Author Topic: Contender in 444 Marlin & scope rings :( (Read 1332 times)

Redhawk1 · « **on:** February 19, 2004, 12:20:10 PM »

I shot my 444 Marlin today for the first time. It has a 10 inch barrel and no muzzle tamer. I installed a Leupold 20 mm EER scope and Leupold QRW rings. Well, on my 20th shot the rings busted where the little bar fits on the mount, on both rings. I set the rings where they were seated to the front of the slot in the mount and tightened them down tight. This is the second time a set of these rings busted in the same place. These rings are not cheap $50.00. Has any one else had these rings fail? I was using my reloads and they are loaded about midway, not hot loads. The rings also damaged my mount. I will sent them back to Leupold and see what they say.

rickyp · « **Reply #1 on:** February 19, 2004, 12:37:46 PM »

you should send that barrel out to ssk and have a t'sob scope mount installed and put at least 3 rings on it and you may be better off with 4.
Or you can try a weaver base for the contender and put your own tasco (or like) ringson it. the only thing is the 4 factory screws may not be enough to hold the thing in place but is worth a try for the price of the base and rings.

I would also use a good layer of rubber cement on the inside of the rings to provide extra gripping power

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 19, 2004, 01:35:35 PM »

My problem is not the scope moving in the rings, it is the rings. Where the rings fit into the slots on the base is my problem. I had these rings on my S&W500 and did not have a problem. Now I put on a set of Millet rings on the 444 Contender, I will see how they hold up. If they fail I will go with Warne rings like I used on my 50BMG.

rickyp · « **Reply #3 on:** February 19, 2004, 04:09:47 PM »

I put rubber cement on all my rings no matter what the caliber. It gives a very good hold and lessens any chance of them moving on the heavy kickers. it is very cheep insurance

Whodaheck99 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 20, 2004, 06:08:58 AM »

Redhawk1- I used aluminum rings on it. Shot a couple hundred thur it. They work great. How do you like the thump. Steve.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 20, 2004, 10:39:06 AM »

Quote from: Whodaheck99

Redhawk1- I used aluminum rings on it. Shot a couple hundred thur it. They work great. How do you like the thump. Steve.

I put a set of weaver 4X4 rings on it and shot it 50 times today and no problems. I shot my reloads with 240 gr. Remington bullets with 52 gr. of H332. What a thump. I also shot some of my 320 gr. Cast performance over 48 gr. of H322. Man those 240 gr. loads seemed mild compared to the 320 gr.
Steve I had a 50BMG which had LIL THUMPER laser engraved on it. I think this is my new LIL THUMPER next to my BFR in 500MAG. I also have a BABY THUMPER, it is a Super Redhawk 454 Casull cut down to 3 1/2 inches. It is called a Super Street Hawk.

Whodaheck99 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 20, 2004, 12:21:03 PM »

Have fun with your new LIL THUMPER. I just got a new one in 45-70. Have fun. Steve.

haroldclark · « **Reply #7 on:** February 21, 2004, 01:48:14 PM »

I gotta say that you guys are tough hombres shooting 444s and up in a TC. I have a 444 Marlin rifle that will bring tears to my eyes.

One question: What are Weaver 4X4 Rings?

I have been using Burris Signature Zee rings with the inserts and my scope is moving all over. Seven guys were shooting TC and Encores last week and 4 of us had our scopes moving with the Burris rings.

Monday, I used 3 of the old standard Weaver rings and I shot it yesterday over 75 rounds and it didn't budge. One of my buddies was still playing Burris and his moved again. He is going to Weaver.

I'm not even going to tell you what a woosie caliber I was using and had movement.

Harold Clark

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #8 on:** February 22, 2004, 01:39:49 AM »

haroldclark, The Weaver 4X4 rings use 4 bands around the scope instead of 2. I have been replacing some of my scope rings to the Weaver 4X4. They come in different heights and some have extensions. Any time I have a scope that wants to move I put these on them. On the package they say Weaver 4X4. I use them on my Encore in 30-06 I have a set on my Sako 375 H&H and a couple of my slug barreled shot guns. I also have them on 2 of my Muzzleloaders and a couple of my pistols. I have never had a scope move with them. I sent the Leupold rings back to Leupold to see it they will replace them. If I get a replacement set they will go on something with less recoil. I will stick to the Weaver 4X4.

Lawful Larry · « **Reply #9 on:** February 22, 2004, 06:36:06 AM »

You all have got my undivided attention on this subject. I will be going into new barrels of higher pressures and have wanted to find out what products I should use for the sight system.

I was worried about the scope and the extra pressure, but see that the mounts should also have the same attention paid.

From what you fellas say it sounds as if Weaver mounts and rings are a good way to go. If anyone has more to add to this subject please enlighten this novice! :grin:

LL

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 22, 2004, 06:51:18 AM »

Lawful Larry, I am not saying Leupold rings are not good, but from my personal experience, I have had 2 sets of Leupold top of the line rings fail. I have not had any of the Weaver 4X4 rings fail, and I have them on big recoil guns. But you are right, you need to make sure you have good rings as well as scopes when using heavy recoil guns. Well good luck into the higher pressure world of shooting.

KYODE · « **Reply #11 on:** February 22, 2004, 08:02:51 AM »

15" 7-08 with 2 signature rings= no scope movement. :?

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #12 on:** February 22, 2004, 08:14:47 AM »

7-08 not quit the same as a 444 Marlin in the recoil department. Glad you are have good success with your rings.

But my problem was not with movement. I had a problem with them busting. Scope held in place though. :grin:

haroldclark · « **Reply #13 on:** February 22, 2004, 09:12:06 AM »

I am pleased to hear that you had no movement with the Zee rings. Are you using the Signature Zee rings with the plastic inserts?

If you are, I want to know what you are going right. I have 4 brand new pair of them and I bought them specifically for my Contenders and Encore.

My 308 Encore has not been tested since I reset them. I used emory paper to rough up the interior surfaces and replaced them.

I talked to Burris Support last week and they guy says get a baseball Rosin Bag and put rosin inside the rings next to the scope. I sent that info to my shooting group and one of the guys is trying it, but he hasn't tested it yet either.

I have one buddy that used the plain Burris Zee rings with metal contact like normal rings with the scope. His has not moved since original installation. He is shooting a Bullberry 7-30 Waters Improved and it bucks and snorts rather impressively.

Harold Clark

KYODE · « **Reply #14 on:** February 22, 2004, 10:00:01 AM »

yep, burris signature with plasic inserts. i have several sets, but 7-08 is the biggest kicker. i do have a set of standard zee rings(3rings) on a 14" 44mag that is fine also.
didn't do anything special to them other than clean with alcohol to remove any oils etc. from the plastic inserts. i think that may have been in the instructions, can't remember. :roll:
how are they moving? sliding, twisting?
on standard rings, if they don't come with it already, i add friction pads. just any sticky back paper cut to size, and stuck to inside of the rings. don't know how that would work with the plastic inserts, but maybe worth a try. :?

Keith L · « **Reply #15 on:** February 22, 2004, 02:49:36 PM »

My guess is that Leupold will make good on them. Their reputation is quite good for customer service. The system you used with the quidk release is the most expensive and in my opinion the weakest in their line. I have their mounts/rings on most of my guns and have never had a problem. I don't have anything near as hard recoiling as you have, so my exerience is not relevant. With those big kickers I would use multipal rings, etc. Good luck!

haroldclark · « **Reply #16 on:** February 22, 2004, 05:07:41 PM »

Kyode: The scopes are moving forward and torquing to the right. The turret is what stops them from moving fore and aft once it gets there, but the right movement continues if you hadn't noticed the movement.

It doesn't take much right movement to be noticed. Last match, one guy fired three rounds of 7 TCU in a 14" and it torqued.

Burris sent me the little sticky papers to put on the plastic inserts. I used two of them. One went on the Weaver Ring that replaced the Burris and the other went on the scope right in front of that ring. I made a felt tip marker on both stickies so that i could tell if the scope moved at all.

No movement occurred.

Harold Clark

billybob hunter · « **Reply #17 on:** March 06, 2004, 08:26:01 AM »

Harold,

I've been using the Zee Signature rings since they came out and have yet to have one slip. I also have many friends that use them too with no problems.

You're doing something wrong or have faulty or the incorrect equipment.

I even put oil under the rings to avoid rust formation and have never had any slip.

How much torque are you using when you tighten them down? You should be using a lot of twist. I tighten mine down to where the metal of the top and bottom rings almost touch.

Or it is possible that you have offset rings that are not allowing for full contact. Check the number on the outside (rounded not flat) side and look carefully at the number. If it's not a 0 (zero) then you have offset rings and that may be your problem.

If both your numbers aren't zero then they should match except one should have a + (plus) sign and one a - (minus) sign.

Example is +20 goes with -20 and +10 goes with -10 and last but not least +5 goes with -5.

If none of these work then Burris can help or you can be more specific about all your details here and we can hopefully help.

$bob$

billybob hunter · « **Reply #18 on:** March 06, 2004, 08:29:52 AM »

Sorry... Dupe... <sigh>

$bob$

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #19 on:** March 06, 2004, 09:17:52 AM »

Leupold sent me a new set of rings at no charge. I will use them on something that does not have excessive recoil. :grin:

haroldclark · « **Reply #20 on:** March 06, 2004, 09:29:53 AM »

Bob,
You may be very right about the tightening. I have been very cautious about over tightening them since I have tightened one so tight that the under screw surface in the top ring popped out the bottom. Burris Support told me to tighten them without fear and if I ruin one they will replace it. There is a certain amount of comfort in that, but the hassle is a pain to deal with.

I recently replaced the Burris with three old fashion Weaver Rings and the problem was solved on the Encore 7mm BR barrel.

However, on the Encore 308 barrel, I tightened the crap out of them and shot it yesterday with no movement. The loads used yesterday were not full house 308s, but the lack of movement was encouraging.

All the advise about the ring insert combinations is an excellent point and I did not have that issue. I have used Burris Sig Zees many times before on Rifles. The Encore presented more recoil and torque to deal with. There will be more experimentation since I recently bought 4 sets of the Zee Sigs.

Thanks for your input.

Harold

billybob hunter · « **Reply #21 on:** March 06, 2004, 09:38:27 AM »

Harold,

You're certainly welcome. :-)

There are other rings that are also very good and many of those are much cheaper than the Zee Signatures but I've never seen any that were so adjustable and that NEVER, EVER marked a scope, even a little bit.

Make mine a Zee Sig.... :wink:

$bob$

444encore · « **Reply #22 on:** March 06, 2004, 08:54:03 PM »

Redhawk,
I must remind you of the age old mantra. " Fool me once, your fault,,, fool me twice my fault." If a set of rings failed on me I wouldn't try another set of the same.
I started out with 3 Millet rings on my .444 and they're still in place. These are good rings in combination with an aluminum Weaver base,,, even if they are your 3rd choice. Assuming you're using the same Millet rings as I am ,you should have no more trouble.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #23 on:** March 07, 2004, 12:37:46 AM »

444encore, I went to the Weaver 4X4 on my 444 Marlin barrel and they are doing fine. I should have bought them in the first place. I have the Weaver 4X4 on a lot of my other guns and have had no problems at all. I really do not know what I am going to do with the Leupold rings as of yet. I do know they will not go on one of my heavy recoil guns.

Lawful Larry · « **Reply #24 on:** March 07, 2004, 05:18:54 AM »

Thanks for all the good advice. I will need it as I just purchased a new .375 JDJ barrel yesterday at the local gun show. I am looking to place a Burris scope on it and will use your info on the mounts and rings.

One bit of information that a friend gave me. He stated that I should use alcohol to clean the scope and rings and then use rosin to stop and movement. He said he got that info from an article from a big game hunter in Africa. Sounds like a good idea. Anyone else hear of this method?

Now to find some rosin. :wink:

Lawful Larry

Lawful Larry · « **Reply #25 on:** March 07, 2004, 05:21:11 AM »

Thanks for all the good advice. I will need it as I just purchased a new .375 JDJ barrel yesterday at the local gun show. I am looking to place a Burris scope on it and will use your info on the mounts and rings.

One bit of information that a friend gave me. He stated that I should use alcohol to clean the scope and rings and then use rosin to stop and movement. He said he got that info from an article from a big game hunter in Africa. Sounds like a good idea. Anyone else hear of this method?

Now to find some rosin. :wink:

Lawful Larry

rickyp · « **Reply #26 on:** March 07, 2004, 11:27:31 AM »

When I install ALL my scopes, I clean them well then I put a good coat of rubber cement on the inside of the rings and let them dry.

this works well and if i ever need to remove the scope the rubber cement comes right off and doesnt leave a mark

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #27 on:** March 09, 2004, 10:13:19 AM »

You all got me looking at the .375 JDJ now. :lol:

rickyp · « **Reply #28 on:** March 09, 2004, 10:28:06 AM »

you will never look at that 444 once you get a 375 jdj and have it set up right.