Author Topic: 1912 Model 1897 Riot Pump Value Please?  (Read 1199 times)

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Offline slayer

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1912 Model 1897 Riot Pump Value Please?
« on: April 03, 2013, 07:29:41 AM »
Hello, I have a Model 1897 riot shotgun . I would say it is about 90-95%. Only bluing wear is on the slide from fun pumping. Still has original greese in the barrel and parts. 1 little scratch on each side of the stock. 20 inch cyl bore barrel. Solid frame-not takedown. 12 gauge. Plain walnut stock and no special company names on it like police names or anything. No box or papers. It looks to never have been fired. Any idea of year and value? I may be able to get pics later. I am curious to as what is is worth. From the little I could gather looks to be north of $1,000 but not quite sure. Thanks.

 Jack   

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: 1912 Model 1897 Riot Pump Value Please?
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2013, 06:10:24 PM »
There are a lot of fakes out there and cut downs.  Riot models made until the 60's
Does your barrel band have a sling hole in it?
Do you have the 1 1/4" sling swivels?  A guy offered me more then I paid for my  1914 1897 Riot model for just the early removable swivels.
According to the Blue book from a few years ago, 31st edition.  Your Riot model in that condition is worth 750 to 1,000 for a commercial model 

Offline spruce

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Re: 1912 Model 1897 Riot Pump Value Please?
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2013, 05:09:50 AM »
Like mcwoodduck said there are a lot of fake "original" riot guns floating around.  As the value of the originals have increased it's become very profitable to build fakes, and some of them are very well done.
 
Not saying the one you found is a fake, but one in the condition you describe could very well be a "too good to be true" situation!
 
If you buy it for what it's worth as a shooter you can't lose.  But before I'd pay collector price I'd have it examined by someone who is really knowledgeable about these old riot guns.

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: 1912 Model 1897 Riot Pump Value Please?
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2013, 05:51:38 AM »
I did not mean to say Fakes .  Most of the fakes are the Trench models as that is where more money was  and fake makes it sound like something shady was going on. 
What I should have said was cut downs.  We have had SASS for about 25 years now.  W have had movies like the Profesionals with Lee Marvin and the Wild bunch that both used the 1897 Riot models.  Many people bought 97's and simply cut them down to make them look like the movie guns, or took great grandpas old gun and made it a house gun.  As I said the Real riot models will have a sling stud in the stock and a sling stud in the barrel band.  Not having the sling studs, I will most likely say it is a cut down.  Nothing wrong with that.  In the late 80's when I was in Western PA where was a gun store in town that farm kids lined up trying to trade or sell a 97 for a Rem 870.  (if I had only known and had some $ back them) the shop had a rack full of every grade and model ever to leave Winchester over the years and they were not taking in any more.  I am sure many of those are now cut downs to make Cow Boy action or wild bunch guns.  Not a bad thing.  The national combat shotgun championship was won for a number of years by a guy shooting a cut down 97.  They are fast, great guns.
I think at some point it will be hard to find a 30" barrel 1897 
Now you could have an original.  many were sold to police departments and private citizens.  Police departments could have had it sitting in a rack in the office for years and years and was surplused out as other models were adopted by the department.
Mine has shot quail, wodcock and deer as well as sporting clays and skeet. 
Oh one way other way to tell if it is a cut down is to pattern it.  If it shoots high it was probably a 30" barrel cut down.  I can not explain it with out drawing it on paper as to why but the cut downs shoot high and will have an over sized front bead to compinsate.
Either way take it our and shoot it.     

Offline pastorp

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Re: 1912 Model 1897 Riot Pump Value Please?
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2013, 06:26:20 PM »
All good info duck, to add a little more in WW11 many 97s were turned in and cut down by our government for military use. There was a shortage of new riot guns so existing 97s were shortened. Also prison guns were made for the same reason. All this was long before cowboy action shooting began.

A sure give away is the barrels many time will be marked full or mod but be short. Military often 20" and police & prison guns often 22", as my example is.

Are these orgional? Well some saw action in wars. Difficult to sort out.  ;)

Regards,
Byron

Christian by choice, American by the grace of God.

NRA LIFE

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: 1912 Model 1897 Riot Pump Value Please?
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2013, 02:59:01 PM »
All good info duck, to add a little more in WW11 many 97s were turned in and cut down by our government for military use. There was a shortage of new riot guns so existing 97s were shortened. Also prison guns were made for the same reason. All this was long before cowboy action shooting began.

A sure give away is the barrels many time will be marked full or mod but be short. Military often 20" and police & prison guns often 22", as my example is.

Are these orgional? Well some saw action in wars. Difficult to sort out.  ;)

Regards,
From what I understand Riot models were 20" and trench models were 22".  And yes the comercial made Riots will have Cyl on the barrel. 

Offline slayer

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Re: 1912 Model 1897 Riot Pump Value Please?
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2013, 05:03:29 PM »
Thanks fellas. I had it checked and it was made in May 1912. It is an original Riot model.It has CYL marked right on the barrel.  Thanks again.