Russian Carronade

[rivercat]

The Gun on the left is described as a Russian carronade in the inventory supplied with the gun.
However if this is correct it looks unlike any carronade seen, this does not mean that it is not a carronade but the point is worthy of note.
It does seem to be Eastern European, possibly Russian as there is a twin for this gun in the cloisters in Riga, the capital of Latvia.
When this latter gun was seen in 2004 it was noticed that it had wear marks around the trunnions, which were thought to have been caused by the mount used.
At this time it was thought to have been a yoke fitting similar to those used on some swivel guns as the gun was fitted with a tiller for aiming.
Our gun has the same marks as this and on close inspection the remains of a broken tiller.
Very similar to swivels were Wall Guns, large muskets and in this case small guns mounted on fortress walls for close range anti personnel defence, in much the same way as small carronades were used and it is thought this is probably one of these.
This gun is a 4pdr of 4ft 6 inches in length, a little long for a carronade of the same calibre and came into the collection in 2009.
Now any guesses for the one one the right??

[steelcharge]

I believe too this is a Russian swivel gun (the left one) and most likely was captured during the Crimean War.
There are period photos of a "flanking battery", in one of the Sevastopol redoubts, mounting 3 or 4 swivels that look very similar to this gun, though the photos I've seen arent clear enough for 100% certain identification.

Also, the small booklet "The Robert Abels catalogue of the Howard K. Brown cannon collection" list another gun like this in it, on page 8: "Heavy iron howitzer...has a 3in bore..marked "M.A." at breech...Overall 35 1/4in".

If you could get a nice sideview photo of the tube, that would be great!

[A.Roads]

Isn't the one on the right a commercial carronade? (having trunnions Americans would call it a gunnade)
 
If the one on the left, a 4 pr, was mounted as a swivel it would be punishing on its mounting.
 
Adrian

[steelcharge]

If the one on the left, a 4 pr, was mounted as a swivel it would be punishing on its mounting.

I'm 99% sure it was.
Here's link to russian forum about the Siege of Sevastopol, if you use your web-browsers search function, type in "battery flanking ditch" and it will take you to the photo of a 3-swivel battery I mentioned earlier. If for some odd reason your web browser doesn't have a search-function, just scroll down the first post and find the photo numbered 59 (there are MANY photos).
http://forum.sevastopol.info/viewtopic.php?p=7769058

The swedish and norwegians also had some swivels they designated as "3-pdr" but with ca 8cm (about 3.2") bores, I guess they could also be classed as 4-pounders. I don't know if the russian one is chambered, but the swedish/norwegian ones atleast had conical chambers.

[Cannoneer]

Isn't the one on the right a commercial carronade? (having trunnions Americans would call it a gunnade)
 
If the one on the left, a 4 pr, was mounted as a swivel it would be punishing on its mounting.
 
Adrian

Hi Adrian,
I'm an American, and I wouldn't call it a gunnade. I use the term gunnade to describe an economic, short, thin walled, straight bore cannon, that displays some of the outward design features of carronades.   

[A.Roads]

Hi Cannoneer, my apologies it was a generalisation & as such can never be 100% all encompassing. However the barrel I refer to, the one on the right, I would describe as economic, short, thin walled (presumably), straight bore (presumably) & displaying most of the outward features of a carronade.  Adrian

[Cannoneer]

Thanks Adrian, but I think that you'd be the last person here that should ever feel a need to apologize to me, or indeed, any other member here that I can think of.

If the reddish painted barrel on the right doesn't have a reduced powder chamber, then I'd refer to it as a gunnade. If it did have a reduced powder chamber, then I would call it a carronade with trunnions. 

[rivercat]

Hi All,
Well at the moment we can confirm that it is Russian there is a dispute at the moment as to wether it is a Crimean war trophy and I will let you know when we have worked out the calibre.

[steelcharge]

Hi All,
Well at the moment we can confirm that it is Russian there is a dispute at the moment as to wether it is a Crimean war trophy and I will let you know when we have worked out the calibre.

I've seen one of these auctioned sometime ago (few years probably) that had a tag saying something like "Taken in Sevastopol", and because the photo of a swivel gun battery in Sevastopol shows guns like this, I'm quite sure it's a Crimean War trophy. Of course it's also possible to have come some other route, but that seems to me the most likely way.

I'll see if I can find more about the one that was auctioned "sometime somewhere".
Also I'd still like to see some more photos of this russian gun, if you can get them.

EDIT: Found the auction info much faster than I thought.
http://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/asp/fullCatalogue.asp?salelot=A1058++++612+&refno=+++52901&saletype=

[rivercat]