Author Topic: Made a project with that oversized .44 barrel!  (Read 1163 times)

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Offline jpshaw

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Made a project with that oversized .44 barrel!
« on: April 01, 2013, 08:14:03 AM »
I've had this barrel for awhile and had problems getting a group with a scope.  .432 bore and 1/38" twist had somethng to do with it.  Last year I was checking the pawn shops for a .45-70 when a .444 with the new 1-20" twist showed up.  It came with a 3 - 9 Swift scope already and it was a shooter from the start with Hornady 265 gr Leverevolution ammo.
   Thought I would find a heavy cast bullet load at about 1200 fps to play with.  You noticed that about the turn of the century almost all our old black powder loads were switched to smokeless with a velocity of about 1200.  Sounded like fun but the change of zero I could expect would screw it up for its Hornady load and I wanted iron sights for this load anyway.
   Then I thought that the .44 was totally capable of moving up to 300 grains up to 1200 without even reaching normal pressure.  So I brought out the .44 barrel, removed the 1.5 - 4.5 Scope.  Mounted it on my SB1 frame.  Looks like this now and I like the straight stock on it too.
 

 
The older oversized barrel had one good point with the iron sights with screw adjustment instead of loosen, slide and hope.
 

 
The newer, loosen slide and hope is here.
 

 
I kinda like the new classic look but others may not.  Have some .432 sized 240 grain cast bullets and will try some 300 grain.  If I can get 6 inches with these sights it will be fun to carry around.  Any thoughts appreciated.
 

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Made a project with that oversized .44 barrel!
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2013, 08:59:50 AM »
.432" is pretty much standard for H&R 44 mags, they're SAAMI spec'd after all, those that are on the tight side of SAAMI specs are still around .430". My .432" barrel worked fine factory jacketed ammo, I also have one that's on the tight side at .4295". Best choice for the larger bore is to use 300gr Jacketed .430" or .432" cast or rechamber to 445 as many have done, 300gr jacketed at 1900+fps is easy. I rechambered both of mine, the tight bored one to 445 Supermag, and the other to 444 Marlin, both shoot jacketed great.  ;)

Tim

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Offline petemi

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Re: Made a project with that oversized .44 barrel!
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2013, 09:13:35 AM »
Mine is one of the old ones.  Theoretically supposed to have a problem.  I hadn't started reloading when I got the rifle, and here's a look at sighting it in at 50 yards with Hornady LE ammunition. It's a .445 now and shoots the same at 100.

Pete
Keep both eyes open and make the first shot good.
The growing Handi/Sportster/Pardner/Topper Family:  .22 WMR, .22-250. 223, Two Superlight 7mm-08s and one .243, .30-30,  .308, 32-20, 18 inch .356/.358 Win., Two 16.5 inch .357 Max., 18 inch 38-55 BC Carbine, 16.5 inch .445 Super Mag., .45LC, 16.5 and 22 inch .45-70s, .50 Huntsman SS, .410, 20 ga., 12 ga., 20 ga. Pardner Pump, Versa-Pack .410 - .22
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Offline jpshaw

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Re: Made a project with that oversized .44 barrel!
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2013, 09:22:00 AM »
Residing on that SB1 frame the .445 Supermag is out.  300 grains at 1900 ain't going to hunt on that frame.  Will stick with 1200.  No need to soup it up since I can use the .444 for that.  This is be a fun gun that could take a deer if necessary.  It's already taken several deer with the scope that was on it but the .444 is my Primitive season rifle now.  My .30-30 now sits on the SB2 frame that the .44 came on and it shares hunting duty with my Remington 700 7mm-08.  The shorter .30-30 just works better in an inclosed box stand and out to 200 yds it holds it's own.  My .30-30 rounds are over 2400 fps with a spire point bullet loaded too long to go through a lever action.

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Made a project with that oversized .44 barrel!
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2013, 09:36:20 AM »
Actually the 445 would do the 1200fps with less pressure than the 44mag would, and since it's a handload only round no worry about hot loaded factory ammo, the improved leade cut by the GBO 445 reamer would have even more beneficial affect whether shooting 445, 44mag or 44 Spl in it. Pete's barrel is .433" or bigger IIRC, it's also micro-groove!  ;)

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline jpshaw

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Re: Made a project with that oversized .44 barrel!
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2013, 09:50:04 AM »
I'll keep that in mind Tim.  I would actually shoot factory .44 mag off of the SB1 frame since some .44's actually  came with that frame if I'm not mistaken.  It's the 300 grains moving at 1900 that I'm not shooting on an iron frame.

Offline Ranch13

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Re: Made a project with that oversized .44 barrel!
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2013, 10:17:39 AM »
If you were trying to shoot heavier than the 240 gr bullets in that old barrel , no they won't group no matter what the speed. That slow twist won't handle anything heavier/longer than the 240's.
The old blackpowder guns were twisted around 18-22 , and shot bullets from 1.1 inches long to 1.5 inches long. The velocity was around 1200 because that's what black was capable of, and so in keeping with the same pressure limits as black, that's what the smokeless velocity was held to as well.
Also is that old barrel .432 bore or groove? there is a difference.
In the 1920's "sheeple" was a term coined by the National Socialist Party in Germany to describe people that would not vote for Hitler. In the 1930's they held Hitler as the only one that would bring pride back to Germany and bring the budget and economy back.....

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Made a project with that oversized .44 barrel!
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2013, 11:05:10 AM »
I'll keep that in mind Tim.  I would actually shoot factory .44 mag off of the SB1 frame since some .44's actually  came with that frame if I'm not mistaken.  It's the 300 grains moving at 1900 that I'm not shooting on an iron frame.

All factory H&R 44mags made 2008 and later come on SB1 frames.  ;)

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Made a project with that oversized .44 barrel!
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2013, 11:10:59 AM »
If you were trying to shoot heavier than the 240 gr bullets in that old barrel , no they won't group no matter what the speed. That slow twist won't handle anything heavier/longer than the 240's.
The old blackpowder guns were twisted around 18-22 , and shot bullets from 1.1 inches long to 1.5 inches long. The velocity was around 1200 because that's what black was capable of, and so in keeping with the same pressure limits as black, that's what the smokeless velocity was held to as well.
Also is that old barrel .432 bore or groove? there is a difference.

Lots of folks here have found that 300gr and bigger(355gr) shoot fine in their 1:38" 44 mags, just a matter of finding a good load with a bullet that fits the bore or is pushed fast enough.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,253540.msg1099487194.html#msg1099487194

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,197069.msg1099006254.html#msg1099006254

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,252118.msg1099475347.html#msg1099475347

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,211810.msg1099131165.html#msg1099131165

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,96997.msg1098243792.html#msg1098243792

Here is a target with holes punched with Beartooth 355 gr. hardcast and H110 shot at 100 yards.
 

"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline Ranch13

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Re: Made a project with that oversized .44 barrel!
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2013, 12:31:31 PM »
Yessir there's alot that do, some that say they do, and some that don't ,and some that say they don't but don't really....
Point is life is a bunch easier when you work within the parameters of how something was built and intended to be used...
In the 1920's "sheeple" was a term coined by the National Socialist Party in Germany to describe people that would not vote for Hitler. In the 1930's they held Hitler as the only one that would bring pride back to Germany and bring the budget and economy back.....

Offline gcrank1

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Re: Made a project with that oversized .44 barrel!
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2013, 01:50:11 PM »
JP, I like the way you are thinkin'  ;) .
"Halt while I adjust my accoutrements!"
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We are only temporary caretakers of the past heading toward an uncertain future
22Mag UV / 22LR  Sportster
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Offline jpshaw

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Re: Made a project with that oversized .44 barrel!
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2013, 01:51:31 AM »
Oh, I've heard too many instances where 300 and 300+ grains were shooting good from these 1/38" twist.  Now whether they will do so at moderate velocities I will have to see.  If they do, great.  If they don't I will just stick with my 240 grain.  I'm looking for an "iron sighted" load and certainly not expecting MOA groups from it.
 
One other change made some time ago, I changed the ejector to extractor by using a Dremel on the "step".  I may be the odd ball but I like extractors on my rifles and ejectors on my shotguns.  So far I haven't spent any money, just rejoined parts left over from prior builds, which to me is the best kind of project to play with.

Offline Jason F

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Re: Made a project with that oversized .44 barrel!
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2013, 01:22:29 AM »
Just slugged my talo barrel. I had. 4305 at muzzle and 430 at chamber end. Got some 240 grain hard cast gc sized at 431 gonna try in it.
handi rifles- 22 mag      22 hornet    223      7mm-08      308 chip shot     30-30 x2     30-06 shorty      358 cheez whiz     357 max     35 remington     375-08    410 rifled slug     454 casull     460 s&w     45 smokeless muzzleloader x2     45-70    50 huntsman    50-70 government shikari     20 ga.ush     12 ga.ush    12 ga.3 1/2     10 ga.imp.cyl. slug gun

Offline gcrank1

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Re: Made a project with that oversized .44 barrel!
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2013, 04:06:51 AM »
Ignorance is bliss? I sure like fitting cast bullets to the throat and seeing how they shoot, and if its OK for my purposes I dont get caught anymore in 'knowing' more than I have to. Some info just wears on me  :-\ , then I get disenchanted......
Now if something doesnt shoot well its another story, I cant stand letting it 'beat me'.
"Halt while I adjust my accoutrements!"
      ><   ->
We are only temporary caretakers of the past heading toward an uncertain future
22Mag UV / 22LR  Sportster
357Mag Schuetzen Special
45-70  SS Ultra Hunter with UV cin.lam. wood
12ga. 'Ol' Ugly OverKill', Buck barrel c/w  SpeedStock  and swap 28" x Full bird barrel, 1974

Offline jpshaw

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Re: Made a project with that oversized .44 barrel!
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2013, 02:45:54 AM »
Lots of folks here have found that 300gr and bigger(355gr) shoot fine in their 1:38" 44 mags, just a matter of finding a good load with a bullet that fits the bore or is pushed fast enough.

Now if I could just find a place where I could buy bullets (300 or 300+ grains) in groups of 10.  Hate to get a 100 ct box just to find they don't shoot that well.

Offline gcrank1

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Re: Made a project with that oversized .44 barrel!
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2013, 03:40:55 AM »
If I get a box of 50 for trials it usually takes me 50ish to mess with, loads up/down, etc., to decide, then Im out......
"Halt while I adjust my accoutrements!"
      ><   ->
We are only temporary caretakers of the past heading toward an uncertain future
22Mag UV / 22LR  Sportster
357Mag Schuetzen Special
45-70  SS Ultra Hunter with UV cin.lam. wood
12ga. 'Ol' Ugly OverKill', Buck barrel c/w  SpeedStock  and swap 28" x Full bird barrel, 1974

Offline petemi

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Re: Made a project with that oversized .44 barrel!
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2013, 03:46:21 AM »
I wouldn't call my .445 the Worlds most accurate tack driver, but it works and works well within what we expect from a heavy pistol caliber.  If it shoots two MOA at 100 that's fine.  The deer'll never know it was an inch or two off.  The .445 isn't one of my most used Handis, but I've never fed it anything it wouldn't shoot.  It's not one of the bullet on bullet Handis I'm proud to own, but It did shoot the pants off a Ruger semi- auto carbine.

I may be the odd ball but I like extractors on my rifles and ejectors on my shotguns.  So far I haven't spent any money, just rejoined parts left over from prior builds, which to me is the best kind of project to play with.

I'm another odd ball.  All my Handis are extractors.  Shotguns are ejectors.  I don't shoot shotguns enough to reload for them and don't care if I find hulls.  Even the bulk of my small game hunting is done with a rifle.  99.99% of the time I don't need a fast second shot.....I either missed and the critter is gone, I hit it and it's down, or the tag is for one only.  There's nothing here on Da U.P. that's gonna eat me if I screw up.

The big question that always comes up is speed.  Figuring I wear gloves while hunting about eleven and a half months a year,  Either for cold or bugs, I don't like the ejector.  I can pick the case out within a second or two of the time it takes me to jamb my gloved hand between the scope and the hammer to catch one.  It's difficult to catch with gloves; you can't feel it well......if I miss it, I'm digging around in snow, mud, leaves, grass, cow and horse manure, etc. to find it.  To me the bottom line is "make the first shot good" and you don't have to worry about where the brass is.

The other point I'd like to make is that if I were hunting dangerous game on the ground, it wouldn't be with a Handi.....Not unless I'd been diagnosed with terminal cancer.

Shooting off the bench, you have lots of time.  You'll want to cool the barrel between rounds.

Pete
Keep both eyes open and make the first shot good.
The growing Handi/Sportster/Pardner/Topper Family:  .22 WMR, .22-250. 223, Two Superlight 7mm-08s and one .243, .30-30,  .308, 32-20, 18 inch .356/.358 Win., Two 16.5 inch .357 Max., 18 inch 38-55 BC Carbine, 16.5 inch .445 Super Mag., .45LC, 16.5 and 22 inch .45-70s, .50 Huntsman SS, .410, 20 ga., 12 ga., 20 ga. Pardner Pump, Versa-Pack .410 - .22
[size=7.4 pt]PLEASE DONATE TO THE GBO SERVER FUND  We're closer to the goal but not there yet, we can still use more donations, thanks

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