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Author Topic: Adjustable Rear Sight for 45-70 Handi?  (Read 1282 times)

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Offline flmason

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Adjustable Rear Sight for 45-70 Handi?
« on: March 22, 2013, 06:09:19 PM »
Hi All,
   Have been running numbers through a ballistics calculator for different bullet weights and shapes for 45-70 and it seems that you can go from cap and ball strength 45 round ball levels to near dangerous game levels just by picking the bullet and powder.

Granted it won't be a varmit rifle on the low end or a Weatherby on the high end, but looks like lots of lattitude to play around with. The edge it seems to have on cast bullets in the 30 cal rifles is on the high end of the energy spectrum, least to me... but gives up the trajectory because of the 1400-ish velocities vrs the 2200-ish velocities (and then you'd need checks).

So is there a good ladder sight out there for these? Something like the old M1903 ladder sight or something, that allows you to quickly change the setting in the field?

Seems like you could carry a few of each loading... but other than a lot of range time, you'd almost have to have some sort of quick adjustable sight to jump around.

I have to believe they where on to this in the 1800's with all those tang sights and such.

Any sort of modern equivalent out there that might even mount back at the scope taps?

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Offline B S

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Re: Adjustable Rear Sight for 45-70 Handi?
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2013, 04:27:26 PM »
There has been quite a bit of discussion on this very topic so maybe I can sum a little bit of it up for you. I went through all of this when I purchased my buffalo classic too. Before I begin if you haven't already go ahead and browse through the FAQs and you should find a good bit of info on the matter. For the type of sight you are referring to there are two places to mount: the barrel probably using the existing tapped holes or the wrist (tang) of the stock. For barrel mounted sights there is a company called "smith" that produces and ladder style sight that is very highly touted by the folks that have used it. I have not used one so I can't honestly vouch for it but it looks well made. There are also more modern style peep sights from Williams that have target knob adjustments that mounts on the barrel in the same location as the factory mounted williams sight that comes on the buffalo classic. As an aside, I"m mentioning the BC because I have one and since you are talking about setting up a gun for iron sight use the longer barrel and sight radius gives iron sights a slight advantage over the shorter barreled counterparts. There are many options for tang mounted sights. Essentially you spend as much as you want on one. Its not hard to find sights that cost more than the gun itself. So I suggest buy a sight that will best fill your needs. You dont have to buy a $400 long range range soule sight if you are only going to shoot out to 300yds and mostly hunt with it. A shorter (and cheaper) mid range or "sheutzen (sp?)" sight might be just the thing. The are ladder sights creedmore style sights and the more advanced soule sights. If you are going to be hunting I suggest getting a sight with an aperture that will let enough light in to be able make a shot that may not present itself in the bright noon sunshine. Mounting these sights is another topic in itself. There are several different ways to mount the sights. Wood screws, threaded inserts set in the stock, installation of some form of false/pseudo tang are the most frequently used. Also some folks have drill and tapped a single hole in the rear of the receiver and the mounted the other hole of the sight base with one of the other methods. To each there own since all of the methods accomplish the same goal. Hope this helps!


BS
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: Adjustable Rear Sight for 45-70 Handi?
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2013, 04:22:34 AM »
Someone once mentioned using a Krag sight that was fairly easy to mod to fit at the scope/peep position. I believe a number of mil-surps that have the sliding bar with a peep could be considered. The issue I would have is that for the open sight use it would be too close to my eye so the ladder would have to always be up for use.
In the old days Remington had their 'Rough & Ready' sight that you might Google up for info and pics. It may be available from one of the Italian cloners and could possibly be adapted.
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We are only temporary caretakers of the past heading toward an uncertain future
22Mag UV / 22LR  Sportster
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12ga. 'Ol' Ugly OverKill', Buck barrel c/w  SpeedStock  and swap 28" x Full bird barrel, 1974

Offline tacklebury

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Re: Adjustable Rear Sight for 45-70 Handi?
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2013, 04:00:04 PM »
Krag, Springfield or other sights do work.  There are a few places to buy them less expensively.  The smith Ladder sight is actually designed to fit, but is hard to catch in stock and not cheap.
 
http://www.buffaloarms.com/Smith_Enterprise_Sights_it-164015.aspx?CAT=4077
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Tacklebury --}>>>>>    Multi-Barrel: .223 Superlite, 7mm-08 22", .30-40 Krag M158, .357 Maximum 16-1/4 HB, .45 Colt, .45-70 22" irons, 32" .45-70 Peeps, 12 Ga. 3-1/2 w/ Chokes, .410 Smooth slugger, .45 Cal Muzzy, .50 Cal Muzzy, .58 Cal Muzzy

also classics: M903 9-shot Target .22 Revolver, 1926 .410 Single, 1915 38 S&W Break top Revolver and 7-shot H&R Trapper .22 6" bbl.

Offline Peshtigo71

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Re: Adjustable Rear Sight for 45-70 Handi?
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2013, 05:48:11 PM »
    I have a Smith ladder sight on my 38-55.  I am extremely happy with it. ;)   You will probably have to change out the front sight to get it to match up with the fixed sight.
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Offline rfd

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Re: Adjustable Rear Sight for 45-70 Handi?
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2013, 02:33:03 AM »
i went through all of this (long range bc sights) a month or so ago.  all ya wanna know about this is detailed in the FAQ.

i will speak with regards to the bc, but this should fairly well apply or somehow translate to the handi 45-70, though that rifle has far more forward mounted rear iron buckhorn sights.

the quickest, easiest, cheapest fix is to replace the stock williams ramp peep with a far better williams elevator peep.  about $80 or so, i think.  this type of sight will not be "legal" at certain cowboy or long range events.

imo the better alternative, at twice the price, is the smith rear ladder peep.  you will find it online and all will be back ordered with no hope of getting any in stock.  however, as i did, you can order it direct from smith enterprises for the same fair trade price tag.  i think this is a superb sight, hand machined from block steel - lots of labor involved, and hence the $165 price tag.

at least one person (john boy) rigged his bc with a tang vernier and had good results at 1000 yards.  however, since the bc is a tip up barrel, there *may* be alignment issues since the tang and front sights sit on different, moving parts of the rifle.

hope this helps.
 
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Offline rdlange

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Re: Adjustable Rear Sight for 45-70 Handi?
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2013, 05:08:06 AM »
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Offline dodd3

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Re: Adjustable Rear Sight for 45-70 Handi?
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2013, 06:12:54 AM »
Quote from: gcrank1 on April 03, 2013, 04:22:34 AM
In the old days Remington had their 'Rough & Ready' sight that you might Google up for info and pics. It may be available from one of the Italian cloners and could possibly be adapted.
you can get a Rough & Ready sight from MVA but they a for an octagonal barrel to fit them to the handi or buff classic you would have to put a flat or a long dovetail on the top of the breech end of the barrel,they are $90 comes with screws and 3 eyediscs .047 .059 .074. see pics
Bernie ;)
http://www.montanavintagearms.com/rough_ready.html


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Offline gcrank1

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Re: Adjustable Rear Sight for 45-70 Handi?
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2013, 07:05:52 AM »
Thanx for that Dodd3, well done!
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      ><   ->
We are only temporary caretakers of the past heading toward an uncertain future
22Mag UV / 22LR  Sportster
357Mag Schuetzen Special
45-70  SS Ultra Hunter with UV cin.lam. wood
12ga. 'Ol' Ugly OverKill', Buck barrel c/w  SpeedStock  and swap 28" x Full bird barrel, 1974

Offline bearbeater

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Re: Adjustable Rear Sight for 45-70 Handi?
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2013, 11:56:51 AM »
A 1917 Enfield sight
bb
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Offline Nick762

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Re: Adjustable Rear Sight for 45-70 Handi?
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2013, 04:05:27 AM »
What height front sight is everyone using with the smith ladder sight? I currently have a .404 and it appears to be way  too short!
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Offline tacklebury

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Re: Adjustable Rear Sight for 45-70 Handi?
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2013, 02:06:51 PM »
If you have a decent micrometer, you can use a height calculator to determine what is needed:
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=13186/GunTechdetail/Sight-Height-Calculator
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Tacklebury --}>>>>>    Multi-Barrel: .223 Superlite, 7mm-08 22", .30-40 Krag M158, .357 Maximum 16-1/4 HB, .45 Colt, .45-70 22" irons, 32" .45-70 Peeps, 12 Ga. 3-1/2 w/ Chokes, .410 Smooth slugger, .45 Cal Muzzy, .50 Cal Muzzy, .58 Cal Muzzy

also classics: M903 9-shot Target .22 Revolver, 1926 .410 Single, 1915 38 S&W Break top Revolver and 7-shot H&R Trapper .22 6" bbl.

Offline SlimPigguns

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Re: Adjustable Rear Sight for 45-70 Handi?
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2013, 03:40:04 PM »
Quote from: rdlange on April 05, 2013, 05:08:06 AM
In stock at Brownells...

http://item.brownells.com/categories/smith-enterprise-sights/wesson-harrington-long-range-sight.htm
      Thanks for the Heads up! i have been watching these for years , but always on back order. I saw this post last night and have placed my order. Pete                                                                                                                                                                         
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