S&W 317 ?'s

[41 magnum]

Can anyone tell me if the 3" barrel is THAT much more accurate--at say 8-10 ft---than the 1 7/8" barrel?
 
I need to be able to hit an orange size target reliably at that distance.
 
Thanks
 
ole John

[Couger]

 
Good question!  I too am interested in the 3inch M317.  Wish it was offerred with a 4in bbl, or even a 5incher!
 
No way I'd want a revolver in .22LR with a bbl less than 2inches. 

[Keith L]

Good question!  I too am interested in the 3inch M317.  Wish it was offerred with a 4in bbl, or even a 5incher!
 
No way I'd want a revolver in .22LR with a bbl less than 2inches. 

WHY?

[Couger]

Good question!  I too am interested in the 3inch M317.  Wish it was offerred with a 4in bbl, or even a 5incher!
 
No way I'd want a revolver in .22LR with a bbl less than 2inches. 

WHY?

Why?  do you have need for a 40 grain boolit with questionable accuracy, going 600fps if you're lucky? 

[Couger]

Can anyone tell me if the 3" barrel is THAT much more accurate--at say 8-10 ft---than the 1 7/8" barrel?
 
I need to be able to hit an orange size target reliably at that distance.
 
Thanks  ole John

Per your original post, John.  With a 3" bbl I'd expect a .22LR HG (wheelie or semi)  to be a huge improvement over the 1 7/8" model.  But I'm still not able to tell you so from personal experience. 
 
But in a Phoenix Arms HP22 in .22LR (with its 3.0" bbl with std ammo)  I can tell you THAT piece is an excellent shooter with good accuracy at much more than just 10 feet. 
 
However I'd want a wheelgun over that Phoenix.

[darkgael]

Why?  do you have need for a 40 grain boolit with questionable accuracy, going 600fps if you're lucky? 

Actually it does better than that. I have a 317 Airlite 1 7/8ths barrel that I have used a great deal and have chrono'd a number of times.
40 grain SV gets around 800 fps. It delivers approximately the same ME as the 50 grain FMJ .25 ACP.
It ain't a target pistol but will shoot well if you practice.
Pete

[mcwoodduck]

I think the intended use of the revolver is going to dictate the barrel length. 
For years S&W had the J frame 3" to 4" adjustable sight 22 and 22 mag KIT guns.  used in the field or tackel box.  Designed as a field gun to shoot small to medium game accuratly.
I think the less than 3" barrels with fixed sights are more for personal defense where shots will be close and on larger targets.  I think these would be harder to use on small game and make hits like on a squirrel at 50 feet. 

[Keith L]

If you want a longer barrel because you want the longer sight radius that is fine.  If you think you are gaining velocity with a longer barrel that is not so true.  We have cronoed similar CF revolvers with different barrel length and with some you even loose velocity with longer barrels.  With practice the accuracy issue can pretty much go away too.

[Couger]

 
[For now] I'll defer to you guys with more experience with these short .22's.  But the gain in velocity between 2 and 4 inches isn't as slight if the difference was between 16 and 18 inches!
 
At 2 inches (or 1 7/8), with that length the Long Rifle (or other RF) is extremely inefficient!  Most of the powder is burned before the bullet leaves the chamber, altho gas expansion and acceleration is dramatic darned important until going at least 4-6 inches, according to what some gun labs and supressor mnfcrs have written!
 
Not saying the snubbies don't fulfill their roles.
 
Woodduck's point however, about barrel lengths reflecting their purposes with these rimfires is VERY GOOD!
 
But just for everyone's ingo, I met a fellow who thought it would be great (with his buddy), for the both of them to buy North American Arms .22WMR's with the 1inch barrel.
 
After embarrassing himself in front of a bunch of ladies he instructed in a HG class, when he tried to hit a one gallon milk jug (of water), he continued to miss until his 4th or 5th shot at about 3 feet!  Bullet finally punched a hole into the jug and was found after the water mostly leanked out!
 
Says that little piece now just occupies a spot in his safe.     
 
Learned this [anecdote] when looking for info about the 4inch Mini-Master version of that mini-revolver, to use as an ultralight kitgun / survival piece.      [For now] said I'd defer to you more experienced guys since I don't yet have my Mini-Master. 
 
Also remeber when its easy to find 2inch M34's back in the 80's.  Good solidly made S&W revolvers!  But never thought they were good for much. Nowadays with a Stinger or Velocitor could definitely screw up a THUG's day!  But they are still kinda smallish! 

[Couger]

ADDED:  Would love to have a 3 or 4inch roundbutt M317, but any of those airweight S&W's are pricey!  ($800 ?)
 
High Standard made several models of double action .22 revolvers, including the various versions of the Sentinel,  9-shooters.
 
But they're highly sought and getting scarcer and scarcer. 
 
Also when perusing Numrich (GunPartsCorp.com),
their stocks of parts are drying up - steadily.  So be advised.     

[Keith L]

In a revolver the gap between barrel and chamber lets out LOTS of gas.  Even in tight guns.  The difference between a 2" and a 4" is far less than you think.  It may even be the 4" is slower because of friction.  Crono some and see for yourself. 

[mcwoodduck]

If you want a longer barrel because you want the longer sight radius that is fine.  If you think you are gaining velocity with a longer barrel that is not so true.  We have cronoed similar CF revolvers with different barrel length and with some you even loose velocity with longer barrels.  With practice the accuracy issue can pretty much go away too.

Years ago some time in the mid 80's, Guns and ammo put out a gunlore edition that went over a lot of facts adn fiction of the shooting world.  One was battel length.  They used a Dan Wesson 357 pistol pack kit and showed from no barrel to 15" barrel and velocity increased as barrel lengths were added to 10 or  12" at 15" I remember the speeds falling.  and the spped from none and 2" being a lot slower than the 4".  I have seen this in my shooting as well the 2" revolvers with the same ammo can not knock over some steel targets that the 4" and 6" revolvers drive down. 

[Keith L]

Whatever you want to think.

[mcwoodduck]

Keith,
I amn not going to argue with you, I am showing what information I had and at some point I will get my reloading book back out and find the data as that book is what them in the storage garage. 
But I can tell you in my experience that shooting a steel shoot with a 38 shooting both my 2" dective special and the couple of 4" guns I own or the 6" all with the same ammo.  The same hits out of the 4" or the 2" and I had very different results.  Now it could be the difference between the gap of a Colt Vs S&W it could be the difference bewteen the 2" or the 4".  It could be the difference between shooting a real 38 Special and a 357 mag shooting 38's.  But the 4" hits would drive the steel and the 2" would not.  Clearly with the same ammo and similar hits on the steel plate dueling tree the only differnce would be the speed of the bullet and the 2" Detective Special did not move the steel plates that the longer barrels did.   

[Hank08]

Ole John, in answer to your question about accuracy, there would be NO difference in the accuracy at 10' between a 1 7/8" and a 3" if both were installed in a Ransom rest. A 3" heavy barrel might give an inexperienced shooter a small advantage over a light 1 7/8" barrel but otherwise no difference. H08

[Mike in Virginia]

I have a recently published magazine (American Frontiersman) and one of the articles compares the 3" 317 and the Ruger LCR in .22LR with a barrel almost 2" long.  The writer tested 6 different .22 brands from 15 yards off sandbags, attempting to develop an opinion which one would make the best trail gun.  Of the 6 loads tested out of both guns, none of them showed very good groups, but 5 out of 6 showed the Ruger to be more accurate.  He blamed some of that on the V notch rear sight of the 317 coupled with the green fiber optic, a set up that in my opinion is the worst possible for accuracy.  Maybe good for getting on a target quickly, but certainly not for precision, IMO. 
 
I went through several .22s to find one that suited me for serious one-gun carry on fishing trips and hiking and squirrel hunting, and I ended up with a Mark III Hunter.  After replacing the awful V notch and green front sight on that 7" gun, the accuracy is like a rifle.  A little more difficult to tote though than a small revolver. 

[Mtwoodson]

Yes, simply yes.

[Plumbous1]

Guys, the OP is talking about finishing trapped critters at 3 times arms length! Muzzle velocity and foot lbs. of energy aside, a CB short will do what he needs from either length barrel. Ole John I say carry whatever weighs you down the least, you'll be able to hit the "orange". I happen to use an OM Bearcat myself.
Pb1
 
 

[gcrank1]

Im an ol' revolver guy and been messing about with snubs and longer, J thru N  in S&W, and others, in RF and CF for 30+ years. I dont pretend know it all, but I do know that Ive had a devil of a time getting consistent accuracy from small frame (read J size) over 15yds because of me; those little guys are difficult to shoot well all the time. A little bobble in sight picture, grip & hold and when the triggere breaks or in dbl. action really do twitch 'em around. Pachmayer rubber grips have helped that a lot, for me. I do wish I had kept my S&W 4" Mdl.63 22LR. The bit longer barrel does not inhibit the carry or weight factors and the increased sight radius was a plus. At 8-10' it may all be moot, IF you can make out the sights to get a good sight picture. Also, the 4" S&W fit securely into a front or back Levi's pocket without slipping too low unlike the snubs.
All that said, and having a snubbie Charter Arms Pathfinder for comparison, I am really liking the Ruger SR-22 as the 'kit-gun' now. Not much bigger in OL size, not lumpy, light enough to not weigh me down, sights I can find, and way accurate enough. I am surprised how much I like it because I didnt expect to and it wasnt MY latest lust (so I should be more objective in its appraisal).

[mcwoodduck]

Im an ol' revolver guy and been messing about with snubs and longer, J thru N  in S&W, and others, in RF and CF for 30+ years. I dont pretend know it all, but I do know that Ive had a devil of a time getting consistent accuracy from small frame (read J size) over 15yds because of me; those little guys are difficult to shoot well all the time. A little bobble in sight picture, grip & hold and when the triggere breaks or in dbl. action really do twitch 'em around. Pachmayer rubber grips have helped that a lot, for me. I do wish I had kept my S&W 4" Mdl.63 22LR. The bit longer barrel does not inhibit the carry or weight factors and the increased sight radius was a plus. At 8-10' it may all be moot, IF you can make out the sights to get a good sight picture. Also, the 4" S&W fit securely into a front or back Levi's pocket without slipping too low unlike the snubs.
All that said, and having a snubbie Charter Arms Pathfinder for comparison, I am really liking the Ruger SR-22 as the 'kit-gun' now. Not much bigger in OL size, not lumpy, light enough to not weigh me down, sights I can find, and way accurate enough. I am surprised how much I like it because I didnt expect to and it wasnt MY latest lust (so I should be more objective in its appraisal).

With the cost of a new 317 it may make more sense to carry one of the new Rugers SR-22s small light and a longer sight radius for a similar sized package and weight. 

[Couger]

With the cost of a new 317 it may make more sense to carry one of the new Rugers SR-22s small light and a longer sight radius for a similar sized package and weight.

The choices we make when selecting a tool in the form of a handgun!
 
I like the looks of the SR-22 and Walther pistol of similar or slightly smaller size.  I like the Ruger MkI and II I grew up with ......
 
But one criteria to help make an SA .22 pistol reliable is
the ammo needs to the same oftimes!

But I've come to appreciate MUCH MORE the ability to take a wheelgun or any cartridge or number of shots (5 to 10) and mix and match what loads I might be packing (snake or mouse shot to loads that would stop a deadly threat, two and four legged!, provided I'm packing a CF for the big stuff).
 
When this thread thread was started didn't understand the OP was interested in a piece that could dispatch his trapline's catch ......
 
Its been a awhile since I've seen any well carefully written articles on 'kit guns' specifically.
 
And an article on one or several snubby (2-inch) .22 rimfires (compared to one another) that used a wide assortment of ammo
would be a real find!  And right inline with this thread.
 
Digressing a little, after studying what a good .22RF can do in a snubby or kitgun at 10-20 feet shooting a snake or raccoon or grouse ..... I've also really come to appreciate what a slow-VEL .38 wadcutter or SWC (700-800fps) could do at similar range from a pocket size .357Mag with mixed ammo also pressed into that role.** 
 
** Yeah duh?  Before this thread I've never used a .357 for SG or rabbit hunting - for example!  Need to rectify that shortcoming. 

[mcwoodduck]

I used to be the one that carried a bunch of different ammo for differnet animals and senarios. 
I have found that the CCI ammo has the least amount of FTF of the rimfire rounds, well other then the RWS stuff.
I have found that the standard grade of 22 LR works well and the Ultra high speed stuff just makes a mess out of game.
A brick of Mini Mags will run almost any semi auto (high standard early frames Excluded) for a long time with out a Failure to feed or fire. 
Yes snake shot works well but so does 3 rounds of mini mags to kill a snake.  And that same first round can shoot a squirrel, rabbit or other small game with out having to have a black belt in revolver to rotate the cylinder to the right spot with out making noise or large movements.  When I got a Ruger 44 Mag I bought a whole bunch of ammo for deer hunting and for small game and snake shot for dove, quail, or woodcock.  Then I realized that I was never going to be able to load or unload the gun quickly and quietly enough to get a shot off on any of the animals as I stumbled across them in the field.  It was easier to carry a SXS shotgun with bird shot and a slug and a 22 pistol.  Made it so I never saw any game.  Becasue before as I saw deer I had a 22 or a shot gun with bird shot, as I saw small game I had a Deer rifle.   
Carrying two pistols can work.  22 in a shoulder holster and a CF on he hip or Vice versa if that is all you are carrying.  If you are carrying a shotgun then only the 22 is needed and if you are carrying a 22 rifle then the CF is only needed.  And if a CF rifle then carry the 22 Pistol. 
I was just pointing out that if you are going to spend X on a 317 you can get a small semi auto, with a longer sight radius for less. 
 

[Couger]

 
Interesting ideas Wood'uck!
 
But in snake country with my 9-shot .22LR Sentinel or 6-shot .357 Ruger, only the first 2 cylinders would have snake loads or wadcutters, and the other cylinders loaded with regular rounds for other scenarios that could be called for.
 
Where I'd want snake shot oftimes could be around rocky or lava-rock country where riccohettes might be a disaster, esp up close (measured in feet, not yards).  Actually the 700fps wadcutters could be used in your examples!  and probably not riccohette too much.

[gcrank1]

FWIW, this past Sat. I put all six from a Charter Arms Pathfinder (new edition) snubbie into ta group smaller than an average orange at 13+'  and the chrono averaged just over 900fps for them with the bulk pack Win. Xpert HV-HP 22LR. After reading a bunch of 'speculatin' on various forums about the 'dismal' velo's of 22LR from snubbies and short pocket autos I was pleasantly surprised.
No speculatin', just real data.