Something Else to think about

[ChungDoQuan]

Once again, NO, I DID NOT SAY WE SHOULD TAKE THEIR MONEY AND PAY OFF THE DEBT. I'm saying common sense says a person should be even more wary of a capitalist corporation with more power than the United States government. Those capitalists do not have a Constitution. They have no rules. If that does not at least worry someone, they need to pull their head out of their... out of the sand.

[mcwoodduck]

Economic Darwinism,
Adapt, grow or change to not be come extinct.
No matter what rules and laws are made the capitalist system will adapt to thrive in those conditions.  The more adverse the conditions the larger the item needs to be to survive.  Look at the animals  in the cold adverse conditions are larger than their counter parts in warmer climated.    Less hardships and you have more smaller animals, more hardships and the fewer and the larger they need to be to thrive. 

[rickt300]

It doesn't matter WHICH of the two parties are corporate marionettes this week. What matters is that they BOTH are, meaning that, for all your devotion to the Constitution, it does not matter. The government is being ruled by big corporation money.

For example, while both sides beat their own drums about who should be allowed to get married to whom, while everyone was distracted, Monsanto got a bill passed that gives them immunity to lawsuits over harm caused by GMO food. Now, I ask you, if GMO foods were harmless, why do they need such a law?It's all about the money--- ALWAYS.

Suppose your right, big money runs the country, just as it does every other civilzed nation. So what! Thats way better than some delusional group of leftists pushing hate and same sex marriage. Who do you want running the country? Yoko Ono?

[ChungDoQuan]

In unrestricted "Economic Darwinism" everyone on this board is a member of an endangered species.

[mcwoodduck]

In unrestricted "Economic Darwinism" everyone on this board is a member of an endangered species.

But that is the rub, you want lots of restrictions that opens up for preditors and the only way to survive is to be come larger, so you are stuck in a cycle of wanting more restrictions that is only going to make it larger and larger.  If you want it smaller you need to deregulate and introduce new  life forms that will make hte largest firms smaller, will inovate and create new oppertunities, new jobs, and less coruption as the largest firms can not buy politicians to make rules and regulations that favor them and do not protect the general public.  Remember the rules and regulations that were supose to protect investors is what made it possible for Bernie Madoff to steal billions.  These same rules made people feel safe and did not let them do their research into the Ponzi scam he was running.  And so far these rules are about as effective as putting up a sign in Africa for the lions and Crocs not to eat people.

[Dixie Dude]

Problem with dirivitives.  This is usually bundled mortgages owned by the bank or whoever.  This is not money but outstanding loans that people OWE the bank.  If there are 50 million homes in America with a $50,000 mortgage, that is 2,500 trillion dollars of debt owed to these banks or to Fannie and Freddie.  It may be listed as assets on the books, but it is just paper until the debt is paid.  This is why loaning money to people who couldn't pay back the mortgage was and is stupid.  It created the economic mess we are in.  It was a combination of EVERYONE's fault.  From Clinton to Congress allowing this to happen after being warned of the bubble it was creating.  No one wanted to listen.  Thomas Jefferson warned about the banks getting too big and powerful.  All the big ones need to be broken up into much smaller ones.  No business should be too big to fail.  If it is, if not a monopoly, it is approaching one, and should be broken up.  Oil companies and banks especially along with big pharma companies and big chemical companies.  GE can be broken up into appliances, big generators, jet engines, etc.  Seperate companies like it once was. 

[ChungDoQuan]

Money is debt. Watch "Zeitgheist."

[BBF]

Money is debt. Watch "Zeitgheist."

Pardon my interruption 
 
It is spelled Zeitgeist.....................no "h"
 
Zeit= Time
Geist= Ghost or Spirit.

[SHOOTALL]

Money is debt. Watch "Zeitgheist."

No money is a receipt for debt 

[nw_hunter]

Money is debt. Watch "Zeitgheist."

Pardon my interruption 
 
It is spelled Zeitgeist.....................no "h"
 
Zeit= Time
Geist= Ghost or Spirit.

Pardon mine!.........We don't teach English on GB.Or Kerect speelling.

[SHOOTALL]

people should never ask me how to spell a word if they want the correct spelling    I get creative 

[Dixie Dude]

About 1/3 of Goldman Sachs so called value is in mortgage dirivitives, which is actually debt owed by the borrower.  If they don't pay, Goldman doesn't get their money back.  So, there is probably 1,000 times mortgage debt owed than what the feds owe.  However the feds don't have any assets to pay back their debt with only taxes.  Goldman might be too big so they might need to be broken up same as all too big to fail banks or businesses.  More competition and if one smaller company fails, the feds don't have to bail them out.  No one can bail out the feds except China. 

[mcwoodduck]

About 1/3 of Goldman Sachs so called value is in mortgage dirivitives, which is actually debt owed by the borrower.  If they don't pay, Goldman doesn't get their money back.  So, there is probably 1,000 times mortgage debt owed than what the feds owe.  However the feds don't have any assets to pay back their debt with only taxes.  Goldman might be too big so they might need to be broken up same as all too big to fail banks or businesses.  More competition and if one smaller company fails, the feds don't have to bail them out.  No one can bail out the feds except China.

But all banks work that way, you deposit $ and they loan it out keeping a reserve in case you want some of your $. 
This is the creation of wealth.  You deposit $100 in the bank, the bank pays you 1% and keeps 20% of your money on hand and loans out $80 of it.  So lets take 1000 people all putting $100 in a CD for a year.  That allows them to loan out $80,000 at an interest rate to pay for the building, pay the employees and pay you the interest they agreed to pay for you lending them your money.
As they eld out that $80,000 and people buy items with it or hire people, those people will deposit their money in the bank and they cna loan a portion of that out.  Yes there is only  going to be the original 100,000 but that money can turn into 300,000 of assests.  The people borrowing the moeny want the asset and will repay the loan to either have the assest or borrow the money to make more by hiring people to work for them, buy raw materials, or capital that helps make things.  So if the 80,000 was borrowed by a farmer to clear land, buy seeds, a plow and a draft horse.  The clearing of the land would be labor, the seeds would be raw materials and the plow adn horse would be capital.  The horse is worth something, the plow is worth something and the seeds will be worth something once they grow. 
China will never bail out the excessive spending of the fed govt if they will not be paid back.  Would you led me $ if I told you I would pay you 20% interest but the million I am borrowing from you the interest is far more than I bring in.   

[vabeachman]

The required reserve depends on the type of deposit and how big the bank is.  Some banks only have a 3% reserve I think.  A straight 20% reserve requirement would be great, but the banks would complain. 

[rickt300]

Right now it is critical to the security of the country that the right NOT be in control.

If you are just slinging insults CDQ why not stop and add something of substance to the conversation? You really think the Obama administration is good for the security of this country?

[mcwoodduck]

The required reserve depends on the type of deposit and how big the bank is.  Some banks only have a 3% reserve I think.  A straight 20% reserve requirement would be great, but the banks would complain.

FDIC makes them reserve a larger portion than 3% of total deposits.  The 3% was what caused the runs on the banks bak in the late 20's and early 30's and expanded the first great depression.  I really think it is 20% if it is less it is not much less and was changed reciently.

[blind ear]

Goldman Sachs' holdings include $45+ Trillion in derivatives, The derivatives are 30% of their holdings. That equals 9 times the Deficit. They are # 290 on the list of world's largest multinationals. Look it up--- I've posted the links before, but the rightys' immunity to facts is still going strong...

So what?
Are you saying we should steal their holdings and pay off the debt?  And if we do steal their money what would stop them same government from stealing everything from you?
I wish more companies had 9x the national debt, not that i want more conglomerates that big I want our national debt lower.  We can not keep borrowing to sustane the current spending.   At some point our debt service will exceed our income and we will be brankrupt.

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Appears to me that CDQ is saying that the protection that the corporations are getting by bailouts and no pressure to right their books is allowing 1/3 of Goldman's assets to stand when in fact they don't exist. They are in realestate holdings or derivatives (leveraged borrowing) that have no value in market based on tangibles or earnings. 1/3 of their holdings are fiat just like our money.
-
ear

[SHOOTALL]

banks in effect create money. say they take in 100 dollars in deposits . they deposit it with the federal reserve bank . then they can load out 1000 dollars from loans they get from the federal reserve bank. where did the extra 900 dollars come from ? and now with deposits down well you can see the problem. as long as more deposits were coming in more creative loans could be made . but deposits slowed. and now the last few years of foreclosures ....................................a system in panic 

[blind ear]

banks in effect create money. say they take in 100 dollars in deposits . they deposit it with the federal reserve bank . then they can load out 1000 dollars from loans they get from the federal reserve bank. where did the extra 900 dollars come from ? and now with deposits down well you can see the problem. as long as more deposits were coming in more creative loans could be made . but deposits slowed. and now the last few years of foreclosures ....................................a system in panic

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Makes their books richer and the taxpayer carries the risk. They shouldn't have been "too big to fail". They did fail but the taxpayers were forced to keep them operateing. ear

[SHOOTALL]

key word operating 

[vabeachman]

Banking reserve requirements on many types of deposits is 0% according to data on the Federal Reserve Website.  If there is any reserve is it does not apply to the first 2 million of the deposit.  This is data from 2012.

[BBF]

Money is debt. Watch "Zeitgheist."

Pardon my interruption 
 
It is spelled Zeitgeist.....................no "h"
 
Zeit= Time
Geist= Ghost or Spirit.

Pardon mine!.........We don't teach English on GB.Or Kerect speelling.

As a matter of interest to myself, I used the GBO spellchecker on that particular word and it came out correct, Woo da thunked dat, and it is German to boot. LOL !!