handi rifle 30/30 cast bullet problems - UPDATE

[rp85]

hello;
 
purchased a handi rifle in 30/30 to shoot cast bullets.  the cast bullets are from a  r.c.b.s mold, 180 grain round nose, bullets are sized to .310”.  have seated bullets as deep as i dare, still the nose of the bullet will engage the rifling in the barrel.  there is @ 1/8” of rifling marks on the bullet.  what is the fix, different mold? 

if a new mold which lee mold would you suggest?  been spoiled by lee mold light weight and the high productivity of their 6 cavity mold.

don’t think it is safe to shoot these loads, have always assumed it is not safe to shoot even a cast bullet if it engages the rifling.

thanks for any input.

rp
 
UPDATE;
  sorry it took so long to reply.
 
first, thanks for the input from folks on this site.  had decided this fourth handi rifle, in 30/30 caliber, would be last if it had ejection problems.  looks like i finially found a handi rifle that ejects a fired case.  no ejection problems what so ever when firing jacketed bullets or cast bullets.  170 grain flat nose bullet, 30.0 grains of h335 or 32.0 grains of ww748, will produce 1.5” groups at 100 yards. 

the only .30 caliber cast  bullet mold i have is a rcbs two cavity mold that cast a 180 grain r.n. bullet.  with this bullet i could barely close the action.  the nose of the bullet was to large, .303”.  discovered if i took a loaded cast round, spun the case while holding 0000 steel wool on the nose,  was able to reduce the nose diameter from .303” to .301”.  at .301” then i could close the action without any problem.

using the .301” diameter on cast bullet's nose, rest of bullet sized to .310”, 16.5 grains of alliant 2400, 5 shoot group = 1”.  ecstatic is an understatement.  looks like on the fourth try we found a real keeper. 

thanks for inputs.

rp
 

 

[quickdtoo]

Loading cast bullets into the lands isn't the same as for jacketed, load em up and work the load up from your start load as long as the action will close and lock up.    Short throated 30-30 H&Rs are fairly common, an alternative is to throat ream it, but I'd try the loaded-into-the-lands first.

Tim

http://www.lasc.us/indexBrennan.htm

http://hgmould.gunloads.com/casting/oughtsixcast.htm

Another thing about hand loading cast bullets is that the bullet can be seated long and into the lands.  When loading the rifle you can actually feel the bolt camming the bullet into the throat (not necessarily a good thing for high pressure jacketed loads).  A definite advantage is that ammo loaded in the manner will enhance concentricity.  That coupled with carefully prepared brass as described earlier can lead to great success.  With cast bullets little or no change occurs in pressure as would be the case with jacked bullets.  Most of these old milsurps have generous chambers and even more generous throats.  Cast bullets that are .001 inch or more oversize of bore is a good way to fill them up, and in most cases when properly fitted a cast bullet enhance will accuracy.

[Jason F]

IMO that is the only way to shoot cast. Never crimp. Leave Enough flare on case where round will chamber fine. That keeps everything nice and centered with bore.

[Jason F]

Are you having any pressure or extraction issues?

[Goatwhiskers]

What did your bore slug at?  I presume you're shooting GC boolits.  What load?  It shouldn't hurt to seat a little deeper, there are methods used by schuetzen shooters that involve seating the boolit in the barrel then chambering the cartridge.  Many of us, especially PP shooters,  use powders much slower than the fast pistol powders commonly used with cast boolits, I think the slower pressure rise helps to cut down gas leakage which is the prime cause of leading.  You might try visiting the castboolits forum, there is a wealth of knowledge and some great people.  GW

[Jason F]

One thing to watch is not seating to deep where lube grooves protrude into case then your powder sticks to lube.

[quickdtoo]

Jason brings up a good point, a round loaded into the lands won't eject, but an extractor isn't a problem, my 35 Rem was an ejector, first time I tried unloading a round out hunting, it wouldn't eject, had to use the ejector notch I made! Needless to say I converted it to an extractor ASAP! 

Tim

[rp85]

thanks for replys.
 
o.a.l. is shorter than book, base of bullet is below the start of case neck.  bullet is gas checked, sized to .310".  load is 17.0 grains of 2400.  can close action with a little force, but case with bullet will not eject from rifle.
 
thanks again for replys.
 
rp

[Jason F]

I would suggest a smaller diameter nose profile so you can seat it out farther and get bullet back out in neck. I think that bullet you are trying is designed for the 30-06.

[sluggo]

You'll be happier with a 170 flat nose

[cbshtr]

Lee 309-170fn typically has an undersized nose which would eliminate your problem. Most cast shooters frown on that but my experience with a Remington 760 with those bullets produced very decent groups at 100 yards at hunting velocities. This mold is only available in 2 cavity and without a lot of specialty cast bullet dies it is probably the easiest fix for your particular problem.

[topper88]

Your very close and follow your instincts.  I shoot the 150 gr. RCBS which is about 155 gr. with the lube and gas check over 33 gr. of BLc (2) which is the starting load for the 150 gr. jacketed.  They are sized to .309 and shoot great out of my Handi.  My particular Handi .30-30 vintage is a heavier barrel with an ejector.  When you look at the rifling the surface area of the lands and groove are about equal if that helps.  That bullet has a crimp groove which I use and it has a nice wide band above the crimp groove which I theorize fills the throat.  Seems to be a perfect combination in mine with 1" groups at a hundred yards all day long.  Not too much unburnt powder and only case neck has some wax soot on it.  Keep at it!

[hoytcanon]

I use a 160 grain RN hard cast 0.309" bullets... and seat the bullets for a OAL of 2.60" which snugs the bullet up to the lands without engaging... they shoot very accurately and eject well with the following;

-Full; 160 Hard Cast RN, 18.0 gr/H4895, Win/W-LR, 2.600”
-Reduced; 160 Hard Cast RN, 8.0 gr/TB, Win/W-LR, 2.600”
 

[gcrank1]

Likely the bullet you are using has an ojive that is, literally, holding you back. Remember that the 30-30 originally was about a 165gr. bullet. As previously mentioned, the 'bore riding' nose bullet profiles can allow you to use the heavies and there will be no ill effects IF the bore riding nose is actually of bore (not groove) dia.
Why the 180gr., if I may ask? The 30-30 is not at its best potential with that heavy a bullet.

[petemi]

I know you got the Handi to shoot cast bullets, but I don't know why.  Economy perhaps?  Mine shoots 168 gr.  NBTs sub-MOA.  Faster and more accurately without any problems.  I use cast bullets, but only where I want them with lower velocity, lighter weight gas checked bullets.  Mostly for plinking. The Handi has a huge advantage over the levergun.  It will shoot long loaded, pointed bullets.  The leveers will not.  I have a Marlin 336.  If I want to shoot cast, I do it in that rifle.

Pete

[petemi]

I know you got the Handi to shoot cast bullets, but I don't know why.  Economy perhaps?  Mine shoots 168 gr.  NBTs sub-MOA. faster and more accurately without any problems.  I use cast bullets, but only when I want them with lower velocity, lighter weight gas checked bullets.  Mostly for plinking. The Handi has a huge advantage over the levergun.  It will shoot long loaded, pointed bullets.  The levers will not.  I have a Marlin 336.  If I want to shoot cast, I do it in that rifle staying within its throat and action limitations.

Pete

[rp85]

thanks for input.
 
using the 180 grain mold because it's the only .30 caliber mold i have.  got the mold years ago to shoot cast bullets in my 30/06.
 
why shoot cast bullets, yes they are cheap, but i just get a real kick just shooting this bullet at a target 300 yards away.  it's bang, look up over the barrel, and just watch the bullet the berm, splat. 
 
just playing is all it is.  still it would be neat to harvest a deer with a cast 30/30 bullet.
 
thanks again for the input.
 
rp

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

if you play a bit with alloys, you might be able to bring that nose down somewhat, it might not take much.

once case, and aged, try pushing it into the muzzle nose first.  if it goes in with slight resistance of more, that is good.

if it just slides in with no resistance, but does leave some scoring on the nose, that would probably work best for you.

you can try to size only the nose, IF you can get someone to make you a sizer to that diameter, or if you are able to make it yourself. 

What alloy are you using now?  More lead usually brings the size down, as well, in a 30/30, makes for a better hunting bullet.  you can add as much as 70% lead/30% Wheelweights and still get good hunting bullets, as long as they'll shoot for you.

[rp85]

note update on 5/13/13.

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

Good to hear you found some success

a 30-30 is capable of pushing cast to the same, or more velocity than jacketed when it comes to the heavier bullets.

I know of some seasoned casters that shoot the 180RCBS (final weight near 195gr) for hunting, and have very good success.

too bad the nose is so fat, and you have to do extra steps to make it work.
Sounds like that bullet would be a good fit for a 303Brit with a Spec Bore.

Where are you located?

[otter5555]

my handi 3030 LOVES the lee 180 sized .308 in front of 16.5 gr 4895


zero lead
dead on accurate
busts 6x6 plates @ 300 to the point of being boring


moving out to 500 this weekend