Author Topic: Why we need 'death panels' (Read 2190 times)

wolverine_1 · « **Reply #30 on:** March 21, 2013, 12:43:59 PM »

I'll say it again, the money was spent on our parents years ago. So while it is an individual decision, each of us must/should decide whether we want to spend our kids money even before they earn it or not. If we feel "entitled" to the return of/on the money spent on our parents, we will insist on spending our kids money. Otherwise, we have tough choices to make. The rest of it is just nonsense vocalizations.

Dee · « **Reply #31 on:** March 21, 2013, 02:44:07 PM »

Quote from: two-blocked on March 21, 2013, 06:32:25 AM

Quote from: Dee on March 21, 2013, 05:00:44 AM
Quote from: two-blocked on March 20, 2013, 07:05:07 PM
Why we need 'death panels

So lead. By example.

Rest assured that when the time comes I'm prepared to check out. I've got a great family and have had some awesome adventures. Once the writing is on the wall there's no way I'm going to waste my time and my kid's money in a hospital bed receiving pointless medical procedures.

Letting Go- What should medicine do when it can’t save your life?

Read more: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/02/100802fa_fact_gawande#ixzz2OBzNktVt

Now your talkin like YOU'RE gonna decide. The discussion is the "government" decides. You may not think your ready when "they" decide.

Brett · « **Reply #32 on:** March 21, 2013, 04:17:07 PM »

Quote from: two-blocked on March 21, 2013, 08:29:09 AM

It's not about denying your dad surgery. It's about useless expensive procedures for terminal patients.

If dad had not had a quadruple bypass it would have been terminal. You don't think these panels won't look at a 76+ year old heart attack patient and say "Nope, let him croak he isn't worth the money."?

ironglow · « **Reply #33 on:** March 22, 2013, 01:33:56 AM »

My wife's specialists have already warned us..
Look; when the same dollars are forced to pay for 20 people instead of 10..there is less service for each.. BTW..most of those extra 10 are illegal fence-jumpers..
My wife requires a fairly large list of prescriptions to stay alive..we expect denials down the road..
Don't forget, we both worked all our lives, paid into the system and still do...but the Obamanistas pulled $574 Billion from the Medicare we pay into..and transferred into accounts for those who DO NOT pay..

Dee · « **Reply #34 on:** March 22, 2013, 01:57:36 AM »

Many people live their lives in an "idealistic state of mind". Their health is good, their families' likewise. They believe it will never happen to them so they condemn those whom "live in reality". One such person here believes he will live a full, healthy life, and the die. Perhaps he will. But he may contract something like a cancer with a low, but possible survival rate. How will he like it when strangers advise he and his family, "it's not cost effective".

ChungDoQuan · « **Reply #35 on:** March 22, 2013, 02:36:00 AM »

Bypass operations are proven to extend lives--- they're predictable. That's not the same as end stage leukemia. No doctor will tell you the bypass might not work. If you're over 80, no doctor will advise you to go for the bone marrow transplant for leukemia, either--- you just won't survive. There's a difference between a risky procedure and a useless procedure. Most people not employed in health care don't know the difference. Insurance "death panels" decide whether or not to pay based on their own profits. Government "death panels" decide based on whether or not the procedure has a chance of working. by the way, If the feds (BOTH parties) had just left the so-called excess in Medicare and Social Security while the baby boomers were paying into it, there would not be a problem.

Oldshooter · « **Reply #36 on:** March 22, 2013, 02:53:13 AM »

Yes, there are those that think its a logical plan now, or they are toting the party line. Some of this is "in your face" bs anyway. When they find themselves and or families on the receiving end they will squirm.

If you like the postal system you will Love government medical care.

BBF · « **Reply #37 on:** March 22, 2013, 03:53:10 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on March 21, 2013, 10:27:37 AM

or shut down the duty free shops on the boarder with Canada

We got them here on our side as well for US citizen going south.

two-blocked · « **Reply #38 on:** March 22, 2013, 04:41:35 AM »

Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
Albert Einstein

We each have our own

Oldshooter · « **Reply #39 on:** March 22, 2013, 06:37:54 AM »

What if everything is an illusion and nothing exists? In that case, I definitely overpaid for my carpet.
Woody Allen

ironglow · « **Reply #40 on:** March 22, 2013, 07:03:01 AM »

Again; proof that the left again doesn't "get it"... A four way bypass for an octogenarian, would be refused not because it wouldn't work..but because in the estimation of the death panel, It wouldn't be "cost effective"..
Unlike as TM infers, most conservatives do respect what God says and thus value human life (the very image of God) and this value has no commonality with business ventures.
Liberals have shown their "cost effective" bent with the holocaust of the pre-born boys & girls. Most of those obliterated are healthy... but unfortunately either, too inconvenient, unplanned, or too costly and expensive to be allowed to live..53,000,000 to date in the US alone..
...And it is of course, the liberals who believe that human life is ape life, and so are pressing for the death panels... so they can eliminate the aged today, and perhaps the handicapped tomorrow. Maybe in a year or two it will be certain ethnic or religious groups!
Does this whole lefty scene sound eerily familiar ?

Sourdough · « **Reply #41 on:** March 22, 2013, 11:42:05 AM »

I had a by-pass in 2001, and by 2003 it had failed. But due to new technology, they were able to open the stoppages in my heart. My wife, and youngest son, (Who was in elementary school at the time) Have had me around to be with. My Grand kids have had their grandfather for 12 extra years. I'm hoping to be around for another 12 years, maybe longer. I know I'm going to have some more medical procedures, but that is the cost of living longer. I'm going to live as long as I can for those kids, and for myself. There is more predators out there that need shooting. And more guns to collect. I'm headed for the Brooks Range Monday morning.

FPH · « **Reply #42 on:** March 22, 2013, 11:52:40 AM »

In my experience Docs don't know crap. According to 7 of them, I am either dead or a vegtable. I'm now completely indepedant and have no worse chance for another fluke attack than anyone else. The Docs wish they were in as good shape as I am.

Oldshooter · « **Reply #43 on:** March 22, 2013, 02:12:06 PM »

Quote from: Sourdough on March 22, 2013, 11:42:05 AM

I had a by-pass in 2001, and by 2003 it had failed. But due to new technology, they were able to open the stoppages in my heart. My wife, and youngest son, (Who was in elementary school at the time) Have had me around to be with. My Grand kids have had their grandfather for 12 extra years. I'm hoping to be around for another 12 years, maybe longer. I know I'm going to have some more medical procedures, but that is the cost of living longer. I'm going to live as long as I can for those kids, and for myself. There is more predators out there that need shooting. And more guns to collect. I'm headed for the Brooks Range Monday morning.

Thats one of the reasons we dont need Death panels. There are millions!
The gooberment cant pass a budjet or keep one for that matter. ~~I dont think~~ I know they cant manage health care!

ironglow · « **Reply #44 on:** March 22, 2013, 02:18:44 PM »

Quote from: Oldshooter on March 22, 2013, 02:12:06 PM

Quote from: Sourdough on March 22, 2013, 11:42:05 AM
I had a by-pass in 2001, and by 2003 it had failed. But due to new technology, they were able to open the stoppages in my heart. My wife, and youngest son, (Who was in elementary school at the time) Have had me around to be with. My Grand kids have had their grandfather for 12 extra years. I'm hoping to be around for another 12 years, maybe longer. I know I'm going to have some more medical procedures, but that is the cost of living longer. I'm going to live as long as I can for those kids, and for myself. There is more predators out there that need shooting. And more guns to collect. I'm headed for the Brooks Range Monday morning.

Thats one of the reasons we dont need Death panels. There are millions!
The gooberment cant pass a budjet or keep one for that matter. ~~I dont think~~ I know they cant manage health care!

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The lefties can't even control their spending.. They resist passing a budget because that would suggest a final limit each year to their spending..and they can't handle that!

As R. Reagan said about these liberal, big spenders.. he said he would accuse them of spending like drunken sailors, but that would be an insult to drunken sailors.. Because drunken sailors spend THEIR OWN MONEY!!

ChungDoQuan · « **Reply #45 on:** March 23, 2013, 04:58:39 AM »

Can y'all afford your own bypasses out of pocket? How about paying for your own chemotherapy? The far right wants exactly that for you. THAT'S why they don't need "death panels." Under Ryan's plan, you'd just die (unless you're rich)--- no panels needed.

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #46 on:** March 23, 2013, 05:33:40 AM »

CDQ, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. We want our own insurance like we had before Obamacare WITH a few changes. We want choices, across state line ability to buy thus making it more competitive like auto and home owners insurance. We want the government OUT OF OUR LIVES AND OUR PERSONAL FREEDOMS. If the government would quit unnecessary spending, then SS and Medicare would be solvent. We need to cut out foreign aid, cut welfare and limit it to two years max. Cut back on unemployment paychecks to 3-6 months max like it used to be. We need to get our factories back with FAIR trade agreements so people can have jobs that provide insurance like it used to be.

We are going bankrupt as a nation, it is only a matter of time and the Feds will colapse like the old Soviet Union. There will be no benefits for anyone when this happens.

magooch · « **Reply #47 on:** March 23, 2013, 05:42:32 AM »

Quote from: ChungDoQuan on March 23, 2013, 04:58:39 AM

Can y'all afford your own bypasses out of pocket? How about paying for your own chemotherapy? The far right wants exactly that for you. THAT'S why they don't need "death panels." Under Ryan's plan, you'd just die (unless you're rich)--- no panels needed.

Oh goody, I'm not going to die.

BBF · « **Reply #48 on:** March 24, 2013, 03:37:35 AM »

Quote from: Dixie Dude on March 23, 2013, 05:33:40 AM

....
...................................

We are going bankrupt as a nation, it is only a matter of time and the Feds will colapse like the old Soviet Union. There will be no benefits for anyone when this happens.

It turned out pretty good for the Russians after all. They now have a no nonsense leadership, private ownership and regained their pride as a nation.

DDZ · « **Reply #49 on:** March 24, 2013, 05:17:13 AM »

Quote from: TM7 on March 23, 2013, 07:05:58 AM

Quote from: ironglow on March 22, 2013, 07:03:01 AM
Again; proof that the left again doesn't "get it"... A four way bypass for an octogenarian, would be refused not because it wouldn't work..but because in the estimation of the death panel, It wouldn't be "cost effective"..
Unlike as TM infers, most conservatives do respect what God says and thus value human life (the very image of God) and this value has no commonality with business ventures.
Liberals have shown their "cost effective" bent with the holocaust of the pre-born boys & girls. Most of those obliterated are healthy... but unfortunately either, too inconvenient, unplanned, or too costly and expensive to be allowed to live..53,000,000 to date in the US alone..
...And it is of course, the liberals who believe that human life is ape life, and so are pressing for the death panels... so they can eliminate the aged today, and perhaps the handicapped tomorrow. Maybe in a year or two it will be certain ethnic or religious groups!
Does this whole lefty scene sound eerily familiar ?
.
Reframing the discussion and thread in a lefty vs right paradigm again and then wrapping all up in religious/holocaustinaity doctrine doesn't solve the HC problem. And that problem is in a nutshell...social programs funded by a socially collected taxes simply can't keep up with the rising cost modality of the deregulated for-profit HC operations...can't do it. The only thing I inferred is that maximizing profits by corps is a core righty value and as such counts in the HC industry, too, and so stop complaining about it...You got the HC program you deserve...not the one we should have.
.
.
..TM7

Do you really think that any government sponsored HC would be good for us, whether it was given to us by Republicans or Democrats? Remember, Government isn't offering us HC out of the goodness of their hearts for we the people. As long as government gets to be rulers over us, and maintain their lavish salaries, and benefits. They could give a rats a** about our well being.
Its always the perception that anything government gives us is good, and that they are doing it just for us. Nothing could be further from the truth. For years the government has been keeping people ignorant, through their involvement in our education system. It shows when we have people applauding the introduction of government health care.

CDQ, you seam to be under the impression that government will have this crack medical team making decisions on who gets HC and who doesn't, with no outside influence, and based on the best interests of that person and the family. All its going to be are some bureaucrats making that decision based on money, period. If you are retired and need HC to live a few more years, do you really think the bureaucrats are going to spend any money on you, so you can live a few more years?

powderman · « **Reply #50 on:** March 24, 2013, 05:34:11 AM »

Quote from: DDZ on March 20, 2013, 11:48:07 PM

Geezz.. now we have liberals trying to justify government killing people. They got unwanted babies out of the way, now its old or sick people. I wonder what class of citizens are next. Christians?, Jews? Blacks?

DDZ. YEP, typical libbydem crappola. POWDERMAN.

Dee · « **Reply #51 on:** March 24, 2013, 06:03:27 AM »

I think the difference between the two sides here, makes it clear why there was several years ago, a NORTH & SOUTH. While I am not a proponent of war for political reasons, this one might warrant another fight, with hopefully a different outcome.
I am old and being brought up in the South still revel when I hear Dixie played the way it used to be played, and stop at cemeteries when the Daughters of the Confederacy are "re-dedicating" a newly found Confederate grave here where I live.
It would be refreshing to know that liberalism was back up north where it belongs.

powderman · « **Reply #52 on:** March 24, 2013, 07:29:08 AM »

Quote

It would be refreshing to know that liberalism was back up north where it belongs.

DEE. Unfortunately the liberal sickness has infected the entire nation. Sad. POWDERMAN.

Dee · « **Reply #53 on:** March 24, 2013, 07:55:44 AM »

Perhaps an armed discussion as some call for is what it will take. I would hope not, but it seems that America as I "knew it" has drifted badly off course, and I along with many others have to help pay for something, or things, that I strongly disagree with.

ironglow · « **Reply #54 on:** March 24, 2013, 08:37:57 AM »

Quote from: BBF on March 24, 2013, 03:37:35 AM

Quote from: Dixie Dude on March 23, 2013, 05:33:40 AM
....
...................................

We are going bankrupt as a nation, it is only a matter of time and the Feds will colapse like the old Soviet Union. There will be no benefits for anyone when this happens.

It turned out pretty good for the Russians after all. They now have a no nonsense leadership, private ownership and regained their pride as a nation.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
BBF: Does this mean you endorse Putin's efforts to bring the people back under a communist yoke?
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Dee;
Even up north, the liberals are gathered in the big cities. Oh yes, even out where I live, we have 1 or 2 liberal idiots here or there....
They just don't run around in such big bunches as they do in the cities!

blind ear · « **Reply #55 on:** March 25, 2013, 04:46:23 AM »

It isn't the old people we need to worry about. It is the population increase. when any bio system begins to pass a certain level mass dieoffs will happen. Regardless of cause. No bio system will sustain populations much over 85% of maximum capacity.
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It isn't a matter of if it will happen, it is a matter of "if we will plan" our future. Agenda 21 thinking comes into play. The big catch is will we plan the future or will some other party make the decisions as to how the future will be guided? As a society we don't seem to be doing a very good job of controlling our state of freedom for now or the future. There are those that plan to decide the future. Whose genes will carry on and which ones will cease to be. ear