How to cure the ammo shortage

[guzzijohn]

I bet there would be plenty of ammo at fairly reasonable prices if everyone would quit buying until things became reasonable again. It sounds like most here have plenty of ammo to survive for awhile. If we boycotted buying ammo it would probably take less than three months for things to turn to relative normal.
GuzziJohn

[bulletstuffer]

GWB...miss me yet.  Low ammo prices, low gas prices, people working, people making money, economy humming, gun grabbers were in hiding.  Lose the people trying to take our freedoms and things will settle down then.


Cause and effect!


Bulletstuffer

[guzzijohn]

Miss GWB, hardly. Anyway, it was Sandyhook more than the Obama administration. Sandyhook was the last straw for may people, right or wrong. We would be pretty much in the same boat we are now regardless of who would be president.
GuzziJohn

[JonnyReb]

Miss GWB, hardly. Anyway, it was Sandyhook more than the Obama administration. Sandyhook was the last straw for may people, right or wrong. We would be pretty much in the same boat we are now regardless of who would be president.
GuzziJohn

 It was more like the obama administration, and the liberal RESPONSE to Sandy Hook. Sandy Hook itself wasn't the reason.  J

[guzzijohn]

And you would have expected a different liberal response if Romney had been president? What have you all been smoking?
GuzziJohn

[JonnyReb]

If I remember correctly how upset you got when you heard the state might drug test your "mom" before continuing benefit payouts,, i'd say I'm not smoking what your smoking. 

 No i'd never expect anything different from the libs, just that they've been let from their cages recently and are running wild. Mitt has nothing to do with this.  J

[Dixie Dude]

Wish we could get a good "Common Sense" party.  The issue is mental illness, not the weapons or magazine capacity.  Less than 3% of gun crime is with rifles and less than 0.5% is with so called "assault weapons".  58% is with handguns one at a time and 75% of all murders in the US are in 4 cities of Chicago, New York, LA, and Washington DC.  Anyone who is diagnosed by a doctor as being schizophrenic or bi-polar should have the local sheriff notified of this person to be put on a gun ban list or at least a waiting list with investigation as to why they need a gun.  This would have prevented the Va Tech and the latest Colorado shootings.  Anyone on mind altering drugs should also be put on the list.  Now, I think if a normal person is put on some type these drugs, maybe they should be put on the list temporarily, but removed when they quit taking them.  Also, I think non-violent persons who have committed a felony, and have served their time, shouldn't be not allowed to have a weapon, like an embezzeler or someone like that.  Also if a person is in a divorce and put on a restraint order, once the divorce is over and say 5 years have elapsed, and or the guy remarries, he should be removed from a ban list.  Fair is fair. 

[lefty_red]

Hmmm, mind altering drugs like anti-depressants or anti-anxiety meds?  That would mean 80% of law enforcement/correcttions officers would have their guns pulled.
 
Don't know if I would want a state doctor to decide if I should have a weapon or not beause I am in a high stress career field.

[Anna]

A lot of the lib generated problems with a restraining order is that it can be done on the grounds
of one persons story alone ! With no other proof than that I see it all the time .
When there is nothing wrong with the guy it was just her word alone that got him arrested .
Several cases were from cheating wives who got mixed up in abuse elsewhere then blamed the husband after he found out and left her !
No matter LE threw him in jail and some judge ordered a psychological evaluation on him and for
what One case I had the guy wasnt even there and had an air tight alibi .
No matter once he was in the system, he was guilty until proven innocent and his guns were confiscated . She said he did it and that's all there was to it even if he was 150 miles away on a
drilling rig !  I've had women use this kind of stuff on some poor single guy when all he did was
dance with her at a honky tonk . She got his name , said he did it , then tried to extort money from
him to drop her charges ! To the law he is still guilty of something, they say it was the seriousness
of the allegation . I could just call the police and say some guy who I wanted revenge on for any reason. Hit me and I can guarantee the police will make his life a living hell for the next 48 hours .
Including confiscating his guns whether he is married or not and the wife covered his story he is
still going to jail .


What ever happened to the law of falsifying a police report ? I guess that only applys to men in
cases like this !    My point is , the entire restraining order deal has become a one sided affair
and can falsely cause you to lose your 2nd amendment rights or including owning any ammo .

[Awf Hand]

I'm not sure how the thread got hikacked into a restraining order topic...
 
Current demand for ammo is unprecendented.  A friend at Hodgdon said they are running three shifts a day, seven days a week.  I contacted Federal Ammunition of Anoka, MN to check on availablity of the target, match and UM .22rf early this week.  There are some of the product lines that they do ONE run of per year and ship it to distributors.  From there it goes to stores where people buy it up for ...?  Just to have?  Shooting at beer cans?  I don't know...  The shelves will not be filled with some of these products any time soon, as they have switched their production to the products for which they see higher demand.  They're shipping those out as fast as they can.  Adding production capacity is risky, as the demand could subside.
 
On the sales/consumer end of things, I contacted our local large sporting goods store.  They receive shipments of ammo DAILY.  They don't even bother to shelve the ammo anymore until the mobs have left, and the less common calibers are all that are remaining.  Every morning they pull a pallet on to the floor and it becomes a door buster for the first 2 hours as people fight to get their boxes.  I bet none of them are dealers that will take their purchases to the weekend gun shows to resell.
 
I suspect many of the cailbers sold that are more likely be used in semi-automatics, .223 especially, are in higher demand as folks will blow off a hundred or two on a range visit.
 
Much like the panic that ensued with gasoline on the afternoon of Sept 11th, 2001, people are immediately buying what they feel will be a precious commodity and buying what they think they may never buy again.  My fear is that this will "bend" the prices of ammunition upward and .22rf that once sold for 2$/50 will stay higher until supplies are fully restocked along the full distribution chain.  I also fear that the quality may go down as the production equipment is run longer between service shutdowns.  Some folks are just happy to hear the bang and consider their 1" fifty-yard groups "tackdriving", but I'm not doing any 50BR with my .22 until I know I can get quality product.
 
People just need to calm the hell down. 

[james]

I refuse to play the scare game.   I have bought one pistol and a couple boxes of ammo at Academy Sports but it cost no more than it would have a year ago.   I have plenty of guns and ammo so I will wait it out.   I would like some more 4198 powder for 50 gr pdog loads but I can reload Varget and 55 gr bullets which work almost as good in my .223s.   I expect in a year there will be a lot of ARs and ammo on the market.   When there is an ice storm or hurricane, generators can't be found.  Wait a year and you can find them for half price.

[Dixie Dude]

Lots of different powders can work in 223.  4198, 2015, 3031, Benchmark, AA2230, 4895, H335, BLC(2), AA2460, 748, 4064, Vargent, 4320.  These are with a 55gr bullet.  I have used 3 different powders with good results.  Powders aren't the problem.  Even bullets and brass aren't a problem.  Primers are the problem shortage right now. 

[Sourdough]

DixieDude:  No so here in Alaska.  We can not get Primers, Powder, or Empty cases.  Bullets, we got loads of bullets, but without the other three you can't load much.

[hillbill]

its not my fault. i havent purchased anything but a couple hunnert primers.

[FPH]

Here in NM the shelves are bare of reloading supplies and most all loaded shells. You better shoot .270, 300 mag,  .17 HMR or you are out of luck.

[Ranger99]

some of this is like saying for
the masses not to camp out in
line for the newest and shiniest
smartphone or the most up-to-date
version of a video game.
greed, jealousy, and covetousness
are all 21st century standards.


got to keep up with the jones's
at all costs! ! ! !

[flintlock]

I'm not a hoarder but I do have about 12 boxes of bullets for my deer rifle so at 57 I can make that last the rest of my life...
 
I'm glad I'm a muzzleloader as I can melt lead for balls for both my .54 and my .40 and at 25-30 grs a shot for the .40 a pound of powder can go a long ways...I have plent of flints, and they are still in good supply so I will have something to shoot...Two of the deer I killed this year were killed with the flintlock and two more were killed with the .243...I don't need more than 2-3 deer a year anymore so I'll just stop giving away...Kinda like charity, with taxes and gas prices going up there are some charities that I simply can't afford to give to anymore...Heck, let BO take care of them, seems that's his agenda anyway...
 
For my inline, I have a few hundred bullets and a couple of hundred sabots and primers...So like many, I'm going to sit back, use my ammo to keep the freezer full and possibly fish more...I too don't plan to pay stupid prices just to shoot a .22...

[mcwoodduck]

I bet there would be plenty of ammo at fairly reasonable prices if everyone would quit buying until things became reasonable again. It sounds like most here have plenty of ammo to survive for awhile. If we boycotted buying ammo it would probably take less than three months for things to turn to relative normal.
GuzziJohn

Boycotting does not work.  If we ar not demanding ammo at higher prices than what the government is willing to pay the ammo people will just sell it to the government to fill the Homeland Security PO's   You may by boycotting cause more shortages as alll of the production will go to Gv't  POs instead of getting 40% into the civilian hands. And you will help Obama and Holder in keeping ammo out of our hands.  Guns are really akward baseball bats with out ammo.

[guzzijohn]

Quote from mcwoodduck:
"Boycotting does not work.  If we ar not demanding ammo at higher prices than what the government is willing to pay the ammo people will just sell it to the government to fill the Homeland Security PO's   You may by boycotting cause more shortages as alll of the production will go to Gv't  POs instead of getting 40% into the civilian hands. And you will help Obama and Holder in keeping ammo out of our hands.  Guns are really akward baseball bats with out ammo."


I disagree. Your statement is only possibly correct if government buying is causing the shortage. I still firmly believe that it is gun owner hoarding that is the primary problem, not government buying.
GuzziJohn

[magooch]

I'm not so sure that government orders are not at least partially responsible for shortages.  Even though the government might only be ordering 9mm and 223, if production of other calibers are curtailed in order to accommodate the government orders....  I'm just saying that I don't believe there has been an adequate explanation for the very large government orders.


Anyway, I can wait it out.  I've got enough to last me unless we go into full rebellion and even then I'm not going to worry; the libs aren't likely to be armed all that well anyway.

[mcwoodduck]

Quote from mcwoodduck:
"Boycotting does not work.  If we ar not demanding ammo at higher prices than what the government is willing to pay the ammo people will just sell it to the government to fill the Homeland Security PO's   You may by boycotting cause more shortages as alll of the production will go to Gv't  POs instead of getting 40% into the civilian hands. And you will help Obama and Holder in keeping ammo out of our hands.  Guns are really akward baseball bats with out ammo."


I disagree. Your statement is only possibly correct if government buying is causing the shortage. I still firmly believe that it is gun owner hoarding that is the primary problem, not government buying.
GuzziJohn

I think it is a combination of the two,
I would call it panic buying rather than hoarding.  But you hate your fellow humans and their nature.    Many of my friends that plan to go shooting and buy a box or two shoot them all at the range and do not have any in reserves for target shooting.   After missing a few shoots they are now in buying mode to get stuff so they can go out and shoot.   But by not buying the ammo makers have a place to sell the ammo.  Afterall if you had something people wanted and then half of them said they were not going to buy you would just seel it to the other group.  You also have the horders that are selling ammo back to gun shops to meet demand.   I have thought of selling a couple of bricks of 22 and a pack of 223 to one guy that offered me $1,000 for the 500 rounds that I paid $300 for.  But realized it was tempting but I would not have it for 3 gun matches and military rifle shoots. 

[mcwoodduck]

I'm not so sure that government orders are not at least partially responsible for shortages.  Even though the government might only be ordering 9mm and 223, if production of other calibers are curtailed in order to accommodate the government orders....  I'm just saying that I don't believe there has been an adequate explanation for the very large government orders.


Anyway, I can wait it out.  I've got enough to last me unless we go into full rebellion and even then I'm not going to worry; the libs aren't likely to be armed all that well anyway.

The Homeland POs are not just 9mm and 223.  They are strange because they are not calling out for a specific load they are calling for everyting in the 9mm range , JHP, FMJ 115, 124, and 147 grain projectiles, the same wiht the 223 they are going from 45 grain to 70 grain and soft point, hollow point and FMJ.  But they are also calling for 357 mag, 40 S&W, 45 ACP, 38Special, 380, 308, 30-06, 12 ga of buck, slugs and bird shot in 1oz and 1 1/8oz at a variety of speeds. 
If you look at most police or federal agency POs for ammo it is a single loading of the caliber, so your local police issues 9mm and they will buy 9mm 147 grain Hollow points to be used in the side arm as well as any SMG the department also fields, the 12 ga ammo for the shotguns will be a specific load for general use and then specific ammo like bean bags, tazers, or rubber bullets. 
The 223 ammo is going to be what is issued.  Departments no longer use target ammo, they practice with what they carry.    So is Home land telling us that they have each local office being issued a different side arme wiht a different loading?  Some will get 357 wheel guns and they will be issuing 158 grain and 125 grain ammo to the different groups?  If so didn't the US learn with the Issue of the Colt SAA and the S&W Schofield and the different ammo problems of sending the longer colt ammo to the S&W armed troops?

[Empty Quiver]

Were Dear Leader and his Toadies to shut their pie holes about guns, this ammo thing would clear right up.


It is really that simple. Give Wayne LaPiere the remote to a shock collar placed on the Democrat leadership and this crap would cease.

[powderman]

I disagree. Your statement is only possibly correct if government buying is causing the shortage. I still firmly believe that it is gun owner hoarding that is the primary problem, not government buying.
GuzziJohn

 
All this is clearly because of your beloved hussein and his liberal toadies. If there was no hussein and his anti gunn followers there would be NO ammo shortages. And YES, I believe a lot of it is due to obummers dhs huge stockpiling of arms and ammo. Folks are seeing him and dhs for the real threat that they are, all but you and the other liberal democrats of course. POWDERMAN. 

[nw_hunter]

I bet there would be plenty of ammo at fairly reasonable prices if everyone would quit buying until things became reasonable again. It sounds like most here have plenty of ammo to survive for awhile. If we boycotted buying ammo it would probably take less than three months for things to turn to relative normal.
GuzziJohn

How are you going to buy the product.........Ammo, Powder, Primers and such, when the product isn't on the shelf? The retailers are not getting close to the same quota they did before the Department Of Homeland Security exercised their buying frenzy.

The gun owner cannot horde something that isn't there Guzz

[mechanic]

Hoarding may have been a factor at the first, but I disbelieve it now.  If hoarding were to blame, the retailers would still be getting ammo to sell to the hoarders.  If they are not getting ammo, where is it going?  If mfgs. are working 24/7 someone is getting ammo.  Local Walmart says they are getting a fraction of what they got last year.  Local gun shop says he has not gotten his stock order at all.  He can't sell to hoarders..he doesn't have anything to sell.
 
Local PD has not received ammo shipments...in danger of curtailing all practice..
 
Ben

[wganz]

Miss GWB, hardly. Anyway, it was Sandyhook more than the Obama administration. Sandyhook was the last straw for may people, right or wrong. We would be pretty much in the same boat we are now regardless of who would be president.
GuzziJohn

All this was preplanned and canned as a response to the outrage that was suppose to be generated from the various Fast & Furious operations. Just that Eric Holder failed to deliver and got exposed in committee hearings and Adam Lanza did his atrocity that gave the 0bama administration the green light for this circus. What you're seeing is the end result of community organizing on a national scale.

[powderman]

Hoarding may have been a factor at the first, but I disbelieve it now.  If hoarding were to blame, the retailers would still be getting ammo to sell to the hoarders.  If they are not getting ammo, where is it going?  If mfgs. are working 24/7 someone is getting ammo.  Local Walmart says they are getting a fraction of what they got last year.  Local gun shop says he has not gotten his stock order at all.  He can't sell to hoarders..he doesn't have anything to sell.
 
Local PD has not received ammo shipments...in danger of curtailing all practice..
 
Ben

 
BEN. Agreed Sir. I believe the feds are controlling a lot more than we know about. I put NOTHING past hussein and his disciples, or his dhs. POWDERMAN. 

[Oldshooter]

Miss GWB, hardly. Anyway, it was Sandyhook more than the Obama administration. Sandyhook was the last straw for may people, right or wrong. We would be pretty much in the same boat we are now regardless of who would be president.
GuzziJohn

BS, I'll not buy into that. No such thing happened after columbine.Slick willy didn't get stupid. columbine happened in 99, Seems to me there was a assault weapon ban then. that one started in 94 Didn't seem to work then.
 
Everyone will miss "W" before this is over..... everyone.