Author Topic: Handi Chamber Casts (Read 1470 times)

Dinny · « **on:** March 17, 2013, 01:44:12 PM »

It was just recently that I got up the courage to try chamber casting. Now that I did, I find it really easy and rewarding. The instructions in the FAQs were extremely helpful!

Here are my casts of the .356 Win. It has a custom stubbed barrel that was chambered by a known gunsmith (one who I will not name nor recommend)

I measured the length of the chamber from the case head (end) to the edge of the case neck, not including the leade. It is 1.975", which is 0.030" too short. This is the reason I believe the brass has stuck in this chamber. Normally for a reloader this would not present a problem because the brass can be trimmed shorter. However, the free bore before the rifling starts is also too short. I have rifling marks only 0.025" from the front edge of the leade.

My good friend George is going to clean this chamber up with a throating reamer and make it new again. I'm not very please with the quality of work previously performed on this chamber.

Especially considering the price I paid for it.

Here are the casts from my 45LC Handi rifle. This chamber has been rethroated by the same gunsmith. This one appears to be right on!

It has a freebore of 0.230" ahead of the leade and shoots heavy cast bullets really well. The best I can measure, my bore dimensions are 0.448" and 0.455". I'm shooting bullets sized to 0.452", would a slightly larger bullet shoot even better? Say a 0.454" bullet?

Thanks George!!

Thanks, Dinny

Jason F · « **Reply #1 on:** March 17, 2013, 01:52:37 PM »

I size and gas check my 300 grain colt bullets to 454 . They seem to shoot great with no leading. I am using high end jacketed data with no issues.

gendoc · « **Reply #2 on:** March 17, 2013, 02:00:42 PM »

we use wax for chamber casting.

bikerbeans · « **Reply #3 on:** March 17, 2013, 02:07:25 PM »

Dinny,

I think with cast boolits bigger is better, assuming a loaded round will chamber. Any boolit that goes down the barrel will swage down to the bore but there is no guarantee that an undersize boolit will bump up to fit. It would seem to me if you measured .455" then you might need a boolit at least .456", assuming it will fit and chamber.

BB

hoytcanon · « **Reply #4 on:** March 17, 2013, 02:33:00 PM »

I thought you sold the .356?

Dinny · « **Reply #5 on:** March 17, 2013, 02:42:58 PM »

Quote from: hoytcanon on March 17, 2013, 02:33:00 PM

I thought you sold the .356?

I have a deal pending, but the buyer is not a reloader and factory brass has to eject. That's part of the reason for the cast.

Thanks, Dinny

colt1960 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 17, 2013, 02:44:32 PM »

Yes I think you need a bigger bullet. You should alway cast bullets .001 to .002 bigger the the chamber cast checks. .456 to .457 will be what you need.

hoytcanon · « **Reply #7 on:** March 17, 2013, 03:37:52 PM »

Quote from: -Dinny on March 17, 2013, 02:42:58 PM

I have a deal pending, but the buyer is not a reloader and factory brass has to eject. That's part of the reason for the cast.
Thanks, Dinny

Ahhh soooo... it was a very nice set-up... would have jumped on it in another caliber... you offered it at a very reasonable price... nice of you.

Dinny · « **Reply #8 on:** March 17, 2013, 04:46:30 PM »

Stay tuned, up next is my great shooting 357 Maximum. It's already been cast and is looking good. I'll post my results tomorrow.

Thanks, Dinny

Dinny · « **Reply #9 on:** March 18, 2013, 04:28:48 AM »

Here are the chamber casts from a perfectly cut .357 Maximum chamber. I have reason to believe this one may have been cut with the GBO reamer.

Thanks, Dinny

gcrank1 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 18, 2013, 05:40:25 AM »

Pics are worth a thousand words, hey! Thanx for posting them so those unfamiliar can really see what so many of us have been trying to say.
Im pretty sure your 'smith used the reamer specified, as to whether or not it is ground right, well, there it is, clear, plain and simple with your chamber cast. It underscores the admonition for all, experienced or newbies, CHECK: with the source, verify the specs, measure up when you get the reamer (or whatever) and follow the instructions. I agree that the too short chamber throat is your problem (I had similar with a 303 Brit once) and that properly throated it will likely be stellar.
As to the cast dia., the proper throat fit of the bullet via the fully fire-formed case neck is paramount, regardless of the bore/groove dimensions. If, by chance, the largest bullet that will fit such is still too small for the groove dimension (like most H&R 38-55TM's), then throating to take a larger dia. is the solution for conventional fixed ammo reloading. It seems most situations are the opposite, too large a throat for the bore and the size the std. reloading dies size the cases down to. Using 'oversize' cast bullets (oversize as in"compared to the std jacketed bullet dia.") that fill up the throat ensures a straight launch, prevents (or minimizes) base band cutting and is likely to be much more accurate than an 'undersize for throat' bullet.
We have never yet seen a situation where the largest bullet fit to the case has not had better accuracy than an undersize one. YMMV, but do let us know

.

nanuk-O-dah-Nort · « **Reply #11 on:** March 18, 2013, 05:50:19 AM »

delete

quickdtoo · « **Reply #12 on:** March 18, 2013, 01:52:19 PM »

If he cut the chamber shallow with a 358Win reamer then cut the rim recess, it would end up short chambered, or it was just a funky reamer. $:-\$

Tim

Dinny · « **Reply #13 on:** March 18, 2013, 04:09:19 PM »

I have 1.50" to the shoulder. Uncle Steve says it should be 1.560". Neck measures 0.388". Shoulder to case mouth I have 0.475". $:-\$

http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd356winchester.jpg

Thanks, Dinny

bucco921 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 18, 2013, 04:39:45 PM »

I would have to give Mr. ***** a call and have a long talk. Thats a lot of money you forked out for a defective chamber. Hope you get this worked out somehow.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 18, 2013, 05:21:46 PM »

Did that reamer include the rim seat, if so, and it went deeper (to spec for the shoulder) the rim cut would be too deep. This would make the reamer grind suspicious.

Dinny · « **Reply #16 on:** March 18, 2013, 05:38:08 PM »

Quote from: gcrank1 on March 18, 2013, 05:21:46 PM

Did that reamer include the rim seat, if so, and it went deeper (to spec for the shoulder) the rim cut would be too deep. This would make the reamer grind suspicious.

There's no telling. Many gunsmiths use the .358 Win reamer and cut the rim counterbore afterwards. I have no idea if that is how mine was cut.

I just made 2 more .356 casts. I'll compare them all tomorrow.

Thanks, Dinny

nanuk-O-dah-Nort · « **Reply #17 on:** March 18, 2013, 06:47:28 PM »

here are the numbers I found for the .356 Winchester

nanuk-O-dah-Nort · « **Reply #18 on:** March 18, 2013, 06:54:19 PM »

I cannot see Dinny's pics anymore, but IIRC, the throat appears it could match the SAAMI throat.

but the Case "Length to Shoulder" is off a bit. and perhaps the neck as well.. but if anything, it appears long.

hopefully the next casts will show more.

theratdog · « **Reply #19 on:** March 18, 2013, 11:45:33 PM »

it's real hard to find a good gun smith. bad news buddy. good luck with your fix

jeepmann1948 · « **Reply #20 on:** March 18, 2013, 11:57:58 PM »

Where did the pics go?

Dinny · « **Reply #21 on:** March 19, 2013, 04:00:37 AM »

Quote from: jeepmann1948 on March 18, 2013, 11:57:58 PM

Where did the pics go?

Let me check, but I suspect My Hosted Pics may be down. It is down. $:-\$

Thanks, Dinny

quickdtoo · « **Reply #22 on:** March 19, 2013, 04:09:08 AM »

MHP is down because the GPO Space(ads) server is offline because of a power outage. $:-\$

Tim

Dinny · « **Reply #23 on:** March 19, 2013, 04:43:11 AM »

Let's try the attachment method.

Thanks, Dinny

Dinny · « **Reply #24 on:** March 19, 2013, 05:11:16 AM »

Quote from: nanuk-O-dah-Nort on March 18, 2013, 06:54:19 PM

hopefully the next casts will show more.

All three of my casts are identical.

On the last one you can see just how close the rifling is to the leade.

Thanks, Dinny

nanuk-O-dah-Nort · « **Reply #25 on:** March 19, 2013, 06:52:02 AM »

those closeups look different thant the first ones...

I couldn't see the rifling at the neck at all on the first, in fact, I thought you had almost an 1/8 inch there of freebore/taper BEFORE any rifling...

those second pics show NO free area at all.... just straight into the rifling!

AND, it looks to me like it is off center... more rifling on one side at the neck than the other.

Dinny, can you get a good look and confirm that?

DEFINITELY not a SAAMI throat

Dinny · « **Reply #26 on:** March 19, 2013, 08:35:52 AM »

The rifling doesn't start at the same place all the way around. That's probably why it looks different.

Thanks, Dinny

Dinny · « **Reply #27 on:** March 21, 2013, 07:18:14 AM »

I have to admit I'm "Et up with the Yankee Dumbass".

I was measuring from the wrong spot on the chamber cast and didn't include the thickness of the rim in my measurements. The shoulders are the same length, if anything, the chamber is a bit long. The brass is trimmed to 2.00" The gunsmith who performed the work has seen the recent pics of the chamber cast. He has agreed to fix the crooked throat and double check the chamber dimensions.

That still doesn't explain why shortening the brass eliminates brass sticking inside the chamber after it has been fired. $:-\$

Thanks, Dinny

gcrank1 · « **Reply #28 on:** March 21, 2013, 09:24:42 AM »

I just gotta wonder how he is gonna 'fix' a crooked throat?
1) chamber reamer is supposed to be guided in the bore to keep it centered to the bore by a pilot. If an undersize for bore reamer pilot is used the reamer wanderers up there and chamber is off center.
2) if you use a snuggish pilot now to 'true up the alignment' the off center side likely wont be touched (cause its already too deep) while the 'thin' side gets reamed to proper dimension.
3) this will open up the neck/throat clearance, especially for cast bullets which tend to shoot best if oversize compared to the typical size for jacketed, but may not be the size you have been using.
4) It may shoot fine afterwards, and I would give it a chance to prove itself, but I would like to have a detailed explanation of the work intended (and I would consider asking,'what if it dont work').
This is a perfect example of why chamber reaming is so critical and not to be taken lightly (or why one does not run a drill bit in just 'cause it fits).

nanuk-O-dah-Nort · « **Reply #29 on:** March 21, 2013, 09:30:22 AM »

gcrank1 has all the questions nailed pretty good!

howze the base fit into the chamber? sloppy? or nice and tight?

I wonder if the reamer was supported off center.