Author Topic: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(  (Read 1740 times)

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Offline two-blocked

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High gas prices persist despite US oil boom
 
The U.S. is increasing its oil production faster than ever, and American  drivers are guzzling less gas. But you'd never know it from the price at the  pump.
 
The national average price of gasoline is $3.69 per gallon and forecast to  creep higher, possibly approaching $4 by May.
 
"I just don't get it," says Steve Laffoon, a part-time mental health worker,  who recently paid $3.59 per gallon to fill up in St. Louis.
 
U.S. oil output rose 14 percent to 6.5 million barrels per day last year — a  record increase. By 2020, the nation is forecast to overtake Saudi Arabia as the  world's largest crude oil producer. At the same time, U.S. gasoline demand has  fallen to 8.7 million barrels a day, its lowest level since 2001, as people  switch to more fuel-efficient cars.
 
So is the high price of gasoline a signal that markets aren't working  properly?
 
Not at all, experts say. The laws of supply and demand are working, just not  in the way U.S. drivers want them to.
 
U.S. drivers are competing with drivers worldwide for every gallon of  gasoline. As the developing economies of Asia and Latin America expand, their  energy consumption is rising, which puts pressure on fuel supplies and prices  everywhere else.
 
The U.S. still consumes more oil than any other country, but demand is weak  and imports are falling. That leaves China, which overtook the U.S. late last  year as the world's largest oil importer, as the single biggest influence on  global demand for fuels. China's consumption has risen 28 percent in five years,  to 10.2 million barrels per day last year.
 
"There's an 800-pound gorilla in the picture now — the Chinese economy," says  Patrick DeHaan, chief petroleum analyst at the price-tracking service  GasBuddy.com.
 
U.S. refiners are free to sell gasoline and diesel to the highest bidder  around the world. In 2011, the U.S. became a net exporter of fuels for the first  time in 60 years. Mexico and Canada are the two biggest destinations for U.S.  fuels, followed by Brazil and the Netherlands.
 
Two other factors are making gasoline expensive:
 
— High oil prices. Brent crude, a benchmark used to set the price of oil for  many U.S. refiners, is $108 per barrel. It hasn't been below $100 per barrel  since July. On average, the price of crude is responsible for two-thirds of the  price of gasoline, according to the Energy Department.
 
— Refinery shutdowns. Refineries temporarily close in the winter, when  driving declines, to perform annual maintenance. That lowers gasoline  inventories and sends prices higher nearly every year in the late winter and  spring.
 
Rising gasoline prices act as a drag on the economy because they leave less  money in drivers' wallets to spend on other things. But because average prices  have remained in a consistent range — between $3 and $4 per gallon since the end  of 2010 — economists say their effect on growth has been minimal.
 
Drivers in Connecticut, New York and Washington, D.C., are paying $3.92 or  more per gallon on average, according to the Oil Price Information Service.  Drivers in Rocky Mountain states, where refineries can tap low-priced crude from  the U.S. and Canada, are paying far less. Gas costs $3.42 or less in Wyoming,  Utah and Montana.
 
For the year, prices are forecast to average $3.55 per gallon, slightly lower  than last year's record average of $3.63. The peak for 2013, likely to come this  spring, is expected to fall slightly short of last year's peak of $3.94.
 
A major reason cited for high gasoline prices over the last two years —  fighting and political tensions in the Middle East and North Africa — doesn't  apply this year. Libyan production has returned after collapsing during the  country's revolution two years ago. And higher production from the U.S. and  Saudi Arabia has made up for Iran's declining output in the face of Western  sanctions.
 
David Haeussermann, a police dispatcher in Tampa who recently paid $3.56 per  gallon to fill his Kia Rondo, hasn't had a raise in six years. He says higher  prices for gasoline and food in recent years have prompted him to cut back on  dinners out and to settle for less fancy food at home. He doesn't understand why  gasoline costs so much, but by now he's used to it.
 
"Three-dollar gas seems to be a dream right now," he says.
 
The good news is that the national average price is 15 cents lower than last  year at this time, because of slightly lower oil prices and less concern over  the situation in the Middle East. But disruptions at refineries or pipelines, or  threats to oil supplies around the world, could send gasoline prices sharply  higher at any moment, analysts say.
 
Lafoon, the St. Louis man, consolidates trips and drives as little as  possible to blunt the effect of high prices. And he never fills all the way up.  It is an exercise in what he calls "magical thinking" — that prices aren't  really what they are.
 
Hey, it's worth a try.
 
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/high-gas-prices-persist-despite-us-oil-boom-1C9007042

Offline vabeachman

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2013, 02:10:10 AM »
American oil for Americans.  We subsidize the energy industry.  Oil get shipped to China.  We subsidize China.  The energy industries should be run like public utilities.  Energy is a national security matter.  Why help a competitor produce lower price goods?
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Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2013, 02:59:50 AM »
If you remember and read the real news.  We are NOT drilling in the gulf since the oil spill.  Obama and the EPA stopped it.  He also suspended drilling on leased government land.  He also stopped the pipeline from North Dakota to Oklahoma, not for real environmental reasons, but so his friend Warren Buffet who owns the northern railroads can ship the old in every tank car he could get his hands on, and there is also a lot of trucking also.  He also stopped any further drilling in Alaska.  Ask the guys who live in Alaska on this forum.  However, they can't get the oil out fast enough, thus the reason for the pipeline. 
 
We are also having high inflation, like around 12% real inflation of commodities, but the current administration does not include fuel and food prices since they are "too volitile" to be included in the "core inflation rate".  Yet we all have to buy fuel and food.  If figured by 1980 standards which included food and fuel, the inflation rate would be running about 12% a year the last 4 years.  So oil is only running with inflation.  Check what you paid for a lb of hamburger 4 years ago vs today.  How about a loaf of bread?  Get real.  We are having inflation.  Look at the cost of ammo and components since copper and lead prices have gone up. 
 
People worldwide are abandoning the dollar as the worlds currency and switching to gold, silver, copper, and metals.  Russia, China, and India have all bought tons of gold, along with Germany.  They are slowly going back to the gold standard.  Our economy is going to crash and crash big time and our government will be bankrupt and not able to pay back it's debt.  One day there will be no Obamacare, no social security, no welfare, only riots, and starving people.  Wake up people, especially liberals.  This all started when Nixon got away from the gold standard in 1974 thus causing high inflation to begin with.  Then Bush jr overspent, and Obama made it worse. 

Offline vabeachman

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2013, 10:11:24 AM »
We have almost twice as many drilling rigs in on land in the USA than the rest of the world has combined.  I have property in the Marcellus Shale formation.  So far have 6 natural gas well with 7, 8, and 9 going in soon.
The energy companies sent in LANDMEN years before they plan to actually plan to drill and get leases on all the land.  The energy companies have more productive areas to drill in than they can really drill.  They play games and trade/sell the leases among themselves.  As America produces more energy it only helps the Chinese.  It doesn't help Americans.  Need to treat the energy companies like public utilities or nationalize them. We are helping our competitors beat us.  We are now energy independent and could easily have another industrial/manufacturing revolution if we did not subsidize China, India, through energy company subsidy's.
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Offline Val

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2013, 11:15:53 AM »
Another significant impact is the huges amounts of money that Obama is printing. We pay much more for foreign goods because the dollar is devalued. The printing of money in such huge quantities also accelerates inflation since we pay for goods with deflated money.
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2013, 11:24:58 AM »
The oil we are producing goes out on the open market once it is refined.  China, India, and the rest of the world are bidding on it.  That is why the price is not going down.  The second half of Sarah Palin's statement about "Drill Baby Drill" was "And keep it here for America's use".  That part got forgotten. 

OK someone says we are drilling more than before, I don't think so.  All drilling has been stopped on Federal Lands.  The North Dakota drilling is on Private lands, so BLM can't stop that.  Drilling in Alaska, except in Cook Inlet, has stopped.  The Alaska Pipeline is running 1/3rd full at the moment.  With oil production falling at Phrudue Bay it will soon go dry.  Once that happens the pipeline must be removed by Law.  That will make all the oil on the North Slope of Alaska too expensive to bother with.  Yet we have more Oil on the North Slope than Saudi had.

You guys are complaining, here we sit on all that oil and we are paying $3.99 a gallon for Gas and $3.80 for Fuel Oil to heat our homes.  Diesel is around $4.25.  And our population is leaving the Interior of Alaska.  People are moving to Anchorage or out of state.  They just can not afford to live here anymore.   
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
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Offline vabeachman

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2013, 11:52:28 AM »
Almost half of  drilling rigs in US  are now in Texas.  Apparently found some new fields, plus it is close to the refineries.  Driller's prefer to work on private land, less government hassle, that's what they told me.  Permian Basin in West Texas, the Eagle Ford Shale in South Texas, the Granite Wash in the Panhandle, the Barnett Shale in North Texas and the Haynesville Shale in East Texas.  I always amazes me, one day we are running out of oil, the next day more oil found.  The energy/oil companies have been preaching we are running out of oil since the drilled the first well.
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Offline mechanic

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2013, 12:56:16 PM »
My query to your post, is why do you think this is?  Should we stop drilling?  I have a friend who is a global warming fanatic.  I asked him what should we do at this point?  Park all the cars, cut off the electricity and kill of most of the people?
 
Folks are always pointing the see I told 'ya finger, but never give alternatives.
 
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Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2013, 03:41:07 PM »
My query to your post, is why do you think this is?  Should we stop drilling?  I have a friend who is a global warming fanatic.  I asked him what should we do at this point?  Park all the cars, cut off the electricity and kill of most of the people?
 
Folks are always pointing the see I told 'ya finger, but never give alternatives.
 
Ben
+1 to every thought expressed, Ben. The free market and free men come to the best solution, on a daily basis. Political intervention will rarely provide a better solution than a free market.
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Offline vabeachman

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2013, 02:23:14 AM »
I didn't read where anyone posted to stop drilling.  I didn't read anywhere in this post about global warning.  I believe in drill baby drill and keep the oil in America.  By putting America oil on free market we are just helping our competitors.  No free markets in reality.  Chinese put a 25% tariff on US goods, US puts a 2.5% tariff on Chinese goods.  America is state sponsored capitalism.  So many hidden taxes (excise taxes) are put on things we buy to support various businesses, so that even if you don't use a product you still end up paying for it one way or another.  I wouldn't fly if it was free, but my tax dollars still go to the airline industry.  No such thing as a free market anymore.  Public Private ventureships.....Public Pays the bills....Private takes the profits.
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Offline vabeachman

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2013, 02:35:39 AM »
Since when does a free market stripped away the rights of its citizens by seizing their lands for their own purpose and gain.  Imminent domain. 
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Offline mechanic

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2013, 05:47:08 AM »
Per the response to my post....the problem then is not drilling, nor is it lack of oil.......it's the fact that American oil goes to the world while we pay world prices......AGREED!
 
This goes back to the suits in suites who manipulate commodities on a daily basis for their own profit, and to whom in retrospect most of the "bail out" money from this country went. 
 
We did after all give ol Soros a little help in his drilling venture off S. America....
 
Meanwhile he is manipulating currency worldwide....making money all the while...he will get to us soon enough. 
 
Ben
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Offline vabeachman

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2013, 05:56:47 AM »
There are 3 addendums attach to contract relating to cleanup and also a couple more on liability, and taxes.  Pennsylvania seems to honor contracts and property rights.  Pennsylvania refused to give energy companies the right of eminent domain, unlike many states. 
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Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2013, 07:23:22 AM »
Three things wrong with the Drill Baby drill claims
1) as private land is increasing drilling the President is ending drilling in the gulf and on public land creating a net shortage
2) As the economy grows, even at modest rates more fuel is needed, so as the economy grows by 2% we now need 2% more fuel or more to continue the growth.  You can not ration out of a famin.  If you need 1000 callories a day to live you can not conserve to 900 and hope to survive.  If we only have 9000 calories that is only enough fuel for 10 people.  and if we cna not grow in population, same with the fuel for the economy if we only have 9000 barrels of fuel a day we can only support so many companies with it. 
3) it really does not matter how much oil comes out of the ground if we have a refinery that can not process it into useable fuels, no to mention there is not a national fuel standard and each state can pick their own fuel blends causing choke points in the production process.  We need to build more refineries to both grow the exonomy and lower the fuel prices.
Increasing demand with out increasing supply will only raise prices.  We also have the problem with States like CA that have increased the taxes on a gallon of gas.  So now the state of CA makes 12X in taxes what Big oil makes in profit on a gallon of gas.  .39 in state taxes vs .03 per gallon.  Maybe if govenment were not so geeedy prices could come down.

Offline vabeachman

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2013, 08:05:47 AM »
NY is different.  I did live there for awhile.  Some of the most beautiful country in the world.  Would truly be a great state if it didn't have NYC.  I believe I am covered  as best  I can be.  Private land is the best for drilling.  Give the royalties to the property owners not the state.  I don't  believe in "forcing" the economy or population to grow, let it happen without government interference.  No more social engineering by elected officials or any other group.  Every drilling rig is more than likely in use or being transported to a more productive site on private land.  The USA is now a net exporter of energy.
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Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2013, 12:58:05 PM »
MCWD....please go back to post #12 and verify some of your 'impressions' in your last post...
A friend of mine is in the industry and sells to the drilling sites, He flys from Oil rig to rig in the gulf on a regular basis, and while some of the platforms are still there they are no longer US controled and the leases are given ot other countries. 
I will take my friends word over Obamas any day.  He says we are at a deficit.  Also I will stand by my statement of the refineries.  The US has not built a new refinery since the late 70's and while the cars have become more efficient the populations has doubled since then, the economy has moved to more truck and road based instead of rail based.  We also have more air transportation than we did in the 70's.  We are importing Gas and Diesel from Mexican refineries that are not up to the EPA standards that our refineries are and are poluting the globe more than needed.  If you think global warming is Man Made would you not want the refinery to be in the US and cleaner?  Or are you one of those that thinks we need ot move production off shore so you can yell about the lack of jobs and how dirty the planet is?
 And while we are an energy exporter it is mostly natural gas where we have huge reserves of the fuel.   
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Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2013, 01:20:57 PM »
You all are laboring under the false impression that oil produced in the US should be priced as to some cost of production.


Pricing a commodity has not a damn thing to do with cost of production. The sooner you folks accept that FACT the sooner you can get over your mad.


This seems to be a fairly rural background web site. Go find yourself a farmer and ask him about commodity pricing, ask him about how he did through the eighties ask him about the PIK program and why he was enrolled, explain to you the set aside program and why.  Then get around to the past few years. What led to the high corn prices? Why are there no plowed oats every July? Short easy answer is ethanol mandates.


Price is a direct reflection of demand, and is directly linked to supply. It has Jack $%!# to do with production costs. When demand lowers and prices drop the more costly production shuts down. Farmers go bankrupt and oil wells stop pumping if they cannot produce at a lower cost.


I for one have no interest in following the Venezuela model.  I am not now destitute nor do I want to become destitute so I can feel good about sticking it to the man.
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Offline vabeachman

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2013, 02:05:27 PM »
 Empty Quiver,  Why is it you lump everyone together?  I never posted anything about prices.  I have always believed the price of  a product is the price that some else is willing to pay for it, not how much it cost to grow, build, mine, etc. 
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Offline vabeachman

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2013, 02:21:14 PM »
Refineries are not being built mainly because demand for the product and products they produce is dropping.   The oil companies can see the writing on the wall.  Same thing with coal.  All new power plants are being built to use natural gas.  Compressed natural gas is taking over.  Proctor and Gamble has drilled its own natural gas wells and is converting their fleet over to CNG.  Plus they will be powering their plant in Susquehanna County PA with CNG, from their own wells.  Check out CNG in A BOX, joint venture between Chesapeake Gas and GE.  It is pretty much a complete CNG dispensing system.  Some Chinese are investing in the infrastructure to build CNG fueling stations along major truck routes. 
It just business. 
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Offline vabeachman

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2013, 02:45:14 PM »
Whoever wrote we are exporting large amounts of Natural gas is wrong.  Dept. of Energy is not allowing the facilities to be built.  Right now we can receive liquefied natural gas, but we don't have large enough facilities to liquefy for export.  And the Dept. of Energy doesn't want them built.  Many large manufacturers are also against exportation of natural gas and are lobbying politicians to prevent the exportation of CNG. 
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Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2013, 04:01:00 PM »
Empty Quiver,  Why is it you lump everyone together?  I never posted anything about prices.  I have always believed the price of  a product is the price that some else is willing to pay for it, not how much it cost to grow, build, mine, etc.
If you already understand the principle then you would not be one who needs to get a grip then would you? It would be too damned much trouble to exclude those who understand and include those who do not understand normal economic principles. My apologies for lumping you into a category you do not belong in. Please buy yourself a beer on me ;)
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Offline dakotashooter2

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2013, 05:38:39 PM »
Speculation is also a huge factor in pricing............... A large disaster even in an area that has no production or production facilities triggers a price increase. Tell me why demand would increase on 911........or..... after a hurricane when a large percentage of vehicles damaged by the storm are no longer requiring fuel.
Just another worthless opinion!!

Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2013, 06:07:24 PM »
Speculation is also a huge factor in pricing............... A large disaster even in an area that has no production or production facilities triggers a price increase. Tell me why demand would increase on 911........or..... after a hurricane when a large percentage of vehicles damaged by the storm are no longer requiring fuel.
Demand increased because of fear. Somebody said "hey remember the last time a bunch of Arabs got pissed and we sat in lines for days?" As well the head of some gas station chain said " listen Darrel I don't give a damn but if we run out of fuel your sorry ass will be fired" and so the ball rolled up hill and demand for fuel caused the price to rise. A gas station manager said to some fictitious customer " sure I still have enough gas, but the question is do you still have enough money ?" Supply and demand, You can't give away ice in Mn. for the last few months, but just watch what happens come July.


Hurricane prices? Twenty stations are without power, one is good to go. The fellows driving the trucks are not immune to the weather. The guys running the bulk plants are not immune to the weather. The refinery, same story.  That one station will not be getting a delivery till? That is a limited supply trying to meet an undetermined demand.


Now the rest of the story, all of those fleeing the storm are buying fuel to drive a long distance they would not normally have to do and are buying fuel on a day they would not normally buy it. Now we have a known demand going after an unknown supply. Unknown because the supply chain has to be reassembled. I'll tell you as a truck driver I have been called on to go to N.C. to help a distributor meet after hurricane demand. I was flown to and from and put up in a hotel given $30 some bucks a day for food and paid at the top scale for a week, along with 14 other guys from as far away as Ca. Same story for the selectors and loaders inside the warehouse. When a hurricane destroys your home it's tough to get to work from your parents farm 200 miles inland every morning.


So, there are some other things at work besides pure greed in a disaster. I love ya' brother but to go live a week in the back seat of my car so I can work in horrible conditions and eat roller dogs out of a C-Store, for low paying southern wages? I'll send a check to the Red Cross thank you very much, and still make my house payment.
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Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2013, 03:51:08 AM »
[~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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EQ....supply-demand and elasticity studies are fine, and indicate how a market operates. Marginal analysis is probaly a more important concept to understand in relation to the theory of suppy-demand. Moreover they show what factors need to be manipulated to maximize profit...one being units of production output, which is why we don't have new refineries at this point and high output, imo. Besides in your opinion, what basis is there for supply-demand relations per free market in a production monopoly?
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..TM7
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There is no production monopoly. I am not going so far as to eliminate the idea that oil companies are in collusion to drive up prices either. To assume that oil produced in this country is going to be priced differently is preposterous.


I certainly can be convinced we have pretty close to the right amount of refineries. Were there not excess capacity how on earth could we be importing crude oil and exporting refined product? The fact they are all clustered along the coasts and are so large that a problem for one affects the supply for a region is a problem for the consumer. It does not however make it a capacity problem. How many extra houses do you have? What about coffee makers, or range tops?


A private business must remain profitable to be of any good to society. The Super Saver food store that sold everything below cost and went out of business is saving no one anything. When an un-needed refinery comes on line and forces another to close due to lack of profitability, what has been gained?


As to the thread title. How can you be certain as to what effect the drilling has had on the market? Is there no room in your imagination for $4.85 gasoline? Perhaps lowering is too lofty a goal at present and maintaining is as good as can be done. As I mentioned earlier much of the new supply is available at higher cost only. Like bitching about the cost of bottled water while sitting on the ocean.
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Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2013, 04:06:15 AM »
Okay fine, EQ...but no production monopoly..?? I can count the oil companies dominate in the Western Hemisphere, or world for that matter, on one hand.  And what do you call a cartel...?
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..TM7
That ain't a monopoly though.


The Chavez plan doesn't seem to have worked out so well. What would you propose? Giving a government entity more power? No downside there ::) .
**Concealed Carry...Because when seconds count help is only minutes away**

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2013, 07:17:09 AM »
Okay fine, EQ...but no production monopoly..?? I can count the oil companies dominate in the Western Hemisphere, or world for that matter, on one hand.  And what do you call a cartel...?
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..TM7
That ain't a monopoly though.


The Chavez plan doesn't seem to have worked out so well. What would you propose? Giving a government entity more power? No downside there ::) .

Chavez plan didn't work out so well?......what do you mean?.....Power is power...be it in a private corp or a gov agency....with a gov agency and correct  and correct amount of regulations free enterpise can prevail. With a gov agency at least we have the chance to influence, change, and oversight.
 
Definition time:
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 mo·nop·o·ly /məˈnɒpəli/  [muh-nop-uh-lee] 
  noun, plural mo·nop·o·lies. 
1.  exclusive control of a commodity or service in a particular market, or a control that makes possible the manipulation of prices. Compare duopoly, oligopoly.
2.  an exclusive privilege to carry on a business, traffic, or service, granted by a government. 
3.  the exclusive possession or control of something. 
4.  something that is the subject of such control, as a commodity or service. 
5.  a company or group that has such control
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#5 Company or group having total control. 
You do not see the government as a company or a group and in Communism the government has total control over production of all goods and services being produced. 
I do not see you screaming that China has control over Rare Earth minerals and is forcing manufacturing of goods that use them in their country or not selling them?  That is OK because it is Communism using it's power and slave labor at it's best.

Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #26 on: March 24, 2013, 08:20:57 AM »
Point out all the government agencies we are currently exhibiting control over TM7. That chit is as theoretical as my examples of free markets are. At least I can decide which capitalist bastard I choose to send my money to, the government will simply take it at the point of a bayonet, with the blessings of the recipient crowd.


The entire world is corrupt, our corruption seems to lead to the fewest citizens dieing at the hands of their captors. Fairness is about as common as unicorns and  the same crowd is out looking for both as far as I can tell.
**Concealed Carry...Because when seconds count help is only minutes away**

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2013, 02:30:49 PM »
MCWD...Nowadays I see the governmnet as part and parcel partners with big corps, when formerly in our history they weren't,,,and in fact, incorporating in one of a few structures is actually a partnership with the governmnet...That's called 'Corporatism'.  And formally this wasn't allowed; in fact, our own Revolution was primarily to kick corps out of the country and end their tyrannical control of society and economy....that's called freedom.
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..TM7
So you are saying that Government is corupt, that it is too big and too powerful?  Everthing you have been saying up to this point is that government protects us from evil profit seeking companies and that we needed the government bigger, stronger, and creating more regulations to control the greedy companies.  Now you are saying that the government is in parner ship with the greedy corporations and we need to take away both of their powers by making government smaller and allowing free enterprise to flurish and small business take over. 
I think you are finally comming around that Deregulation is a good thing, that smaller government is healthy government, that ellected officials are out for them selves and not there to be a benevolant parent to you, and that smaller government is less coruptable.

Offline Shu

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2013, 03:39:25 PM »
Today I read on MSN "Drill baby drill" is starting to pay off. Companies supporting the drilling in North Dakota are growing, not just companies in North Dakota but others around the US also.
 
Could Sarah Palin been right?

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2013, 02:31:05 AM »
All the drilling and fracking for natural gas has lowered the natural gas prices to about what they were 20 years ago.  So yes, drilling has lowered natural gas prices and given us plenty of natural gas.  Of course, it is more abundant than oil, and it has recently passed coal as the number one producer of electricity at about 34%.  Coal has fell from 45% to about 33% recently and is still falling.  Nuclear is at about 20-25%, with wind and hydro about 10%.  More fleets are slowly switching to natural gas as fuel so that is cutting into gasoline use which helps cut imports.