Author Topic: DOD refuses purple hearts for Ft Hood survivors, might hurt murderers trial.  (Read 689 times)

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Offline powderman

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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/03/30/defense-department-says-giving-purple-heart-to-fort-hood-survivors-would-hurt/

Defense Department says giving Purple Heart to Fort Hood survivors would hurt Hasan trial
By Pamela Browne, Catherine Herridge
Published March 30, 2013
FoxNews.com

 Nov. 10, 2009: U.S. Army soldiers salute their fallen comrades during the III Corps and Fort Hood Memorial Ceremony at Fort Hood, Texas.Reuters
Legislation that would award the injured from the 2009 Fort Hood shooting the Purple Heart would adversely affect the trial of Maj. Nidal Hasan by labeling the attack terrorism, according to a Defense Department document obtained by Fox News.

The document comes following calls from survivors and their families for the military honor, because they say Fort Hood was turned into a battlefield when Hasan opened fire during the November 2009 attack. Fox News is told that the DOD “position paper” is being circulated specifically in response to the proposed legislation.

The document reads in part:

"Passage of this legislation could directly and indirectly influence potential court-martial panel members, witnesses, or the chain of command, all of whom exercise a critical role under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ).  Defense counsel will argue that Major Hasan cannot receive a fair trial because a branch of government has indirectly declared that Major Hasan is a terrorist -- that he is criminally culpable."

A source with knowledge of the position paper told Fox News that DOD is putting on a full-court press by sending senior officials, including generals, to meet with lawmakers in an effort to block support.

But Neal Sher, counsel for the Fort Hood families involved in a federal lawsuit against the department, told Fox News that the document -- an "official Army response" to the request for Purple Heart status -- is "an utter outrage" and that it was not surprising given it comes from the same department which labeled the attack "workplace violence."

"This is a cynical travesty. What the government has done by making this statement is guarantee that anything done to help the victims will effectively prevent or impair Hasan's prosecution. There was no reason for the government to put this kind of a statement in writing, even if it were true (which it is not),"  Sher said via email.

Sher represents families who are suing the Defense Department over the shooting which killed 13 and injured dozens at the Texas Army base in 2009.

Fox News was the first to report in 2011 that DOD was handling the attack, in which survivors say the shooter shouted “Allahu Akbar” as he opened fire – in the context of workplace violence. Fox News was the first TV network, in June 2012, to interview the survivors. 

The Defense Department document says that to expand the Purple Heart criteria to include “domestic criminal acts or domestic terror attacks would be a dramatic departure” from traditional criteria.

“The Army objects to (the proposal) because it would undermine the prosecution of Major Nidal Hasan by materially and directly compromising Major Hasan’s ability to receive a fair trial. This provision will be viewed as setting the stage for a formal declaration that Major Hasan is a terrorist, on what is now the eve of trial. Such a situation, prior to trial, would fundamentally compromise the fairness and due process of the pending trial,” the document said. 

It continues: “Moreover, the effect of such an act by Congress would be to deprive the victims of these crimes the right to see justice done.”

But Sher said the Army's legal arguments that such a situation prior to a trial would fundamentally compromise fairness and due process are especially troubling given the Holder Justice Department wanted to prosecute the self-described architect of 9/11 Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and his four co-conspirators in a New York City federal court.

"Seriously? We could try KSM no problem, but helping out Hasan's victims creates due process problems?" Sher said.

Sher said the Fort Hood families he represents in the federal suit find it hurtful that DOD would now claim "such an unprecedented action would thwart the real and lasting measure that will bring closure to the grieving and harmed victims and families -- the trial itself."

While the document claims "the Government has vigilantly tended to the needs of the victims and families since the tragic events of November, 5 2009," Sher said the facts show the Army has failed to live up to its creed that no soldier will be left behind.

The Defense Department did not immediately return a request for comment from Fox News.
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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Offline m-g Willy

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 They should get the purple heart,, they were wounded while serving their country.
The vermin raghead isn't an American.
He lost all his rights when he showed his loyality to the enemy by killing American troops while shouting his islamic war cry.
And for further proof that he isn't an American serviceman is the fact that he wants to be able to show his true colors by growing a beard like his owncountrymen have.
At least that's how I look at it.

Offline Dee

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I'm not sure a muslim can have a country. He is what he is, and I find it even more offensive that he was a so-called "counselor" for REAL American soldiers suffering from PTSD. He was consorting with the enemy all the while, and the Pentagon KNEW IT!.
Purple hearts for the wounded? And then some.
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Offline powderman

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They should get the purple heart,, they were wounded while serving their country.
The vermin raghead isn't an American.
He lost all his rights when he showed his loyality to the enemy by killing American troops while shouting his islamic war cry.
And for further proof that he isn't an American serviceman is the fact that he wants to be able to show his true colors by growing a beard like his owncountrymen have.
At least that's how I look at it.

 
M-GWILLY. Good post Sir, true. Hasan is no American, he's a muslim. No such critter as an American muslim. Then hasans brother imam obama classifies the murders as workplace violence, rather than the terrorist act it was. Workplace violence my aching butt.
 
Hasan was caught in the act, no doubt of his guilt, he should have been put down like a rabid animal, and it's not too late for that either. I wonder how many $millions have been spent keeping his worthless, godless butt alive and well cared for?? POWDERMAN.  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
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What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
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Offline D Fischer

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For some reason it has always seemed to me that the Purple Heart was only given to soldier's who got hurt, shot, stabbed ect., in war. I feel very sorry for the guy's at Ft Hood, but they were not fighting an enemy when it happened.

Offline Dee

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Mr. Fischer, you do have a very valid point there. I think the push to get the Purple Heart has something to do with getting benefits, but your point is VALID just the same, and you have my attention on that fact. Hmmmmmm
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Offline spruce

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If it was a simple case of workplace violence then, no they wouldn't be eligible for a Purple Heart.
 
However,  Hasan was clearly an agent of Al Quaeda (sp?), and while acting as an enemy agent during the war on terror killed and wounded U.S. Soldiers.  I don't see any difference between him attacking them here on US soil or on some battlefield halfway around the world.
 
Of course Barry has chosen not to acknowledge that a war on terror exists.  So, using his logic, (not mine) I guess none of the guys killed or wounded in Iraq or Afghanistan would qualify for a purple heart either.

Offline mcwoodduck

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I do not know if the actions of the Major define what the Purple heart is awarded for.
It says wounded in the face of the enemy, or due to enemy action.  A fellow soldier going crazy and shooting may not fit the bill.  Changing the awarding of the medal may lesson the other recipients of the award.    I understand they were wounded, that they were killed while in defense of the nation but it may not warrent a purple hart. 

Offline Oldshooter

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I wont get into the Purple heart award but these soldiers(and their survivors) have every right to what ever Benefits anyone gets while serving their country. Can someone explain the benefits of Purple heart versus just shot on the base by a Terrorist.
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Offline Swampman

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For some reason it has always seemed to me that the Purple Heart was only given to soldier's who got hurt, shot, stabbed ect., in war. I feel very sorry for the guy's at Ft Hood, but they were not fighting an enemy when it happened.

Good post.......
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline Dee

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Well, I have been to Ft. Hood numerous times, and have been inside the base. It is not considered a "war zone", and the soldiers there other than gate guards are unarmed because it is not a "war zone". These soldiers in fact were not deployed, but were at a base in Texas. SO! I believe D Fischer has a valid point, whether anyone here agrees or not. The debate is not whether the soldiers deserve medical benefits to cover ALL THEIR INJURIES, and whether the survivors of those killed at Ft. Hood deserve their benefits as if they were killed during a deployment. THEY DO! But the culprit here is the Army concerning compensation, and total failure at identifying a security risk.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Online nw_hunter

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Purple Hearts are reserved for those wounded or killed in a combat situation by the enemy period.
The killing and wounding of these poor folks was not in a combat zone. I had a good friend while serving,who was wounded by a crazy soldier at Ft Benning. He was never considered for , nor did he expect a Purple Heart.The soldiers and civilians deserve to see the crazy maniac pay dearly for what he did to them IMO.
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Offline BAGTIC

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My brother and also  the nephew of a close friend were involved in similar decisions during the 60's and 70's. My brother's Purple Heart was rescinded. The other young man received the Soldier's Medal posthumously but no Purple Heart.
People who do not qualify for the awards should not receive them just so a lot of people feel all 'touchy-feely' otherwise they will start cranking them out like so many Grenada trinkets. They will get any other benefits appropriate.

Offline gypsyman

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Instead of a Purple Heart, give them back their M-16 with one bullet, and let them take care of this pos, who shouldn't have been sucking our air for the last 3 years. gypsyman
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Offline spruce

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Gentlemen,
 
Not to be argumentative, but if you do a search and read the CRITERIA for being eligible for the purple heart you will see that wounds received as the result of a TERRORIST attack is specifically mentioned.
 
As an aside, you will also notice that it is not up to the PRESIDENT to determine whether or not an action is in fact a terrorist attack.  Of course we all know that in this case the dictator usurped this power from his subordinates.
 
What it boils down to is whether or not you agree that this was an incident of workplace violence or an act of a terrorist.  My opinion is that Hasan was a terrorist, not a disgruntled worker!

Offline Oldshooter

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Oh he was disgruntled alright, because he is and was a terrorist. Been that way for a while and there is proof of it, in his service record. However it isn't parallel to the agenda to make that known publically
 
Quote

Supervisors of the residency program received complaints about Hasan's preaching about Islam to patients, the official said, adding that Hasan was reprimanded and told that his job was to treat patients, not indoctrinate them about religion.
Relatives have said Hasan became more religious after the death of his parents, who were Muslims but not observant. His parents died in Virginia in 1998 and 2001.
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/nov/12/nation/na-hasan12
 
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Offline powderman

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Gentlemen,
 
Not to be argumentative, but if you do a search and read the CRITERIA for being eligible for the purple heart you will see that wounds received as the result of a TERRORIST attack is specifically mentioned.
 
As an aside, you will also notice that it is not up to the PRESIDENT to determine whether or not an action is in fact a terrorist attack.  Of course we all know that in this case the dictator usurped this power from his subordinates.
 
What it boils down to is whether or not you agree that this was an incident of workplace violence or an act of a terrorist.  My opinion is that Hasan was a terrorist, not a disgruntled worker!

 
SPRUCE. Of course hasan is a muslim terrorist and it was a terrorist attack. Imam obama called it workplace violence to take the heat from his muslim brothers. Hasan sould be dirt by now. Fact is, we are in a global war against that ol cancer islam, or GWOI. POWDERMAN.  >:( >:(
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
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What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Online nw_hunter

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Gentlemen,
 
Not to be argumentative, but if you do a search and read the CRITERIA for being eligible for the purple heart you will see that wounds received as the result of a TERRORIST attack is specifically mentioned.
 
As an aside, you will also notice that it is not up to the PRESIDENT to determine whether or not an action is in fact a terrorist attack.  Of course we all know that in this case the dictator usurped this power from his subordinates.
 
What it boils down to is whether or not you agree that this was an incident of workplace violence or an act of a terrorist.  My opinion is that Hasan was a terrorist, not a disgruntled worker!

 
SPRUCE. Of course hasan is a muslim terrorist and it was a terrorist attack. Imam obama called it workplace violence to take the heat from his muslim brothers. Hasan sould be dirt by now. Fact is, we are in a global war against that ol cancer islam, or GWOI. POWDERMAN.  >:( >:(


We have re written the American dictionaries, (gay) is no longer a happy fellow, but a perverted one. A Terrorist is anyone the Government deems one. The Nobel Peace Prize means nothing, Hero's are sports figures, we might as well make  all military medals available to anyone that signs up.

As a Veteran, I say leave the Purple Heart alone. It belongs to those who deserve it on the Battlefield, against the enemy, not on base against a crazy SOB that for "What ever reason" decides to kill their fellow soldiers.Create a new medal if we need to so people can cope ::) But leave the Purple Heart alone for those who have earned it, and the ones to come later.Hasan was a soldier in the US Army. Not just a soldier, but an officer. Should he have been? Not in my book, but they never asked me ;) Thing is......He was a fellow soldier, not an enemy on the battlefield. He is a Cold Bloodied Murderer. IMO, he should be treated like any other one.Given a fair trial and given the death penalty.
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Offline dwalk

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purple heart or not...the soldiers should be awarded any and all benefits that accompany the PH.


award Hasan "the 9mm award"...one to the head.
don't squat while wearing your spurs...will rogers

Offline powderman

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Quote
Hasan was a soldier in the US Army. Not just a soldier, but an officer. Should he have been? Not in my book, but they never asked me ;) Thing is......He was a fellow soldier, not an enemy on the battlefield. He is a Cold Bloodied Murderer. IMO, he should be treated like any other one.Given a fair trial and given the death penalty.

 
HUNTER. Mostly agreed Sir, but hasan is a muslim, I doubt he was ever a fellow soldier, just another muslim awaiting orders, I never believed he planned this by himself. Yes, he needs to die. POWDERMAN.  :o :o
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
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http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline SHOOTALL

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For some reason it has always seemed to me that the Purple Heart was only given to soldier's who got hurt, shot, stabbed ect., in war. I feel very sorry for the guy's at Ft Hood, but they were not fighting an enemy when it happened.

I see your point but if the troops at Hickam field and sailors at Pearl Harbor got them then surely these troops should also get the medal since in all three cases the troops were attacked at a base not in a war zone at the time. In all three cases the attacks were sneak attacks and can only be seen as terrorist acts. Keep in mind the Japanese declaration of war was delivered late.
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Offline spruce

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Shootall - exactly my point.  The existence of a state of war, or being in a designated combat zone are not criteria for being eligible for a purple heart, never has been.
 
Also, an act of terrorism DOES make one eligible for a purple heart - it's specifically mentioned in the criteria.

Online nw_hunter

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For some reason it has always seemed to me that the Purple Heart was only given to soldier's who got hurt, shot, stabbed ect., in war. I feel very sorry for the guy's at Ft Hood, but they were not fighting an enemy when it happened.

I see your point but if the troops at Hickam field and sailors at Pearl Harbor got them then surely these troops should also get the medal since in all three cases the troops were attacked at a base not in a war zone at the time. In all three cases the attacks were sneak attacks and can only be seen as terrorist acts. Keep in mind the Japanese declaration of war was delivered late.


The United States was attacked at Pearl by a foreign Entity. Not someone wearing the same uniform.

Reagan even changed the criteria for The PH during his term. No Civilians are eligible.The eligibilty for it has changed several times since GW The first GW.

I guess the Commander in Thief could make everyone who puts on a uniform eligible if he's a mind to.I think most of us that signed up didn't think about citations and awards anyway.We all have opinions! Mine is......Give it to those wounded in a war zone, by the enemy we have declared war on. Now I'm through with my rant ;)
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Offline SHOOTALL

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For some reason it has always seemed to me that the Purple Heart was only given to soldier's who got hurt, shot, stabbed ect., in war. I feel very sorry for the guy's at Ft Hood, but they were not fighting an enemy when it happened.

I see your point but if the troops at Hickam field and sailors at Pearl Harbor got them then surely these troops should also get the medal since in all three cases the troops were attacked at a base not in a war zone at the time. In all three cases the attacks were sneak attacks and can only be seen as terrorist acts. Keep in mind the Japanese declaration of war was delivered late.


The United States was attacked at Pearl by a foreign Entity. Not someone wearing the same uniform. In WW2 Germans wore American uniforms in several operations . So what's your point ? BTW Benedict Arnold Was an American military man also.

Reagan even changed the criteria for The PH during his term. No Civilians are eligible.The eligibilty for it has changed several times since GW The first GW.So which solders getting processed to leave for over seas duty were civilians ? Yes I understand the cops on duty.

I guess the Commander in Thief could make everyone who puts on a uniform eligible if he's a mind to.I think most of us that signed up didn't think about citations and awards anyway.We all have opinions! Mine is......Give it to those wounded in a war zone, by the enemy we have declared war on. Now I'm through with my rant ;)
If ya can see it ya can hit it !