Author Topic: Why we need 'death panels' (Read 2192 times)

two-blocked · « **on:** March 20, 2013, 07:05:07 PM »

Why we need 'death panels'
http://money.msn.com/investing/why-we-need-death-panels

The fact is, 25% of all Medicare spending goes to the 5% of recipients who die each year --with 80% of that in the last two months of life. This is aggressive spending on things like stays in intensive care and critical care units, which research has shown do not meet the needs and preferences of terminal patients despite its increasing use.
Especially when combined with the growing evidence supporting the benefits of less-expensive, palliative hospice care that allows people to enjoy their last days on this earth in peace at home, not poked, prodded and intubated, floating in and out of consciousness under the fluorescent lights of a $30,000-a-night hospital room.
The popular backlash against death panels gave politicians in Washington reason to fear the topic in general.
But by avoiding the issue, we're choosing to increase the burden on future generations by piling on debt, raising taxes, weakening our defenses, neglecting needed investments and generally damaging the future vitality of the country. This is nothing less than a slow-burn moral disgrace and a reversal of the archetype of parental self-sacrifice and responsibility.

Duke0313 · « **Reply #1 on:** March 20, 2013, 07:31:13 PM »

Are you being serious???

DDZ · « **Reply #2 on:** March 20, 2013, 11:48:07 PM »

Geezz.. now we have liberals trying to justify government killing people. They got unwanted babies out of the way, now its old or sick people. I wonder what class of citizens are next. Christians?, Jews? Blacks?

Dee · « **Reply #3 on:** March 21, 2013, 12:28:55 AM »

I would like to sit on HIS "death panel". I think he's too sick now to fool with. He needs to go to the vet and be put down right a way.

Oldshooter · « **Reply #4 on:** March 21, 2013, 12:49:58 AM »

Ya BUDDY! "Sorry mister WW2 Vet/Korean vet. You are not productive anymore, pay no taxes, and well...you just dont vote for our guys and policies...... go home and get your affairs in order. We have illegall aliens err... uhh... undocumented voters, I mean, supporters waiting for your apartment.

You guys kill US,.......... yea you really do!

cooter74 · « **Reply #5 on:** March 21, 2013, 12:55:15 AM »

two-blocked, I am 74 years old and have throat cancer. I am going in tomorrow for surgery and will be spending some time in the ICU and all that care they are wasting on old wore out folks like me! You may think they should just let me die, but this may let me live a few more years. Of course it may not, but when you get to where I am now be sure you tell them not to waste money on you to just go ahead and put you out of your misery! You are stupid as stupid can be!

tom548 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 21, 2013, 02:45:17 AM »

Maybe we can get then to pass a bill that after 65 the first time you get sick they just put you to sleep. After all they need to save the money in Obama care for the needy wellfare people and at 65 we are of little use to them. We use up the SS money, many are retired and many believe in personal freedom and don't vote for them. We offer nothing.

Brett · « **Reply #7 on:** March 21, 2013, 03:18:08 AM »

Two-Blocked, Hope you will be willing to step up to the gate when the time comes like a good liberal sheep.

But no, you will probably go kicking and screaming... "I don't want to die Doc.!... Treat me, Save me!... I'll pay anything!"

Because that's the way you liberals are. You love to tell the rest of us how we should live... and die but you don't want to play by the same rules you want to impose on the rest of us.

Go take a hike of a pier and save the rest of us tax payers some money before you get old and start collecting SS and Medicare if O's death panel idea is so appealing to you.

RPRNY · « **Reply #8 on:** March 21, 2013, 03:27:36 AM »

I saw that movie: Logan's Run.

Dee · « **Reply #9 on:** March 21, 2013, 04:32:09 AM »

Anybody wanna bet he'll say he was just showin us and really ain't for death panels?

By the way. May God grant you a complete healing on your throat cancer surgery.

wolverine_1 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 21, 2013, 04:33:56 AM »

Should be a personal decison. Had a hard time even deciding to be treated for prostate cancer. Only gave in for my wife's sake. No one should tell you, but we each have a responsiblity to think carefully how much of our children's money we want to spend on our health care (because it is our kids $, because our $ were spent on our parrents). It is a ponzi scheme, and most of us have bought in to it. Peace,

Dee · « **Reply #11 on:** March 21, 2013, 05:00:44 AM »

Quote from: two-blocked on March 20, 2013, 07:05:07 PM

Why we need 'death panels

So lead. By example.

vabeachman · « **Reply #12 on:** March 21, 2013, 05:34:44 AM »

Yes we have death panels in a way already. Had them for decades. Point system used for organ transplantation. The more points you got, better chance of getting an organ transplant. Young people get more points. Of course the connected people get move to the head of the line.

m-g Willy · « **Reply #13 on:** March 21, 2013, 06:00:37 AM »

Quote from: TM7 on March 21, 2013, 04:48:31 AM

There never was death panels...that's a term from the imagination of Frau Palin
..TM7

There never was any death panels ...UNTIL obo-care came into the picture.
What would you call a government panel that decides who and what gets treated?
It use to be the patient and his doctor that decided what is best for themself.
The idiots that bought into the liberal scam can't see this ..until THEY have their life being considered for treatment by some government picked panels.
What I can't wait for is when the rich welfare folks have to give THEIR FAIR SHARE of their food stamps to the illegal mexicans.
The liberal has no idea that tomorrow it may be THEM THAT HAS TO PAY!

two-blocked · « **Reply #14 on:** March 21, 2013, 06:32:25 AM »

Quote from: Dee on March 21, 2013, 05:00:44 AM

Quote from: two-blocked on March 20, 2013, 07:05:07 PM
Why we need 'death panels

So lead. By example.

Rest assured that when the time comes I'm prepared to check out. I've got a great family and have had some awesome adventures. Once the writing is on the wall there's no way I'm going to waste my time and my kid's money in a hospital bed receiving pointless medical procedures.

Letting Go- What should medicine do when it can’t save your life?

Read more: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/02/100802fa_fact_gawande#ixzz2OBzNktVt

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #15 on:** March 21, 2013, 06:50:40 AM »

Hey two blocked , so what they are saying is when you no longer present a profit they cut the support. you agree with them ?

. Lets look at things a different way . I have paid into Govt. programs and Health care plans since 1972 . I contend if that money had been invested better and both insurance and the medical field been better regulated the system would not be broke or going broke. Now you ask me to give up what I should get back on my investment . THAT IS WRONG ! and anyone asking the American public to do so is part of the problem.

ironglow · « **Reply #16 on:** March 21, 2013, 06:58:30 AM »

Obama is always dealing in "green" industries...
Abortion is going in high gear..now the "death panels... Perhaps his next "green" effort be a SOYLENT GREEN canning factory?

Brett · « **Reply #17 on:** March 21, 2013, 07:06:58 AM »

Quote from: two-blocked on March 21, 2013, 06:32:25 AM

Quote from: Dee on March 21, 2013, 05:00:44 AM
Quote from: two-blocked on March 20, 2013, 07:05:07 PM
Why we need 'death panels

So lead. By example.

Rest assured that when the time comes I'm prepared to check out. I've got a great family and have had some awesome adventures. Once the writing is on the wall there's no way I'm going to waste my time and my kid's money in a hospital bed receiving pointless medical procedures.

Letting Go- What should medicine do when it can’t save your life?

Read more: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/02/100802fa_fact_gawande#ixzz2OBzNktVt

And that should be your personal decision not the decision of some government agency.

My dad had several heart attacks the last 10 or so years of his life before he finally passed away of respiratory failure at age 86. Bypass surgeries and medicines gave him an extra 10 years. Those years gave him the opportunity to meat his only grand daughter (my daughter) and gave her the chance to get to know her Grandpa before he passed. I wouldn't trade those years for anything. I hope to live long enough to get to know my grand kids.

two-blocked · « **Reply #18 on:** March 21, 2013, 08:29:09 AM »

It's not about denying your dad surgery. It's about useless expensive procedures for terminal patients.

JonnyReb · « **Reply #19 on:** March 21, 2013, 08:46:29 AM »

I watched several family members get "put down" by hospice. Until I was older I didn't realize what they meant by "making them comfortable". It meant giving them meds that made them quiet while they dehydrated to the point of dying. I think we've had death panels of a sort, for a long time. J

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #20 on:** March 21, 2013, 10:03:03 AM »

Quote from: two-blocked on March 21, 2013, 08:29:09 AM

It's not about denying your dad surgery. It's about useless expensive procedures for terminal patients.

really , so a person pays in all his life and some group decides if he gets a return on his money . It won't be fair never is , look back at the Micky Mantle case the old drunk got the kidney.

two-blocked · « **Reply #21 on:** March 21, 2013, 10:14:34 AM »

"The truth is that as health care costs rise in this broken system, entitlement programs can't keep up. We're overpromising benefits to seniors: The average two-earner couple that retired in 2010 will enjoy $387,000 in Medicare benefits after contributing (assuming a 2% real rate of return) $122,000 in Medicare taxes."

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #22 on:** March 21, 2013, 10:20:44 AM »

Quote from: two-blocked on March 21, 2013, 10:14:34 AM

"The truth is that as health care costs rise in this broken system, entitlement programs can't keep up. We're overpromising benefits to seniors: The average two-earner couple that retired in 2010 will enjoy $387,000 in Medicare benefits after contributing (assuming a 2% real rate of return) $122,000 in Medicare taxes."

So you consider my paying health insurance for 40 years an entitlement ? The trurth is health care regulation and insurance companies cause the health care problems most of the time not the ones paying for it.

BBF · « **Reply #23 on:** March 21, 2013, 10:22:08 AM »

I've got an idea, how about stop invading other countries, that would free up all the money for your HC with $ to spare! That 3 billion a year alone to Israel would go a long way.

PS. Stop all of the foreign aid for that matter and start using your own resources instead of paying for them to foreign countries that really don't like you at all. That will also open up new jobs.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #24 on:** March 21, 2013, 10:27:37 AM »

or shut down the duty free shops on the boarder with Canada

bluedog6 · « **Reply #25 on:** March 21, 2013, 10:37:16 AM »

Human beings are not an economic problem to be solved! In your mis-guided theory, older people are the reason we have an un-balanced budget. Nothing is further from the truth. If the time comes that we allow people to die simply because of economics we are no longer a democracy.
Our society and economic system was built on the backs of these older people that you are suggesting we let die. These people have contributed $300,000 many times over to society. Many constructed buildings, roads, railways, fought wars, and made our infra-structure what it is today, creating billions of dollars for this country. They deserve every chance! By the way, I am not one of them. I am 49.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #26 on:** March 21, 2013, 10:44:26 AM »

You will be one as will the cheer leader for Obama care

.
Good post by the way

ironglow · « **Reply #27 on:** March 21, 2013, 11:15:33 AM »

The "culture war" is clearly shown by the diverse opinions;
A) The first half, believe man is "outlived their usefulness to the "state"..made in the image of God" and is worth trying to help when ill or injured and at least make comfortable when the case is hopeless..

B) The other half seems to believe that since man is only the offspring of an ape, and it is perfectly acceptable to liquidate millions before they are born..and hasten the demise of those which have outlived their usefulness to the "state".

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #28 on:** March 21, 2013, 11:24:50 AM »

I have another idea. How about cutting out all welfare to able bodied people, also cut out all unemployment benefits after 3 months. That should be long enough for someone to find a job. Also, how about cutting out foreign aid except for humanitarian reasons. How about cutting out freebies for ILLEGALs in this country. Then the people might have enough to cover our health care. Some treatments for the elderly can actually help them live longer and less painful. Also, us older guys have paid a ton of taxes over the years, so we want our money back if they are not going to use it for what we were promised. Liberal nuts have not idea.

magooch · « **Reply #29 on:** March 21, 2013, 12:31:33 PM »

From my observation of how doctors and hospitals operate, they don't just willy nilly perform operations and procedures on anyone--let alone old dudes who are on their last legs. Indeed they might keep people on life support until they can be properly evaluated and all those concerned are counseled. But in the normal course of medical practice, a patient must be deemed to have a reasonable chance to survive any surgery, or other procedure. That would be for non-emergency situations.

My neighbor who will be 92 next month has had more than one bout with life threatening problems that nearly killed him, but he got treated and is still quite spry and able to enjoy life. I don't remember exactly what his last problem was about a year ago, but he was on his deathbed with that one, but pulled through. Recently his new doctor gave him some pills to try out and he says he feels like a million bucks. I wonder what those pills are and I wonder where he would be now if he had had to face an Obamacare evaluation board.