Confused about bad groups when rested.

[Whiterabbitttttt]

So, I read a lot about my handi, and the concensus is to rest on the foreend screw or frame. I've done both with my 357 max and both ways it groups great. Edge goes to resting on the forend screw (slightly more stable?), but both are fine. So I figured this rifle was OK to rest on the forend screw.
 
Fast forward to my huntsman because this is a switchbarrel rifle and I only have one frame. I've been having trouble finding a good load. I've been sticking with what "seems" to group best, but it is inconsistent. Sometimes looks great, then round #4 is off again. Some days good, some days nothing works.

So I took what, over several pounds of powder, seemed best. Took it off the bags and held it in my hands, elbows on the bench. The results are attached below.

This group is at 50 yards. You can see its all over the map, but hand-held put 3 rounds fairly close together. This is the same rifle that, with a 357 barrel is JUST FINE on bags.

Is this normal? one barrel "likes" being rested, another barrel "likes" being held?

[thumper113]

Same receiver but essentially two different rifles.  Different forearms as well.

I'd pull off the forearm and shoot from the rest.  Betcha its binding somewhere.

Others who are smarter on this can weigh in, but that would be my guess.

[Oldshooter]

Same receiver but essentially two different rifles.  Different forearms as well.

I'd pull off the forearm and shoot from the rest.  Betcha its binding somewhere.

Others who are smarter on this can weigh in, but that would be my guess.

yep, try it without the forearm and rest it back just in front of the trigger. made a difference with my 270.  the 270 used to ladder stack em till i got the forearm thing under control.

[cwlongshot]

I see this as a lock up issue...

Check the barrel fit at the latch. Could be lube on the latch or shelf, but IMHO something is happening there. Also some need or show better groups with firmly and consistantly snapping the action closed.

NO firearm will respond well to being fired off a hard rest. Some do not see the ''where to hole the forend'' problem. But some do, I do on most of mine. I put the bags at the hinge, not the screw. I fit my for ends and usually ''o'' ring them. I check to see they are not touching or binding anywhere. I also fit at the hinge by either adding a thin piece of steel or filing some off the fore stock so I get a good firm contact at the receiver.

Good luck,

CW

[MTNRGR]

CW,   "I fit my for ends and usually ''o'' ring them. I check to see they are not touching or binding anywhere."
Stupid question, just want to make sure I'm tracking. When you say "fit" does that mean that no forend stock is in contact with the barrel, only the screw and O ring?

[cwlongshot]

CW,   "I fit my for ends and usually ''o'' ring them. I check to see they are not touching or binding anywhere."
Stupid question, just want to make sure I'm tracking. When you say "fit" does that mean that no forend stock is in contact with the barrel, only the screw and O ring?

Yes.

The wood of the for end will not touch the steel at any point yes. The ''O'' ring (or two of them) will be enough to seperate the wood form the steel. If it does not I releave the wood with a barrel channel tool until it does. Then I like the for end to be snug... NOT tight and NOT loose. This is adjusted be removing the plastic with the two screws and adding a spacer or removing wood.

CW

[MTNRGR]

Awesome, thanks....I never realized the importance of guns with free floated barrels until now with the screw on the Handi.
I dont have a barrel channel tool but I'm sure sandpaper with some elbow grease will work the same.

[cwlongshot]

Awesome, thanks....I never realized the importance of guns with free floated barrels until now with the screw on the Handi.
I dont have a barrel channel tool but I'm sure sandpaper with some elbow grease will work the same.

I dont consider it a ''fix all'', but I have yet to see any problems caused by it.

Try a proper sized dowel in that sand paper, works just fine! 

CW

[MTNRGR]

Yep I never would have thought of that , probably helps with keeping it uniform while sanding...... thats why you get paid the big bucks.

[Ol BW]

One thing to remember as to the difference between .357 and muzzleloaders is the barrel vibration.  Slow large projectiles of large diameter compared to smaller "faster" slugs.  Just the difference in powder could be a big factor in barrel vibration. ( i. e. black powder or pyrodex compared to 2400 or IMR 4227 etc.)