Some real world info on the Chevy Volt

[guzzijohn]

There was quite a bit of discussion awhile back on the Volt. Here s is a copied post from the Moto Guzzi forum from a person that owns two of them:



I'll chime in since I actually own one (well, I own two, but that's another story......).   

Overall, great concept and well executed.  The 2013 gets 40 miles on a charge, and with the 9 gallon fuel tank for the generator (there is no "motor" other than the electric motors that drive the wheels), we get over 300 mile range.  The generator is extremely efficient.  One of the biggest "issues" I have with the Prius and cars like it are they can't go very far (< 10 miles) on a charge, and even then can't go over about 50mph on the battery.  The Volt can go well over 100mph on electric  , but the range does suffer if you do that.  And yes, the power will smoke a Prius, and most other cars on the road due to the instant, 100% available torque of the electric motors.  I've had some "racer Rick's" pull up next to the Volt at a light and they have been "humbled" by the experience.  Good fun.  On the two cars I have just over 20k miles, and both cars show over 100mpge.  That's real-world driving on real roads by "normal" (no comments!) people, not test drivers, etc.  I also just had solar panels installed on my roof so my cost to run the cars is zero.

Finances.....ah yes, the Volt's Achilles heel.  Base model is $40k, but dealers will come down a bit from that, at least around here.  Let's call it $36-38k before taxes, etc.  There is still a Federal tax rebate that you can claim as long as the lending company (assuming you buy or lease vs. paying cash outright) doesn't claim it, and most don't (mine didn't).  That's good for $7500 off of your tax bill come tax season (which is now!).  Where I live (California), the state offers a rebate program of $1500.  With those two items, it takes $9000 off and brings the car down to the mid to high 20's (effectively.....you'll still be paying on a $36-38k car, you'll just get $$$ from other sources, maybe to make your payments, etc).  That's much more reasonable.

Batteries.  What Chevy did is really clever IMO.  They guarantee the batteries for 10 years.  During that time, any battery pack that fails or falls below the min charge threshold gets replaced under warranty.  I'd have to go re-read my book (yes, Chevy sent me a book on the history of the car!), but the batteries are actually packs that all plug together, so they can be replaced in small increments if needed.  And what happens to those old batteries?  Eco-types need not worry.  At least here in CA, Chevy has a deal with the local power providers where they sell them the batteries at a deep discount and the power provider uses them as backup for the grid.  It turns out that as long as the pack hasn't somehow failed (rare), it will never go below 20% capacity, and that's just fine with the power company since they just need LOTS of these to keep the grid up for a short time.

Bottom line, I obviously like the darn thing since I have two.  More importantly, my wife LOVES it.  It costs nothing to operate, looks nice, and is well built.  Oh, and to the person who said something about their house wiring not working with it.....you need an electrician to come check your wiring, because something isn't right.  The 2013 Volt charging system has 2 charge modes when used with the supplied portable charger, 8 amps and 12 amps.  Both are well below the 15A limit that is typical for most circuits in a home, so while I did have a dedicated 15A outlet put in my garage for the car (I did it as part of a sub-panel replacement so the additional cost was minimal....about $150), before that was done I could share a circuit just fine while charging the car.

I hope some of this helps.

[cjclemens]

The only thing negative Ive heard about the volt is that the battery packs can catch fire if ruptured in a crash. Has Chevy done anything to remedy that at all? I also heard that there have been a few garage fires from people trying to charge them up with a garage full of crummy wiring.

There's a company called ZERO that makes electric bikes. Way cool concept, I think. The performance specs are pretty impressive, too. I've seriously been thinking about getting one, especially if I could get away with plugging it in at work...

[Larry L]

Yeah, the Volt actually is the real deal. We've seen several go thru the shop on testing. Everybodys first comment is the power. The prime issue I see with one and it's going to be an issue with any of them and that's in a wreck. The body of the car can become charged. Responding fire fighters, etc, can get killed from just touching the car. None of the car makers have installed an impact switch yet that would turn off the battery. The responders may take longer than necessary to extract an injured person and time maybe something the injured person doesn't have. Another issue that any of the hybrids have is the fuel tank. I hope yer keeping a fuel stabilizer in the fuel. The bug spray we buy today for gas has a stable life of only 2 weeks. After that, it can get dicey. If separation happens, the tank must be removed and the tank chemically stripped or replaced. Fires with these batteries are no more common than any battery fire. The lead/acid batteries are also known to cause fires, you just don't hear about those like the hybrids.
I'm not sold the technology yet. If everybody went out and bought one tomorrow, we'd all be walking in 2 days. There's not near enough infrastructure to support much in the of electric cars charged via a wall plug. For those that think it's a free ride, you need to know that carbon producing fuel is being generated to either make the electricity or the parts you have installed that make current. If you really want a free ride, the technology is out there, only you can't have it. You can make your own fuel from your garbage and use it in an opposed single cylinder, 2 piston headless engine, like that of Dr Pauls. The Germans are also working on a similar engine and expect to have it on the roads in Europe by 2020. Here's a vid on Dr Pauls engine....that you can't have and by the way, with after cooling, it is a ZERO emissions engine-you can breath the exhaust.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5xXBb_mrYc


The first 10 or so seconds show how the engine works. After that, the vid gets pretty dull unless you understand thermal dynamics.

[guzzijohn]

Quote from Larry L:
"Another issue that any of the hybrids have is the fuel tank. I hope yer keeping a fuel stabilizer in the fuel. The bug spray we buy today for gas has a stable life of only 2 weeks. After that, it can get dicey. If separation happens, the tank must be removed and the tank chemically stripped or replaced."


In a followup post the guy said that the car somehow monitors your fuel use and if you haven't used the fuel after a period of time the car will start using it so it does not get too old. In my less used vehicles like mowers, my tractor and even my motorcycles in winter, have gone more than two month without Stable and have started and ran fine.
GuzziJohn

[Dee]

I wish you guys would buy a bunch more of'em, so GM could pay the tax dollars back they borrowed.

[ironglow]

  If the Volt is so great...why does the government pay customers thousands of dollars to buy one? 

[guzzijohn]

Quote from Ironglow:
" If the Volt is so great...why does the government pay customers thousands of dollars to buy one?"


Most new technology is expensive at first and usually comes down with advances and volume of sales, thus the government support at this stage. Once it can be more reasonably priced we will reap the benefits. Look at what cell phones and airtime cost the first decade or so they were available.
GuzziJohn

[ironglow]

Quote from Ironglow:
" If the Volt is so great...why does the government pay customers thousands of dollars to buy one?"


Most new technology is expensive at first and usually comes down with advances and volume of sales, thus the government support at this stage. Once it can be more reasonably priced we will reap the benefits. Look at what cell phones and airtime cost the first decade or so they were available.
GuzziJohn

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 
   First, it's OK if GM wants to do venture capitalism with their own funds but government has no reason to mess around in business...
 
  Next; so they use somewhat less gasoline per month, and the supposed aim is "clean air and it runs mostly on electricity.
 
           Just how is that electricity generated?
 
  How well does it work when the weather hovers around 10 degrees F and below...especially since that would require full time heater operation?

[Dee]

As far as I'm concerned the tax payer helped you buy your car, because the concept is a failure. You volt owners are just another group on the government tit.

[Oldshooter]

Most new technology is expensive at first and usually comes down with advances and volume of sales, thus the government support at this stage. Once it can be more reasonably priced we will reap the benefits. Look at what cell phones and airtime cost the first decade or so they were available.
GuzziJohn

I think I'll save this. Maybe we can revisit this conversation in the future. meanwhile I'll just sit here and laugh my ass off.

[vabeachman]

I like the Volt.  Great idea.  But the government shouldn't be involved.  Just more social engineering.

[Dee]

I like the Volt.  Great idea.  But the government shouldn't be involved.  Just more social engineering.

I agree. I ain't against the volt. I just don't like havin ta help pay for'em.

[two-blocked]

"government has no reason to mess around in business..." 
 
That's what our country was founded on. Might want to learn about the Pawtowmack Canal
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patowmack_Canal
 

[mac60]

The volt is piece of junk. I wouldn't be caught dead in one.

[yellowtail3]

Interesting thread. I like the idea of the Volt. For those with a no-too-long commute, it's very cheap to run. Cool.


I'll bet Ironglow's bible collection that most of the snarky complaints against the Volt, arefrom ideology, nuthin' to do with engineering/merits of the design. Ideology... that thing that makes otherwise reasonable people turn off parts of their brain, and perverts their character.

[Brett]

Wish they would come out with a SUV. 

[vabeachman]

Just because it is not "unusual" doesn't make it right.  Ideology is a government concept. The government believes it knows what is best.  I like the volt and what it can mean for us, but the automaker should have done it years age in their own best interest.  I would have thunk that automakers would have had a great interest in producing extremely fuel efficient cars for decades to make their industry more independent.  But due to their poor business management did not take any real action.  I love my Silverado's by the way.  No more social engineering.  Keep government out of business and business out of government.  Where have individual rights and responsibilities gone?

[blind ear]

You can make your own fuel from your garbage and use it in an opposed single cylinder, 2 piston headless engine, like that of Dr Pauls. The Germans are also working on a similar engine and expect to have it on the roads in Europe by 2020. Here's a vid on Dr Pauls engine....that you can't have and by the way, with after cooling, it is a ZERO emissions engine-you can breath the exhaust.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5xXBb_mrYc

-
Interesting, do you know how/if the engine is progressing in the USA? ear

[Larry L]

[size=0px]Interesting, do you know how/if the engine is progressing in the USA?[/size]

It isn't. The engine in the vid, the one that they start and run in the vid is making 900 HP in a suitcase sized block. One person can lift and walk off with it. There is one unit, a 3 cylinder in San Diego that is at one of their landfills that's making diesel fuel from the biogarbage AND  making electricity. The diesel fuel output is fueling most of the garbage fleet from what we hear. Why hasn't this technology been embraced by the Feds? Why has there been no Federal funding to develop this wonder engine? Politics. Ya see, with you being able to make your own fuel at home and saving the planet from the endless garbage we generate, Uncle Sammy and the criminals in DC have no way to tax you on it. So the next time you hear a politician talk about carbon foot print, emissions, gotta get more fuel mileage from our cars, he's a liar. The technology is there, it's a case of you can't have it as it would cost DC far too much in tax dollars that they desperately need considering they're spending it like drunken sailors in a bawdy house.
That's also why you don't see many diesel powered cars here like you do in Europe- tax dollars. If you think the Feds are really interested in saving the planet by getting more fuel mileage from cars and lowering emissions, you're about as crazy as the politicians. When a barrel of crude oil is processed, they get so much gas and so much diesel from every barrel along with other products. If the US had more diesel engines on the road, there would be a gross imbalance of product demand. The price of gas would fall but diesel would go up significantly along with heating oil and jet fuel. The oil companies won't stand for that so the Feds have catered to their needs and made it difficult to certify a diesel engine for use in a car here. It's also extremely expensive to do.But there are diesels coming and soon. Ram, GM and some imports are bringing the diesels to your neighborhood this fall.

[blind ear]

Figured as much. Strange that it hasn't been publicized any more that it has. Have to keep our bassakward system going. Push ethanol and increase pollution and the price of food at the same time plus it kills engines. ear

[ChungDoQuan]

Section 8 of the Constitution says the feds DO have the right to promote "useful arts and sciences" and that they "regulate commerce," so yes, they can offer the rebates to get new technology off the ground, as with the Volt. Besides, I'd doubt that more than $0.01 of you tax bill goes towards the rebate program. New engines , like the Paul engine, always have a rough start--- do a search on the Rosen powertrain, from back in the late 80s- early 90s. Some loopholes should be allowed (research, for instance.)

[Larry L]

Push ethanol and increase pollution and the price of food at the same time

You're failing to see the big picture with ethanol. It's not about emissions or carbon foot footprint as you been told. The manufacture of ethanol into a fuel has a larger carbon foot print than that of fossil fuels. It takes more fuel to make it than it produces. It's about crowd control. Ethanol has a designed life of 2 weeks and then it naturally starts to absorb water which turns into a white gel. It's called hygoscopic. Should the SHTF situation occur, your ability to travel will be limited by the bad fuel that you probably have in storage. Any stoppage of the shipping of gas to the stations by the Gov't means you'll be pumping a lot of water and bad gas out of the stations tanks. Yer not going far on that. So if you live up north say in New York and the SHTF situation occurs, you won't be driving to a gun friendly state like Texas or Florida. You won't be going to a neighbors house too many times and there won't be much in the way of any militias movements either.


Before someone chimes in with they have gas that lasted longer, yeah, I know. It happens depending on the weather and where you live. If you think you need to store gas, find an ethanol free station and load it up with a fuel stabilizer. That will last about 2 years before getting weak. A qt of acetone in a 5 gallon can will bring it back for a short time. Once ethanol goes bad, there's no bringing it back and it usually destroys the tank it's in.

[yellowtail3]

Push ethanol and increase pollution and the price of food at the same time

You're failing to see the big picture with ethanol.

I don't konw that I agree with his full big picture - I've never thought of intent of ethanol, to be crowd control - but Larry otherwise nailed it. I hate that stuff, screws up OB engines. And yeah... it's not 'ecologically sound' taking more energy to create than it yeilds - I always thought it was a payoff to farmers, or something.

[ChungDoQuan]

Commercial hemp would radically change the ethanol footprint.

[Casull]

On trips I think the Volt can average 100mpg...not too bad.

 
 

The 2013 gets 40 miles on a charge, and with the 9 gallon fuel tank for the generator (there is no "motor" other than the electric motors that drive the wheels), we get over 300 mile range.

 
 
 
That looks more like about 33 mpg, plus the cost of electricity for the initial charge.  My old Celica got 35 mpg and would go over 100 mph.

[Old Fart]

Commercial hemp would radically change the ethanol footprint.

I thought that was already going on... 

[ironglow]

Motor trends survey says they average in the 60+ mileage range..  When you figure that in achieving that mileage there is perhaps, a gallon of gas and a buck or two of electricity; that's good mileage but not spectacular.
  http://www.motortrend.com/features/auto_news/1201_chevrolet_volt_by_the_numbers/
 
   
     Read the two links below..  Do you STILL want a vote?
 
     
        http://gmauthority.com/blog/2012/07/homosexual-focused-ad-for-chevy-volt-viewed-11-million-times/
 
      http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2012/07/gms-chevrolet-volt-ads-aim-for-gay-lesbian-buyers/1#.UWLUZCrD-q1
 
    " We're here..we're queer..and we are driving a Volt!"
 
   Of course..some here may still want one..but I doubt many will..
 

[Dee]

A Volkswagen diesel will get 50 plus mpg, and last longer.

[magooch]

Since taxpayers are helping folks to buy those electric cars, it should only be right that they should be able to come over and borrow your electric cars whenever they like.  Or maybe electric car buyers should help fill our gas tanks once a month to pay us back. 


Let's see, if the taxpayers would subsidize my driving at the same rate as electric cars are subsidized, I could drive for free for 10 years in my Toyota Tacoma.

[dakotashooter2]

They may be fine for those of you in the "Bikini Belt" but how will they perform up here where our temp may be in the teens or lower for 4-5 months of the year? Batteries and cold don't exactly get along well up here.  I'm not up to date on all the new battery technology but in my experience when you piecemeal your battery bank all it does is shorten the life of the new battery...........  I'm also curious how warm the interior of an electric car stays at -20 without sacrificing significant range.
 
There are places/ businesses that could successfully utilize electric vehicles. Taxis in big cities would be one.  In many cases they spend more time burning fuel at idle than moving, speeds are generally not high enough to significantly diminish battery output, no or limited pollution and noise.