Author Topic: MD now requires fingerprints to buy handguns.  (Read 1146 times)

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Offline powderman

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MD now requires fingerprints to buy handguns.
« on: April 04, 2013, 03:34:32 AM »
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/04/04/maryland-house-passes-gun-bill-with-fingerprint-requirement/
 
Maryland House passes gun bill with fingerprint requirement 
Published April 04, 2013
Associated Press   Maryland's House of Delegates approved a major gun control measure Wednesday to ban assault weapons, require people who buy handguns to provide their fingerprints and limit gun magazines to 10 bullets.
The House voted 78-61 for the bill, one of Democratic Gov. Martin O'Malley's priorities for the legislative session scheduled to end at midnight Monday. All 78 votes in support of the bill came from Democrats, while 18 Democrats joined all 43 Republicans in the chamber to vote against it.
 
While there are differences between the House and Senate that will need to be reconciled before the Legislature could send the measure to O'Malley for his signature, the main parts supported by gun control advocates remained intact. They included the fingerprint requirement, which opponents repeatedly tried to take out of the measure. Lawmakers in the Senate and the House, both with strong Democratic majorities, rejected amendments that would have stripped the provision.
 
"As states that have this show, when handgun purchasers have to get a fingerprint license through the state police, they are much less likely to buy guns for criminals. These straw purchases are one of the main ways criminals get guns," said Vincent DeMarco, president of Marylanders to Prevent Gun Violence.
Only five other states have a similar law: Connecticut, Hawaii, Massachusetts, New York and New Jersey, DeMarco said. Connecticut was the last state to pass such a law, he added, doing so in the mid-1990s.
 
The Maryland measure also included an assault weapons ban for 45 guns, although people who own them or order them before the law takes effect in October would be allowed to keep them.
Supporters say the measure will put Maryland's already strong gun-control laws among the nation's strongest. Critics described the bill as a devastating blow to Second Amendment rights. They said the measure wrongly focuses on guns, rather than people who use them to commit crimes.
 
"We never blame cars for killing people when they're driven by drunk drivers or out-of-control pop stars," said Delegate Justin Ready, R-Carroll. "Vehicles kill more people in this country than anything else, but no reasonable person would ever suggest that we should ban vehicles based on how they look, even when there are some that maybe have a higher propensity to say, flip over."
 
The bill also strained relations with Berretta USA Corp. The company has a factory in Accokeek that makes some products Maryland residents would not be allowed to legally own. The 500-year-old company would still be able to sell the products out of state. Other states have urged the company to relocate.
The measure sought to address people with mental illness who try to get guns. Under the House bill, people who have been involuntarily committed to a mental health facility would not be able to possess a firearm.
 
The debate often pitted rural lawmakers against legislators from urban and suburban areas.
Delegate Talmadge Branch, D-Baltimore, told lawmakers how Baltimore legislators regularly attend funerals of people who are gunned down. He described a calendar that sometimes included two funerals a week or two a month.
 
"We don't have a need for an assault rifle in the city of Baltimore," Branch said. "We don't have that kind of need, and we don't need guns on the street that are unlicensed, and we don't need guns on the street that are actually killing people."
But Delegate Michael McDermott, R-Worcester, noted that Baltimore experienced many more homicides a year when the federal ban on assault weapons was in effect from 1994 to 2004 than it does now.
 
"The problem in Baltimore city is not assault weapons. It's not assault pistols. It's not assault rifles. It's assault of people," McDermott said.
There are a number of differences the House and Senate will need to work out. For example, the House legislation would require someone to report a lost or stolen gun within 72 hours. The House bill would also ban gun possession for anyone sentenced to probation before judgment for a violent crime. It wasn't immediately clear whether the Senate would accept the House changes or whether a team of negotiators from both houses would be named to work through the differences.
 
O'Malley proposed the measure in the aftermath of December's massacre at a Newtown, Conn., school, where a gunman killed 20 children and six adults before committing suicide.
The governor this week included $4.6 million in a supplemental budget to help implement the bill by creating a center for state police to enforce it.
The gun measure also would make $25 million available for schools to invest in security measures such as locks, cameras and buzzer entrance systems.
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Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: MD now requires fingerprints to buy handguns.
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2013, 05:01:47 AM »
The problem I see is if the gun is purchased legally then it is purchased legally and no matter what hoops they put in front of the legal purchase. 
Adding a finger print is not going to deter the illegal atempts at buying. 
WHy do they not make new laws to punish the use of illegal firarms.  Make sentenances stiffer, make prison more harsh for violent ofenders.  Make a prison just for violent offenders and make it aweful so no one will want to go there or go back.  Instead all the laws are about attacking the honest citizens.
ANd no matter what the laws they put into effect they would not have stopped the Sandy Hook Problems, would not have stopped the VA tech attack, it would not have stopped Gabby Gifords shooting.  It would not have stopped the theater shooting in Colorado. 

Offline jhm

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Re: MD now requires fingerprints to buy handguns.
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2013, 05:43:17 AM »
     Michigan had the finger print thing years ago, you had to have a 3 part card to purchase a handgun back then I dont know if it is still that way but it used to take 6 wks. to get the initial pistol purchasing permit.   JIM

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: MD now requires fingerprints to buy handguns.
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2013, 05:53:39 AM »
Seems like fingerprinting would be an invasion of privacy and could result in a lawsuit.  No one is addressing the two real issues:
 
1) 75% of murders are in 4 cities; New York, Chicago, Washington DC, and LA.  About 80% of those are black on black murders, mostly black teens and young adult males.  The welfare mentaility, single mother, no father figure raised black males are the ones most likely that will turn violent.  They drop out of school, no jobs, so only way they see to make money is steal, sell drugs, pimp, and become gang members thus leading to violence.
 
2) People who have been diagnosed and are being treated for schizophrenia and bi-polar disorders are the ones most likely to commit a mass murder or a tempered murder.  They should not be allowed to own firearms.  However, if they wish  to use them, it must be under supervision of someone and the weapons kept out of their ability to get them while alone.   This would have stopped two of the three recent mass killings, maybe even the third. 
 
Going back to placing the mental patients, who have no responsible family member to assume their responsibility, in mental hospitals might be more cost effective.  Maybe assisted living facilities like semi functional elderly have, but have them gated so they can't leave unless accompanied by responsible family.  At the very least don't let them be able to buy weapons "legaly". 
 
For gun owners, we must keep our guns locked up when not in use to keep thieves from accessing them.  Safes are the best way.  Even then, a guy at my work who lives in the country in a remote area, had his heavy fireproof safe pulled out of his house and stolen.  They ripped out door frames within the house dragging the save out of the house to load up on a truck.  The did catch them thankfully.

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: MD now requires fingerprints to buy handguns.
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2013, 06:13:41 AM »
Seems like fingerprinting would be an invasion of privacy and could result in a lawsuit.  No one is addressing the two real issues:
 
1) 75% of murders are in 4 cities; New York, Chicago, Washington DC, and LA.  About 80% of those are black on black murders, mostly black teens and young adult males.  The welfare mentaility, single mother, no father figure raised black men are the ones that will turn violent.  They drop out of school, not jobs, so only way they can get money is steal, sell drugs, pimp, and become gang members.
 
2) People who have been diagnosed and are being treated for schizophrenia and bi-polar disorders are the ones most likely to commit a mass murder or a tempered murder.  They should not be allowed to own firearms.  However, if they wish  to use them, it must be under supervision of someone and the weapons kept out of their ability to get them while alone.   This would have stopped two of the three recent mass killings, maybe even the third.
The problem is the medical records of the person.  The state can not chaec the medical records of a person applying for a firearm as they are sealed to the state.  Heck they have a queston of the federal form asking if you are a pot user.  They do not take a blood, hair, or urine test to make sure.  Maybe that should be the better answer.  Here is a clinic where you can pay to have your tests done and if you have traces of Pot, or other prohibited drugs in your system then you get denied.  And if you have pot in your system you get to go away for purjury.  Even in a Pot legal state like CA where a prescription is allowed.  What a joke that is.

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: MD now requires fingerprints to buy handguns.
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2013, 06:33:51 AM »
That's why I said no one who had been diagnosed as being mentally ill.  Maybe once someone is diagnosed as being mentally ill, their name should be turned over to the sheriffs department to be put on the no buy FBI computer.  I think this exception can be made for someone who is medically deemed to be a danger to themselves or others without supervision or medication.  Just having better mental health facilities to help these people and help their families would cut down on some of this. 

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: MD now requires fingerprints to buy handguns.
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2013, 07:00:00 AM »
That's why I said no one who had been diagnosed as being mentally ill.  Maybe once someone is diagnosed as being mentally ill, their name should be turned over to the sheriffs department to be put on the no buy FBI computer.  I think this exception can be made for someone who is medically deemed to be a danger to themselves or others without supervision or medication.  Just having better mental health facilities to help these people and help their families would cut down on some of this.
But that is the rub, if htey are diagnosed then you can do nothing, if they are ajudicated to be a danger to themselves or others then their name does go on a no buy list.  Can the doctor be sued if he does tell the police?  Yep will most be willing to do that, probably not, and what if they are not viloent or delusional when meeting with the doctor?  What if they are not seeing a doctor?  Are you going to mandate a psyic test with every gun buy or a national card saying you passed an ownership mental stability test to own a gun?  Are you going to make everyone pass a similar test to buy anything that can be used as a weapon?  Base ball bat, Please go stand in line 4 for your doctor visit.  Yes the Bat is now $230 to include the testing,   Are you willing to add time to the DMV to get a purchase perrmit to buy a car after you pass the evaluation to show you are mentaly able to understand a car?  ANd yet we do nto even have to show an ID to vote in most states that want to or have restriced firearms.

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: MD now requires fingerprints to buy handguns.
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2013, 07:08:05 AM »
All the schizophrenics I have known or heard of "hear voices".  No telling what those "voices" might say or if they will get violent from them.  Therefore I think full blown schizophrenics should be on the no buy list.  Also, all the bi-polars I have know or heard about are prone to extreme emotional behavior, and could get violent.  They too, should be put on the no buy list.  A bi-polar could get very angry and shoot someone or become very depressed and shoot themselves. 

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: MD now requires fingerprints to buy handguns.
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2013, 07:36:47 AM »
I am not arueing with you on the results.  I am asking about the application.  Howare you going to know who is and who is not with out testing everyone that wants a firearm, and then do you carry that to any and all items that can be used as a weapon?  So if you are bipolar do we sell you knives?  Do we sell you a car?  Do we allow you to own anythng that can be used to harm others or your self?  Remember the game clue had much more as murder weapons than the revolver.  I am just trying to think of how you can exclude one group with out hurting all the others from their rights?

Offline Doublebass73

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Re: MD now requires fingerprints to buy handguns.
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2013, 07:58:45 AM »
I am not arueing with you on the results.  I am asking about the application.  Howare you going to know who is and who is not with out testing everyone that wants a firearm, and then do you carry that to any and all items that can be used as a weapon?  So if you are bipolar do we sell you knives?  Do we sell you a car?  Do we allow you to own anythng that can be used to harm others or your self?  Remember the game clue had much more as murder weapons than the revolver.  I am just trying to think of how you can exclude one group with out hurting all the others from their rights?

I agree. It's always better to err on the side of liberty. Having doctors and politicians in charge of one's rights is a very slippery slope to go down. The law of unintended consequences also says that a certain perentage of people who need mental health care would no longer seek it out of fearing of losing their 2nd Amendment rights.
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."

---- William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783

Offline vabeachman

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Re: MD now requires fingerprints to buy handguns.
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2013, 02:24:37 AM »
I got fingerprinted when I bought my first handgun back in the early 90s.  I think it was due to the Brady Bill.  Had to go to the state police office, get fingerprinted, get a permit. 
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Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: MD now requires fingerprints to buy handguns.
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2013, 08:51:09 AM »
I'm not saying everyone has to be tested.  I'm saying once a doctor or psychiatrist determines the mental state of a person and what the are "hearing" or what symptoms they have, then the psychiatrist should have this persons name given to the local authorities and placed on a no gun buy list.  Like the guy in Colorado who was schizophrenic and his doctor was sent a notebook describing what he was going to do in a theater.  She should have immediately notified authorities and had a search warrent on his appartment and had him put on a no gun buy list.  Same with the guy at Virginia Tech.  His psychiatrist knew about this guys violent nature and being schizophrenic.  These people were once placed in mental hospitals until big pharma came up with drugs to control these peoples behavior.  All they have to do is lie about it, and not take the meds.  My wife has a schizophrenic nephew who heard voices while in a college class.  He pulled a knife on the professor and demanded he take off his shoes and give him his socks.  He said the voices told him to do it.  He was arrested and put in a mental hospital for a while, then on meds, he has been released.  Because he has the arrest record, he can't buy a gun thankfully, but when he does not take them, he thinks he is hispanic because he knows spanish, and thinks he was adopted.  Crazy stuff.  His mother married an East German, and she worked at the Pentagon.  They were caught spying and are in prison.  So he is on his own and is 26 now.  Right now he is living in a half way house for drug addicts and mental patients in New York who have no family to take care of them. 

Offline SharonAnne

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Re: MD now requires fingerprints to buy handguns.
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2013, 11:41:35 AM »
I continue to be more and more happy to be living in Arizona.

As far as docs reporting on patients, nope. All it will take is a couple to make the news and then patients will lie about their problems. We stopped putting such folks in mental hospitals since that infringed on their rights. (seems to me I heard that somewhere else) The mental health system is broken. Putting docs in the position of reporting on potential problems will make it worse. Health care professionals currently can report any patient who tells them they intend to commit a crime. Adding anyone who might commit a crime includes all of us. Not looking forward to that.
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Offline Doublebass73

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Re: MD now requires fingerprints to buy handguns.
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2013, 07:38:47 AM »
I agree SharonAnne. The thought of putting a person's Constitutional right at the hands of a doctor is frightening.
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."

---- William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783