.454 or .460 as replacement for rifle?

[flmason]

Hi All.
    Have been thinking about the idea that perhaps a .454 Casull or .460 S&W could encroach on rifle performance territory and perhaps replace one's rifle.

I'm thinking there's some overlap in the energy figures with 45-70 at the very least.

OK, granted, you'll never get .30 cal rifle performance at distance out of it. The caliber is too big, the velocities too low. But I'm thinking out to 150, if you can hold it on target, should be good to go, with the advantage of a much smaller package to tote in the field.

Your thoughts?

[drdougrx]

I think you are correct.  Both cartridges are in the 45/70 arena and should be good to 150.  I'd wonder what you are hunting and what rifle are you looking to use, #1?  Lever?

[flmason]

I think you are correct.  Both cartridges are in the 45/70 arena and should be good to 150.  I'd wonder what you are hunting and what rifle are you looking to use, #1?  Lever?

Actually the thinking was... why bother with 30 cal rifles, even the Handi 45-70 I just bought, etc.  Just get a .460 or .454 and consider the medium to large game situation covered with the plus f being able to drop .45 Colt in for 2 legged hostiles.

Have been Super Blackhawk fan forever, but about a year ago picked up a Super Redhawk... single action trigger on it was way better than a stock Blackhawk... got me to thinking... Hmm... this might be a really mulitpurpose tool in .454...

Have always preferred the portability of a handgun. But short of cut off rifles like a Contender, you still end up giving up the long long shots.

Was also thinking it could be a good replacement in lighter loadings for the AK/AR thing. Although clearly not the same capacity. But, with "assault rifles" becoming un-PC (and massively expensive) was considering alternatives. Lever gun is something I'm considering too. But I just keep thinking... "well a SRH or a S&W .460 covers a lot of ground, in really convenient package".

[kynardsj]

Having owned and shot both calibers I've come to this conclusion, if it can't be killed with a 454 Casull then I don't need to be hunting it anyway. In my opinion 45 LC's are more accurate in it too as it's not as far a jump to the rifling. Kinda like shooting 38's in a 357.

[454Puma]

flmason
Even scoped 150 yards is a LOONG shot with a pistol.  Unless your a very proficient pistol shot. I owned a 454 Casull RH  for a long time and got good enough for about 125 yard shots at deer/elk/bear.  Anything further I was never comfortable to take the shot.    Anything inside 100 yards was toast! Now I just use my Puma 454 !  Give me a good broadside out too 200 yards -no problem! 

[flmason]

flmason
Even scoped 150 yards is a LOONG shot with a pistol.  Unless your a very proficient pistol shot. I owned a 454 Casull RH  for a long time and got good enough for about 125 yard shots at deer/elk/bear.  Anything further I was never comfortable to take the shot.    Anything inside 100 yards was toast! Now I just use my Puma 454 !  Give me a good broadside out too 200 yards -no problem! 

Yes, true on the yardage. It's been many years, but 100 was reasonable for me with a New Model SBH I used to have. Was using 19.5 of 2400 behind an H&G 503 KT cast bullet. I used to keep it sighted dead on at 100, and just figure on 6 o'clock hold for 50 . 

So the thinking here is, why bother with any of the usual "brush guns" in 30-30 or 45-70, 44 mag, etc. just blow the money on the SRH and be done with it. Then unload the 30 cal. battle rifles as well, etc. Basically sounds like out too 100, it could replace any number of rifles.

Have always been more of a handgun person, ever since I was a kid. Like rifles, but they're more to store, handle maintain. Pistols are just more compact, at the expense of the 150 yrd + shots.

So I'm thinking a mininalist battery could be .22 handgun, .454 handgun and a 12 gauge shotgun of some sort since there's not really a good "shot pistol" I don't think.  I could then see some argument for a .22 rifle with scope since, to be effective .22 is really the king of shot placement rounds.

Admittedly though, the list of guns from history I'd like to have runs the gamut from a Brown Bess through things like a Broomhandle Mauser to the latest stuff... you know... it's like women and shoes... LOL!

[toddb1911]

I went through the same thought process a few years ago.  I purchased a PC model with a 12 barrel. It's easier to tote and use in the woods. I carry it with the sling that came with it.  When hunting, I have always used a rest (tree, stump etc..)


The 460 will shoot 45Colt, 454 Casull and the 460.  The factory loaded 460 drops 2" +/- at nearly 200 yards depending on barrel length etc.  I have a Burris Fastfire III on mine and have taken deer at 125 yards without issue. I would not try a longer shot without some magnification.  I reload and have a couple basic loads that I use in 460 brass at all times.  I've found the best loads for my use at 200 and 340 grain projectiles. I have shot 45C and 454's in it a couple times but that's it.  I like knowing that if I needed to purchase off the shelf 45 or 454 ammo to use, I could.

[mcwoodduck]

I will oftern throw a 44 revolver on my hip when small game hunting with a 22 Rifle.  Doubles my chances of  seeing nothing.   
As I stop at different trees and sit listening to the woods for grey squirrels I will pull out the revolver and have had a few deer walk by me. 
But a revolver with practice will give yo uthe ability to make hits on big game out to as far as you cna reasonably hit.  The revolver rounds will make hits further than that if you look at the guys shooting Steel silohuetes out to 200 yards with them. 

[Lloyd Smale]

amen to that. a 150 yard shot is a LONG shot for an expert with a revolver. Way to far for someone that has to ask if its doable. A new handgun hunter should keep it to 50 yards for a few years till he builds up his skills and even then i have a self imposed 100 yard limit with ANY revolver; I might shoot to 150 with a scoped tc but thats about it and ive been doing this for better then 20 years

flmason
Even scoped 150 yards is a LOONG shot with a pistol.  Unless your a very proficient pistol shot. I owned a 454 Casull RH  for a long time and got good enough for about 125 yard shots at deer/elk/bear.  Anything further I was never comfortable to take the shot.    Anything inside 100 yards was toast! Now I just use my Puma 454 !  Give me a good broadside out too 200 yards -no problem! 

[jimster]

150 is too far for me to shoot at game, I played the silhouette game a lot when I was younger, I also used to be able to just sit on my butt against a tree and keep them all in a paper plate all day long at 100 meters with open sighted revolvers, just can't see as good as I used to these days. All my handguns are sighted in at 50 meters and I limit myself to game there, I can still hit the steel pig 9 out of ten times sitting at 100, but truth is they ain't all kill shots either, so I'm not good enough anymore to shoot live animals past 50 with a handgun especially in the field. I'm OK with this though, I know there are lots better shots than me out there, not only my eyes got worse, but I think I may have lost some brain waves and coordination as well which greatly affected my shooting handguns long range.

A new handgun hunter should keep it to 50 yards for a few years till he
builds up his skills

Yep..and I'm an old handgunner that keeps it to 50, problem is I won't be gaining any more skills, I might have to limit myself to 25 meters someday if I keep regressing. 

[flmason]

Agreed, I wouldn't take 150, or even 100 yrd. shot unless I was sure I could stay on target.

[mcwoodduck]

Joining a Silohuette club or going to matches near by and talking to them will get you some new skills on launching a handgun bullet out to 200 yards.
I have a S&W 686 6" silohuette model that has a four position front sight and have hit clay pigeons at 175 yards with it on a regular basis and would think nothing of shooting at a deer at theat distance once I start shooting it agian on a regular basis.  But had to talk to a bunch of silohuette shooters to gain the confidance to even think about trying it and then practicing it when ever I went out to the range. 
I later shot a running deer match wiht the pistol when I tore mussles in my shoulder and could not hold a rifle.  Hitting the deer at 100 yards was not hard, trying to hit the deer on the move was.  But if I make my self shoot that more often I think I could figure out the lead on the moving deer target.  The addition of being able to now use tow hands while shooting it the revolver would help as well.