Author Topic: Re-kindling SHOOTALL's slipping rifle topic (Read 2922 times)

MTNRGR · « **on:** March 25, 2013, 12:25:30 PM »

I didn't read all the replies so this may have been suggested already......this is based on if I were traveling a long distance from home, over a days walk, and want to be as inconspicuous as possible because I am not in my back yard anymore I'm in someone else's now......
I would get a 28 inch double barrel shotgun, or even a single, there is no gun less "threatening" looking than that, the V.P even endorsed shotguns

for self defense. Then I would get the barrel inserts, .22lr all the way up to 30-30 take your pick get a few different common calibers, along with bird, buck and slugs thats a lot of options and if its a double barrel you can mix and match, maybe you come across some ammo while your evading that you happen to have an insert for. Also I would have a hacksaw in my vehicle, at the point that I am in evasion mode I'm probably not to worried about getting in trouble for having a short barrel there are bigger fish to fry, besides the 28" barrel was just for show anyways and the inserts dont use more of the barrel than they touch.

Thats my 2 cents.

MTNRGR · « **Reply #1 on:** March 25, 2013, 12:39:05 PM »

Shoot I didn't see his travel gun(s) topic either. My bad.

Ranger99 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 25, 2013, 01:24:13 PM »

i'd have to still go with a packable
.22 or my topper broke down in a
pack.
traveling, i'd want to be low-key
and avoiding contact, which would mean
no shooting if possible or one shot at
the most. if someone is 200 yards away, or
100 yards or even 75 i'll call that good because
i would intend on letting them go their
way without letting them know i was
there so i could continue on my way.
only john rambo and the terminator could
survive one of those unlimited ammo
firefights and come out alive (rambo died
in the book i think)
i would be silently sliding on past unnoticed
while one of those mall ninja's was getting
ventilated by a bunch of freebooters or
fatherland securitizi's
after i made it home to my like-minded
neighbors and washed and rested, then
i'd be thinking about defending friends
and hearth and home.
if nothing more than weather or natural
disaster or the like, i wouldn't want to
be the one hiking home with a bunch of
l.e. attention getting cammo tacticool
stuff on. just be the guy with a solid color
daypack or gymbag hiking home.

MTNRGR · « **Reply #3 on:** March 25, 2013, 01:39:18 PM »

Roger that,
But just for debate purpose, in my scenario you have a hack saw, cut the barrel way down and the gun could be the size of takedown rifle, with say a .22lr insert, and a .223 insert and some buckshot. 50 rounds of .22lr and 20 rounds of .223 and 4 buckshot would make me feel a lot better than just a .22. and its not heavy and could be carried in pockets.
I know accuracy isn't great with the barrel inserts, but they will do the job, and at 200 yards your still gonna get there attention now matter what you throw at them, if that if a factor in gun selection.

Ranger99 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 25, 2013, 01:49:15 PM »

only drawback to that would be
that when you chop a double,
the regulation is gone for any
rifle type shooting.
my deal is that i would consider
my little stroll a success if i didn't
have to bust any caps.
and an ejector topper isn't as slow
to reload as most would think.

all in all, i hope this never has to
play out for real for anyone.

MTNRGR · « **Reply #5 on:** March 25, 2013, 02:07:02 PM »

I'm in the mindset that if 1) I had to leave my vehicle for some reason and/or 2) Public trans is down, then some serious stuff hit the fan and I'm playing for keeps, and yeah I would hope I didn't have to bust a cap either, just looking at it from the worst case scenario point of view.

wolverine_1 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 25, 2013, 02:19:54 PM »

actually, my insert, 18"x.45 ACP, gave me a 3" group at 100 yds in a 20" Partner on a Handi frame in 12 ga & sights. I'd call that ok. Haven't yet tried my .22 insert in that gun yet, but expect good accuracy with it.

MTNRGR · « **Reply #7 on:** March 25, 2013, 02:25:32 PM »

Thats impressive, I imagine a .45 group like that is hard to come by out of any gun at 100yrds. Though I'm sure many could prove me wrong.

Casull · « **Reply #8 on:** March 25, 2013, 04:47:09 PM »

You might be a bit noisy strolling through the woods with a backpack full of 18" rifle barrels (basically what the inserts are).

MTNRGR · « **Reply #9 on:** March 25, 2013, 05:24:23 PM »

I've seen a bunch of 3" inserts, thats pretty much the standard across the board for manufacturers, most don't make em longer than 9". That is why you could cut the barrel down to nothing at all, however I know accuracy will go away with the sight raduis of the barrel but the bullet is still only using what ever length insert you have. The 18" are expensive and limited on calibers. From what I know anyways.

Casull · « **Reply #10 on:** March 25, 2013, 05:31:30 PM »

With a 3" insert (barrel), you're not going to get much velocity either.

MTNRGR · « **Reply #11 on:** March 25, 2013, 05:38:18 PM »

Hmmmm, did overlook that important point. I still have to believe a .223 is going to be cooking a lot more than a .22 even coming out of a 3" insert.

OK I admit maybe not a good idea, and I was so sure about it.....

..... but check these out anyway.
http://www.mcace.com/shotguninserts.htm

Seems to be all low pressure calibers?

Casull · « **Reply #12 on:** March 25, 2013, 05:58:16 PM »

Now you went and made me want one.

A 10" insert might be very interesting.

MTNRGR · « **Reply #13 on:** March 25, 2013, 06:00:48 PM »

I know..right. Thats what I was thinking. Maybe not a 3" but a 9 or 10" would do.

wolverine_1 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 25, 2013, 06:15:27 PM »

The 18" insert came from MCA Sports in Alaska. The 22 is by Shell Shrinker (no longer in business) and is rifled. I just haven't taken it to the range with this "new" barrel on my Handi Rifle. It always has done fine at 25 yrds with a bead front and notch rear std on a shotgun. It is true the 18" cost $150, but where can you get a .45 ACP carbine/rifle that shoots that well for that price? Oh, 18" will fit in a back pack with no problem. The only modification I had made after I got it was to have a bevel put in the breach of the insert so I can flick the case out with a finger nail so I don't have to pull the insert out to unload it with a rod as MCA recommends. Worked really well at the range.

MTNRGR · « **Reply #15 on:** March 25, 2013, 06:25:31 PM »

Amen, I'm sold on it.

blind ear · « **Reply #16 on:** March 27, 2013, 01:16:25 AM »

Quote from: wolverine_1 on March 25, 2013, 02:19:54 PM

actually, my insert, 18"x.45 ACP, gave me a 3" group at 100 yds in a 20" Partner on a Handi frame in 12 ga & sights. I'd call that ok. Haven't yet tried my .22 insert in that gun yet, but expect good accuracy with it.

Where do you get your inserts? thanks, ear

MTNRGR · « **Reply #17 on:** March 27, 2013, 01:46:32 AM »

Ear, he said he got them from this place I think.
http://www.mcace.com/shotguninserts.htm

wolverine_1 · « **Reply #18 on:** April 12, 2013, 01:51:53 PM »

Yes, That's where I got the 18" insert. "Ear, he said he got them from this place I think.
http://www.mcace.com/shotguninserts.htm"

tacklebury · « **Reply #19 on:** April 12, 2013, 04:54:22 PM »

I think mine would be my switch barrel H&R setup. I have .223 in three flavors: (1) 45gr HP with 4.1 gr. Unique for a jaw dropping 1200 fps, (2) 55 gr. Ballistic Tips with 27 gr. Reloader7 moving out about 3100 fps, and (3) 65 gr. Partitions with 29 gr. Reloader7 for 3200 fps. With those three, I can kill anything in North America basically. I carry my .45 Colt pistol on my hip and .357 CCW gun. I also carry my .45-70 barrel which is throwing a 350 gr. RNFP bullet at just over 2k fps. If the above cannot stop it and I want to kill it, Just switch barrels. If it's coming too fast to switch, I pull the Blackhawk and put it down.

I can carry a lot of .22 ammo though also and have a hollow .223 chamber adapter to shoot those also. The reloadable .223 though are more accurate and have a bit more punch and are closer to .22 Magnum level.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #20 on:** April 12, 2013, 05:24:15 PM »

Tacklebury,
Swaping abrrels on an H&R takes some time. Leaving you open to a problem as you tear down the gun and pull out the next barrel and then pulling out a torque wrench and making sure the screw is tight and you will get your accuracy.
I think you have over thought your idea. the weight of the spare barrels and the spare ammo can be better carried as other needed supplies to help you move faster and easier. Water, food, or other items can be used better to get you from point A to B.
The goal of this is to pick a firearms that would allow you to leave your vehicle and walk home. Now granted as I was writting this I was thinking of where I live and not looking where you live. It may be days or more for you to walk home, espacally in winter and through some areas with big preditors. But simply having a single long arm and your CCW and a hunting hand gun may make you move faster.
When I was 14 I asked dad for a 22 to shoot squirrels with. He said what was wrong with my SXS 20 to that, and what was I going to do carry a 22 rifle on my back while out with the 20 ga for birds? He later pointed out that the SXS would be the perfect meat gun. A load of bird shot in front tube and a slug or buck in the back barrel. See a grouse front barrel, squirrel rabbit, woodcock, phesant, dove... all front trigger see a deer and back barrel.
Later I added a pair of handguns to my hunting arsonal and a 22 pistol wouold go with a shotgun or a big game rifle and a center fire revolver would go when I had a 22 rifle or a shotgun. (yes wne I was 18 I bought my own 22 rifle)
I think the same goes for the long arm you want to keep in the car in case.
Years ago I kept a Take down Steven 520 shotgun under the back seat of my Jeep Cherokee along with buck, slugs and a few rounds of bird shot. The shot gun comes into two sections that are both about 20" long and easy to keep in a back pack and snap and screw together quickley and load. But after years of knowing the gun was in the car I took it out and found it was rusted and the ammo was coroded. I would suggest you vaccume seal anything you keep in the car for emergency. I think a pump shotgun with slugs, buck, and bird shot would be your best bet for a few reasons.
1) you can use bird shot to hunt small game and birds
2) there is a stereo type of a short barreled pump gun as a devistating weapon and may deter anyone from messing with you.
3) a load of buck and slugs will deter any preditors after hitting them a few times. Slugs will reach out over 100 yards to make hits. Buck is leathal under 50 yards.

tacklebury · « **Reply #21 on:** April 13, 2013, 05:15:12 PM »

The conversation turned to using adapters to fulfill several different roles. Adapters and the various types of ammo take weight and space and aren't equal to a slipping gun either in your view. If you want it reduced to one barrel, I'd go the .223 with the 3 types of ammo. I can kill any small, medium or large game where I live with that one barrel. I would never rest my life on just a shotgun of any type as it's too indiscriminate and the ammo is too heavy and bulky. In the space of one box of 20 ga. Shells I can fit almost 150 .223, so I'd have (50) light, (50) medium and (50) heavy in the same space as 25 shots of 20 ga. I could also kill at ranges up to 700 yards and take the eye out of a human target at 100 yards. Total weight for my .223 scoped rifle is 7 pounds and the ammo is 3 pounds. Pretty tough to get more firepower and variability in a package with accuracy. Just my 2 cents for what it's worth.

blind ear · « **Reply #22 on:** April 14, 2013, 08:53:45 AM »

It would benefit a lot of people to learn to shoot a decent pistol. 100 yard "body zone" accuracy is easy. Small game is easy to close on. Easiest to go undetected. ear

Ol BW · « **Reply #23 on:** May 02, 2013, 01:26:35 PM »

Considering the original intent Shootall put forth, I don't feel like carrying the most and most powerful ammo is quite the best way to go. Not only do you have to carry that ammo, you may have to stash it to keep someone from knowing you have a gun somewhere. I also feel like something least threatening looking and packable would be good. Also it would have to be something you might stash easily. I don't think you would want to kill a deer in this situation. Dressing a deer is messy and hard to conceal and hard compared to small game. You would however want to be able to dispatch someone intent on harming you.

A single shot shotgun seems to be the most acceptable type of gun. It would be easy to break down and pack if needed. Two types come to mind, 20 ga. or 45/.410. 20 ga. ammo is lighter than 12 ga. and you can carry bird shot and slugs, maybe buckshot. If you add in a chamber adapter, you could have another cartridge also, to fill the requirement to be able to shoot same ammo as a sidearm.

The 45 colt/.410 would be even easier to work with.

I would think carrying more than 12 or so of each caliber would be prohibitive if you were caught in a position you had to stash it or ditch it where you could pick it up later.

I don't think that stainless would be the best way to go either, unless it was colored dark. Stainless to me = money, not to mention it is flashy and easier to see. It also does not necessarily make a gun impervious to the weather. Normally, the internal working parts are not stainless and can still rust.

BW

wolverine_1 · « **Reply #24 on:** May 02, 2013, 02:01:47 PM »

Reciently got a Henry survival rifle (AR 7). It fits in a soft sided brief case with plenty of Ammo and even a scope. Unlike the Charter Arms AR 7 I had years ago, it is quite accurate, barrel isn't bent (that one was), and will carry 3 magazines in the stock. And, if you don't want to be obvious, it stays in the bag. I figure if you are trying to "slip" around without alerting others, that might well be the best option. No fire fights, just slip by un noticed.

mannyrock · « **Reply #25 on:** May 03, 2013, 06:10:55 AM »

I would seriously consider one of the .22 magnum pump action rifles (use to be made by Taurus in take-down version, currently sold by Henry rifle co.) Very light weight and civilian-looking (like a carnival gallery gun). Twelve shots of a very effective light-weight rounds, capable of taking small game to 100 yards, plus deer at 50 yards, plus stopping or ending the fight of bad guys out to 100 yards. Ammo is lighweight and comes in 50 round plastic boxes, just like regular .22 LR.

And if a law enforcement person checks you out, you can say, "Its just a .22 rifle" He isn't going to ask or care if its a magnum.

I am really surprised that given the parameters of the post, (i.e., slipping around for a few days to get back home in a non-instrusive manner), that the subject has drifted to multiple barrels, barrel inserts, different kinds of ammo, etc. Me, I wanna be carrying some food and water, not all of that crp.

Mannyrock

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #26 on:** May 03, 2013, 04:50:40 PM »

Quote from: mannyrock on May 03, 2013, 06:10:55 AM

I would seriously consider one of the .22 magnum pump action rifles (use to be made by Taurus in take-down version, currently sold by Henry rifle co.) Very light weight and civilian-looking (like a carnival gallery gun). Twelve shots of a very effective light-weight rounds, capable of taking small game to 100 yards, plus deer at 50 yards, plus stopping or ending the fight of bad guys out to 100 yards. Ammo is lighweight and comes in 50 round plastic boxes, just like regular .22 LR.

And if a law enforcement person checks you out, you can say, "Its just a .22 rifle" He isn't going to ask or care if its a magnum.

I am really surprised that given the parameters of the post, (i.e., slipping around for a few days to get back home in a non-instrusive manner), that the subject has drifted to multiple barrels, barrel inserts, different kinds of ammo, etc. Me, I wanna be carrying some food and water, not all of that crp.

Mannyrock

Ballistaclly the 22Mag is Equal in Foot pounds to a 9mm handgun.

mannyrock · « **Reply #27 on:** May 04, 2013, 04:02:25 AM »

But with a much flatter trajectory, and much lighter ammo, in a true rifle package.

Ol BW · « **Reply #28 on:** May 04, 2013, 11:28:50 AM »

I sure would not feel under gunned with a 22 mag. and I feel that it would fit the bill nicely. A 22lr would be good in my opinion. Seems like these were both mentioned in the original post.

BW

redleg11b · « **Reply #29 on:** May 05, 2013, 10:34:11 AM »

WMR repeater with 50 rounds or a 20g single shot with a few rounds of birdshot, 5 slugs (one stays in the chamber). You can always make ringed loads if needed for protection too. I am workig on a 3 barrel set, but not for bugging out or getting home. It will be my poor man's hunting battery. I think that may be where the chamber insert or multiple barrel discussion is better suited. A well worn but serviceable backpack (school looking type), worn jeans or dockers, seasonable appropriate shirt/jacket, and some well fitting hiking shoes will fill the bill as far as looks. Add a poncho, spare socks, a few water bladders, if distance dictates maybe an antimicrobial water filter, and some lightweight high energy vittles and you are good to go. Slipping isn't about being unseen, it is about blending in to the point of not raising any concern or being memorable. Toss the shorty in a blanket roll loosely tied on one end for a disguised scabbard. Pay close attention to your surroundings to see trouble coming in advance.