Some real world info on the Chevy Volt

[dukkillr]

Since taxpayers are helping folks to buy those electric cars, it should only be right that they should be able to come over and borrow your electric cars whenever they like.  Or maybe electric car buyers should help fill our gas tanks once a month to pay us back. 


Let's see, if the taxpayers would subsidize my driving at the same rate as electric cars are subsidized, I could drive for free for 10 years in my Toyota Tacoma.

I agree.  In fact, I should get to take my cut out of the silo at each farm across this country.  I should get a chance to stay in any house with flood insurance, and there are some nice ones.  I should get a piece of any earnings based on a subsidized student loan.  A free meal at any restaurant brought in with a tax abatement.  I should get to hunt on any CRP or WRP in the country, public or private.  And don't even get me started on a gated BLM...  I think I could get free treatment at any hospital in the country...
 
I don't like government subsidies, but I think people sometimes pick and choose the ones they are offended by...  Actually, can someone hit me with a breakdown of Volt subsidies vs farm subsidies in terms of real dollars?  How about flood insurance? 

[ironglow]

Since taxpayers are helping folks to buy those electric cars, it should only be right that they should be able to come over and borrow your electric cars whenever they like.  Or maybe electric car buyers should help fill our gas tanks once a month to pay us back. 


Let's see, if the taxpayers would subsidize my driving at the same rate as electric cars are subsidized, I could drive for free for 10 years in my Toyota Tacoma.

I agree.  In fact, I should get to take my cut out of the silo at each farm across this country.  I should get a chance to stay in any house with flood insurance, and there are some nice ones.  I should get a piece of any earnings based on a subsidized student loan.  A free meal at any restaurant brought in with a tax abatement.  I should get to hunt on any CRP or WRP in the country, public or private.  And don't even get me started on a gated BLM...  I think I could get free treatment at any hospital in the country...
 
I don't like government subsidies, but I think people sometimes pick and choose the ones they are offended by...  Actually, can someone hit me with a breakdown of Volt subsidies vs farm subsidies in terms of real dollars?  How about flood insurance?

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 Go for it; I'm with you...
   Jeepers; the govt could at least consolidate for efficiency!  The Volt of Fiskars drivers could be shuttling folks around to pick up their welfare & farm subsidy checks..
  OK..forget the Fiskars..they only built a few cars, and the news today  says Fiskars is going belly-up.  Still, Leonardo DeCaprio or Justin Beaver could be shuttling welfare queens there in LA..
 
  correction: I guess that name is BEIBER.. not.. BEAVER..

[vabeachman]

Chungdoquan, Your selective editing of the Constitution is misleading.  The word bites out of the complete sentences are deceptive.  Why don't you post the complete sentences?  Since I know you won't I will
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;  not to initiate as you think. to settle disputes.
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries; Copyright and patent protecti
I do not read into any of these statements the right of the Government to any subsidize any industry.

[DDZ]

Chungdoquan, Your selective editing of the Constitution is misleading.  The word bites out of the complete sentences are deceptive.  Why don't you post the complete sentences?  Since I know you won't I will
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;  not to initiate as you think. to settle disputes.
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries; Copyright and patent protecti
I do not read into any of these statements the right of the Government to any subsidize any industry.

That is what liberals do. They twist the meaning of the Constitution to suit their twisted world views. Its how they justify supporting a socialist government, that pays people to buy a car that wouldn't sell otherwise. Heck nobody wants to buy it even with government paying people to buy it. Who would want a car you have to leave plugged if for 10 hours so you could drive 30 miles? 20K would buy a lot of gas. Especially if you had a 40MPG car that costs half as much as the volt.   

[mannyrock]

 
  All of you guys who are upset because the government helps subsidize the cost of the Volt make me laugh out loud.  If you bought your house on credit with a note, the Government helped subsidize your purchase by letting you tax deduct the interest for the entire life of the note, effectively refunding to you 28% or more of the interest you paid.  Are you going to give that money back?  I'll bet not.  It really ticks me off because I paid cash for my current house.  The government didn't give me a handout to buy it.
 
   And if your kids or grandkids are buying their first house, they get a double government hand-out, because first time home buyers get a special tax credit, on top of being able to tax deduct the interest.  Are you going to tell them not to take the credit, or to mail the tax refund back.  I'll bet not.
 
    So, just another group of people living off the government tit.
 
Mannyrock
 
   

[ironglow]

  All of you guys who are upset because the government helps subsidize the cost of the Volt make me laugh out loud.  If you bought your house on credit with a note, the Government helped subsidize your purchase by letting you tax deduct the interest for the entire life of the note, effectively refunding to you 28% or more of the interest you paid.  Are you going to give that money back?  I'll bet not.  It really ticks me off because I paid cash for my current house.  The government didn't give me a handout to buy it.
 
   And if your kids or grandkids are buying their first house, they get a double government hand-out, because first time home buyers get a special tax credit, on top of being able to tax deduct the interest.  Are you going to tell them not to take the credit, or to mail the tax refund back.  I'll bet not.
 
    So, just another group of people living off the government tit.
 
Mannyrock
 
   

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  A slight difference there..  if we are  to equate the two, then the home would not only get a tax break, but the government would have covered about 20% of the SELLING PRICE of the home!
  As far as the "tax break", that doesn't mean the government is GIVING anybody anything.. they are just holding back from TAKING quite so much away!

[vabeachman]

Government subsidies of housing have only serve to drive up the price of housing.  Same for education and heath care.  When I bought my first home I made sure that I could easily meet the financial obligations of homeownership without having to count on the tax write-off.  At one time even credit cards were subsidized. I truly believe if the Government was not involved in housing, housing prices would drop dramatically and more people would be able to buy a house.

[DDZ]

Sheeezzz, mannyrock,,,that means there must be millions of homes all over the USA that will give me a nights lodging when I show up...
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Now I read several Volt owners reviews on MSN-autos ...looks like some owners get upwards of 158mpg with about 5.3 hours home charging times normally.
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.TM7

Wonder where the owners pulled those numbers from. I guess one tends to stretch numbers when it comes to justifying buying a volt. Emotions usually do trump math. Everything I have read says you need 10 hours charging time for 38 miles driven. Cut that 38 miles in half if you want to drive in cold weather, along with increased charging times. Compared to say the Chevy Cruise it could take up to 27 years to pay off versus the cruise. Thats assuming its driven regularly further then the battery range allows. this could be cut to 8 years if gas was $5 a gallon and you only drove on battery power.
At full retail without tax payers helping it could take you 45 years to get the payback. What a deal, huh? This info is from a Times article that states, you don't value your money if you buy a volt. It really doesn't make any economic sense to buy one of these. To each his own though. I guess some people like to think they are saving the planet. Or paying back the UAW union for all their support of the Marxist.
Government doesn't have any business giving tax credits for cars or anything else. The volt proves that government will spend any amount to sell something that people don't want. According to Mackinac Center study of government subsidies throughout the manufacturing and distribution chain, the actual cost of the volt is 300K, with a quarter million of taxpayer subsidies going into every car. Knowing how our government works, I'm inclined to believe this. 
 Anyway my house didn't cost you or anyone else a dime. I built it myself with money I saved, that I labored for. Some of you guys crack me up. You try to justify government subsidising something you want, by saying "look its legit, because they subsidise other products.   
 
   

[blind ear]

Government subsidies of housing have only serve to drive up the price of housing.  Same for education and heath care.  When I bought my first home I made sure that I could easily meet the financial obligations of homeownership without having to count on the tax write-off.  At one time even credit cards were subsidized. I truly believe if the Government was not involved in housing, housing prices would drop dramatically and more people would be able to buy a house.

-
Known as the first crash of the 21st century. A return to real values. The property is worth what profit it can generate in Ten Years. Works for everything from farm land to skyscrapers. ear

[magooch]

I'm still waiting to hear about a subsidy that I can collect on.  Oh wait, I did go to college on the G.I. Bill.  But I did sort of pay for that by serving my country.

[ironglow]

Responsibility, responsibility...
   I never bought a home without placing at least 50% down, and in recent years, I have only paid cash.. but then, I have never "over bought"..preferring to live in a non-lavish lifestyle.
 
  There is an old axiom, which I like, it is instrumental in getting our country into the financial condition it is in today.  It goes like this;
 
  "  Too many folks spend money they don't have, to buy things they don't need; to impress people they don't care for anyway !"
 
 
 

[Oldshooter]

Here is some real world info on the volt!  Dont want one, Dont like government funding it,or telling us we need it, let it sell itself (not sure that is going that well)
 
I can't pull a tractor on a trailer with it. or haul fence post. And for the price I can get a nice pickup.  Speed limit in places in this state are 80+ cause you need to cover some ground to get somewhere. golf carts are for going there not getting there.
 
I think its a great I idea, all you guys go get one and maybe I can afford some fuel for my truck and tractor!

[Dixie Dude]

For those who are preping.  Once could switch a vehicle to run propane.  Buy some large, 500 or 1000 gallon tanks which are available to the public and store propane.  It will store indefinately as long as there are no leaks on the tanks.  Another thing is to switch to diesel.  Low sulfer diesel doesn't last but about 2 years, but you could buy off road diesel "for farm equipment" and it will keep about 10 years.  In a pinch or in a SHTF situation you can use it in your diesel vehicle.  It has a red color and is illegal if they check you.  But in a SHTF situation, I don't think anyone will be checking diesel fuel color.  They also make Staybil for ethynol fuel.  Don't know how much longer it will keep. 

[Casull]

  All of you guys who are upset because the government helps subsidize the cost of the Volt make me laugh out loud.  If you bought your house on credit with a note, the Government helped subsidize your purchase by letting you tax deduct the interest for the entire life of the note, effectively refunding to you 28% or more of the interest you paid.  Are you going to give that money back?  I'll bet not.  It really ticks me off because I paid cash for my current house.  The government didn't give me a handout to buy it.

 
 
 
 
Don't get too high and mighty there, Mannyrock.  The above is what the realtors will tell you.  Truth is though, that it only benefits the homeowner to the extent that their itemized deductions exceed their standard deduction.  In other words, a married couple has a standard deduction of about $9,600 (if memory serves).  So, unless their itemized deductions exceed $9,600 they receive no benefit for the interest paid.  So, if they pay $10,000 worth of interest a year and have no other deductions, then they will benefit to the tune of 28% (or whatever their tax rate is) x $400 or just over a hundred bucks.  Sure makes that $10,000 worth of interest look tempting, doesn't it?   

[Larry L]

While I hate to go against the flow, the Volt has been a good thing. I hate the GM bailout as much as anybody but in the case of the Volt, it was money well spent, at least the technology we got from the Volts battery. This is not just some battery that's made up to fit the car. This is the next generation battery that allows longer drive times without recharging. As we progress thru the technologies we will eventually figure out one that can be recharged quickly and hold it's charge longer yielding much farther distances and less energy consumption. This technology was made by Panasonic who is the big player in automotive batteries for hybrids and electric cars. The same technology developed for the Volt is in the all electric Prius and all electric Focus. There is no gas engine in these 2 cars, just a recharging cord. Yes, there is still the carbon footprint from the electrical plant and no we don't have the infrastructure to support all electric cars but it's coming. You'll start seeing more and more solar panels installed by power companies and you'll start even more wind farms. In Texas, we've been putting up wind generators at the rate of 2 per day for several years now. There is a backlog of wind generators sitting, waiting to be installed. Just the ranch my brother lives on has over 350 installed and waiting for 700 more. So the Volt is a good thing. For folks that only do short trips, this is your car along with the all electrics. Want luxury too? There's the Tesla with a 200+ mile range at hiway speeds. Want fast? Ferrari now has an all electric car that goes from zero to 120mph in less than 3 seconds- I just know thats gotta hurt. Don't have to like the GM bailout, I don't. But sometimes DC screws up and things actually move forward. It's just so uncommon we are surprised when it happens.

[ironglow]

  Larry says;
      " While I hate to go against the flow, the Volt has been a good thing. I hate the GM bailout as much as anybody but in the case of the Volt, it was money well spent, at least the technology we got from the Volts battery."
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   Whoops Larry;
   Hold on..  China now has the battery company, technology and all.  Taxpayer paid many $$$$$ into it, and the Chinese bought it for peanuts !   That's why government has no decent reason to muck around in private enterprise!
 http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/29/us-a123-wanxiang-approval-idUSBRE90S0JN20130129
 
   As for me, I am so convinced that govt should never be involved in private enterprise and using taxpayer's money to diddle around in stock market speculation, that I have decided I'll never by a product made by Government motors..
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  TM asks, rhetorically;
   " So, I assume you don't think there should be 501(c) tax breaks for churches, too.....??..."
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  You assume correctly TM..here's where the Lefties and I agree..seperation..church doesn't tax state; state doesn't tax church.
.
 

[Larry L]

Uh, no. A123 does not make the battery for the Volt, Panasonic does. Panasonic is the owner of the technology for the Volt. The Focus and Prius use the exact same battery from Panasonic. A123 is used by Tesla. Fiskar is no longer around as they ran outa money. Fiskar was kinda doomed anyway when they couldn't get batteries from A123. Supposedly the next generation all electric car from GM, the Spark, which is a roller skate on wheels, WAS supposed to get batteries from A123 but that contract went into breach when they couldn't supply even test versions. I'll ask around the center tomorrow and see if anybody has a clue where those batteries are coming from.

[ironglow]

I stand corrected; I knew they made batteries for some Govt Motors cars, but wasn't sure of which ones.
   In any case, we taxpayers without being asked, invested heavily in A123..don't know if we ever got our money back.
  Of course, again without being asked, we invested in Fiskars too...
   Not to say govt should never invest in development, but it should only be so when there is no way private industry would do it.
  Without govt interference, I believe private industry would develop a useful battery, matching the needed criteria.  They may not do it according to Obama's impatient plans...but we would not lose any taxpayer's money in the deal.

[Bob Riebe]

While I hate to go against the flow, the Volt has been a good thing. I hate the GM bailout as much as anybody but in the case of the Volt, it was money well spent, at least the technology we got from the Volts battery. This is not just some battery that's made up to fit the car. This is the next generation battery that allows longer drive times without recharging. As we progress thru the technologies we will eventually figure out one that can be recharged quickly and hold it's charge longer yielding much farther distances and less energy consumption. This technology was made by Panasonic who is the big player in automotive batteries for hybrids and electric cars. The same technology developed for the Volt is in the all electric Prius and all electric Focus. There is no gas engine in these 2 cars, just a recharging cord. Yes, there is still the carbon footprint from the electrical plant and no we don't have the infrastructure to support all electric cars but it's coming. You'll start seeing more and more solar panels installed by power companies and you'll start even more wind farms. In Texas, we've been putting up wind generators at the rate of 2 per day for several years now. There is a backlog of wind generators sitting, waiting to be installed. Just the ranch my brother lives on has over 350 installed and waiting for 700 more. So the Volt is a good thing. For folks that only do short trips, this is your car along with the all electrics. Want luxury too? There's the Tesla with a 200+ mile range at hiway speeds. Want fast? Ferrari now has an all electric car that goes from zero to 120mph in less than 3 seconds- I just know thats gotta hurt. Don't have to like the GM bailout, I don't. But sometimes DC screws up and things actually move forward. It's just so uncommon we are surprised when it happens.

Hmm, how many years, decades, does any supposed mpg advantage of the Volt take to make up for its increased price over a basic four-banger fwd crap wagon?

[DDZ]

Looking at the volt idea with common sense, if it was such a good thing for us the government wouldn't have had to dump a bunch of tax payer money into it, and Govt. motors would be selling a heck of a bunch more of them. I look for natural gas and diesel to take over before batteries do, that is if government doesn't make absurd clean air standards on natural gas and diesel cars, to push their battery cars on people that don't want them.
If you like the volt go buy one. I and many others don't think it makes much economic sense to buy one. The sales of the volt support that. How many would be sold without tax payer money being dumped into it?
It isn't like the battery powered vehicles technology has just came on the scene.  The first small scale electric car was made in 1832. In 1899 a land speed record was set with an electric car at 68mph. So really how far has battery technology come in the last 180 years?