Author Topic: 445 SM Performace and shooting 44 mag from a 445SM chamber? (Read 1340 times)

8uck5nort · « **on:** April 06, 2013, 01:57:38 AM »

I have the good fortune of stumbling across one of my "I regret I sold it rifles" and bought it back Friday. It is a 44 mag carbine and I wanted to ream the chamber to 445 SM. I plan on using Hornady 265 grain FTX and FP or any Sierra/Speer 430 cal bullets I can get my hands on rated for the increased velocities. Does the 445 SM come close to the 444 Marlin in the under 200 yrd ranges? Assume deer size game. Midway has 445 SM brass in stock at the moment, or could I use 444 Marlin brass cut down and run through my Lee 44 mag dies?

Another concern is, and I am assuming, I can still reliably shoot 44 mag and 44 spcl from the extended chamber no differently than a chamber tat as been reamed to 357 max can still fire 357 mag/38 spcl?

All feedback is appreciated.

Thanks

YRUpunting? · « **Reply #1 on:** April 06, 2013, 02:39:50 AM »

Make sure you have a SB2 frame. All the factory 44 Mags I've seen are on SB1's and they're not strong enough for the 445 SM.

bikerbeans · « **Reply #2 on:** April 06, 2013, 02:41:58 AM »

Bucksnort,'

THe case head on a 444M brass is around .470" so it would be a no go in a 445 or 44M chamber.

444M case capacity is 69 grains of water and 445SM is 47 grains so not really comparable with the same bullet and pressure.

I have been contemplating reaming my 44 to 445sm as previous discussions indicate the GBO rental reamer will improve the throat in a Handi and accuracy of the 44M may be improved.
Another option would be to ream your 44M to 44 winchester which is based on a cutdown 444M case. 4D has the 44W reamer.
Or you could rent the GBO 444M reamer and then can download to 444M to 445SM performance, but if you are an Indiana deer hunter the 444M isn't going to work for you.

Good luck and hope to see you & your better half at the shoot on April 20th.

BB

quickdtoo · « **Reply #3 on:** April 06, 2013, 05:00:06 AM »

From all reports, the 445 shoots the shorter rounds better than before for the same reason the 357 Maxi does, the improved leade.

I've only shot one H110 load in my 445, but it's accurate at 100yds, haven't shot 44mag in it since tho. Digger was shooting the 265gr FP at ~~just shy of 2000fps~~ 2160fps in his 22" 445.

Tim

Jason F · « **Reply #4 on:** April 06, 2013, 07:07:35 AM »

You guys keep talking about reaming the 44mag to 445 my talo barrel is hiding in the back of safe

gcrank1 · « **Reply #5 on:** April 06, 2013, 09:28:57 AM »

I know the 'notion' of shooting the shorter rounds seems attractive, and probably gets tried a bit once any chamber has been extra-sized, but I suspect that many (not all I accept) just load the longer brass to whatever level they want and shoot that. I prefer to fill the chamber intended for brass with as much brass as it will hold, for a number of reasons, not the least of which is I just like handling longer cases, especially in public, with a smug expression of superiority

.
Freud would have something to say about that.........but, gentlemen that you are, I know Im safe here

.

8uck5nort · « **Reply #6 on:** April 07, 2013, 01:32:33 AM »

It will accompany me to the Ohio Shoot next weekend, but as a 44 mag for now.
I mean the weekend of the 20th.... Now where are my, ummmmm, car keys....

bikerbeans · « **Reply #7 on:** April 07, 2013, 03:07:13 AM »

Quote from: 8uck5nort on April 07, 2013, 01:32:33 AM

. I am in line for the 445 reamer.

I am behind you on the list for the reamer.

BB

Doc Fillem · « **Reply #8 on:** April 07, 2013, 11:35:08 AM »

I reamed my 44 Mag to Supermag, I got the brass from Midway. It still shoots 44 Mags just fine when plinking. I haven't shot anything with the Supermag yet but it does kick a LOT more!

I loaded the Supermags with regular 44 Magnum dies and it worked fine.

8uck5nort · « **Reply #9 on:** April 10, 2013, 06:41:09 AM »

Powder choices for the 445 SM? I think I am going to start with H110 and for some comparison try to track down some LilGun. Is a slower burning powder doable in a straight wall cartridge?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #10 on:** April 10, 2013, 07:05:14 AM »

Since RL7 works so good in the 45 Colt rifle, I would think it might be a good choice in the 445SM as well.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,243234.msg1099397056.html#msg1099397056

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,236224.msg1099334141.html#msg1099334141

petemi · « **Reply #11 on:** April 10, 2013, 07:11:37 AM »

I agree with Tim. I haven't done it yet, but when you start looking at case volumes such as the .445 and a 22 inch barrel, rifle powders come to mind. Tim and I have both had wonderful performance with RL7 in the .38-55. I'm gonna try it.

Pete

bikerbeans · « **Reply #12 on:** April 10, 2013, 11:49:21 AM »

Bucksnort,

AA1680 & the 4198 twins might be good options as well. Slower than H110 & faster than RL7. I3031 & Benchmark are next to RL7 on the burn chart and might be good candidates if you can find data. Once I get my 44M reamed to 445SM I will work with Benchmark & RL7 (no aa1680 or 4198 to play with

) and see how they go.

BB

petemi · « **Reply #13 on:** April 10, 2013, 01:16:00 PM »

I'll be eager you see what results you have Tom. So much of the available data around for the .445 is for handguns. It's difficult to find usable rifle data. Keep us posted.

Pete

8uck5nort · « **Reply #14 on:** April 11, 2013, 08:22:38 AM »

I followed the links Tim put up. There was mention of the 44 Rhino at a case length of 1.75 in. made from 30-40 Krag brass. What would be the consensus on that be. Has anyone ever reamed a 44 mag chamber to that particulare cartridge. It would seem to me that bullet selection would be fairly narrow for the non-caster. I am not sure a 44 mag pistol bullet will do well at the higher velocities. I wonder if I am getting into the point of diminishing return?

bikerbeans · « **Reply #15 on:** April 11, 2013, 09:30:59 AM »

Quote from: 8uck5nort on April 11, 2013, 08:22:38 AM

I followed the links Tim put up. There was mention of the 44 Rhino at a case length of 1.75 in. made from 30-40 Krag brass. What would be the consensus on that be. Has anyone ever reamed a 44 mag chamber to that particulare cartridge. It would seem to me that bullet selection would be fairly narrow for the non-caster. I am not sure a 44 mag pistol bullet will do well at the higher velocities. I wonder if I am getting into the point of diminishing return?

Might as well by pass the 44 Rhino and go straight to the 44 Bodeen.

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,254137.msg1099574384.html#msg1099574384

8uck5nort · « **Reply #16 on:** April 11, 2013, 10:15:29 AM »

Read up on the 44 Bodeen link. Holy Cow that looks painful at both ends. Unfortunately that would put this out of DNR case length restrictions for deer in Indiana. 1.8 inches is the max length. That is the primary motivation since all my rifle have to draw blood and put meat on the table at some point in order to find a place in the gun cabinet. The other reason I would like to stay in the 44 mag chamber family is I can go back to plinking the small stuff for when my shoulder is all bruised up after taking my beating with the Supermag or Rhino. I am just wondering if I am doing alot for a little. Does the extra .15 inches get me any more in performace to justify the extra effort. I am not really lazy, but like anything else is it really worth it? I will have trim the 30-40 krag at the shoulder to achieve the 1.75 case length, but I beleieve that is all that is required and I should still be able to use my lee 44 mag dies to size if I decide to go that route. I am getting some 30-40 krag brass to experiment with so I guess we will see.

bikerbeans · « **Reply #17 on:** April 11, 2013, 10:54:12 AM »

where would you get the 44 Rhino chamber reamer?

8uck5nort · « **Reply #18 on:** April 11, 2013, 10:59:08 AM »

Quote from: bikerbeans on April 11, 2013, 10:54:12 AM

where would you get the 44 Rhino chamber reamer?

Ummm, I am assuming if I choose, I could just use the 445 supermag reamer to go a little deeper than the 1.6" called for. Just a few more turns and poof you have a 1.75 inch chmaber kind like with you can do the 357 max reamer. That was the plan anyway. Am I wrong in that assumption?

bikerbeans · « **Reply #19 on:** April 11, 2013, 11:09:48 AM »

You could but your rim cut would be .15" too deep.

BB

gcrank1 · « **Reply #20 on:** April 11, 2013, 11:43:57 AM »

Brass case walls get thicker as they go down so when you shorten up the 30-40K to your length you likely will find you need to ream or neck turn the brass to get a similar neck wall thickness for the chamber cut at neck. That is, unless the chamber reamer has been ground to give the right size and clearance for just the now shortened brass. All is not as simple as one may think.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #21 on:** April 11, 2013, 12:24:15 PM »

Or maybe use the GBO 444 reamer to cut the chamber deeper, but not too much deeper cuz the 444 has a bigger case head.

Tim

8uck5nort · « **Reply #22 on:** April 11, 2013, 01:51:44 PM »

Well when I got home from work I have 100 new brass cases in 445SM sitting on the kitchen counter. They mic'ed at 1.399 inches. So that throws the 445 reamer a little deeper idea right out the window. For some reason I thought the case length was 1.600 inches, but it's not.

bikerbeans · « **Reply #23 on:** April 11, 2013, 03:35:34 PM »

Something isn't right, max case length of a 445SM is supposed to be 1.610"

When I go to my reload room in the morning I will measure the 50 new pieces of 445SM brass I have.

8uck5nort · « **Reply #24 on:** April 11, 2013, 04:24:12 PM »

That is what I thought. So I went down and pulled the battery, replaced it with a fresh one, and resampled a couple. 1.603 on both of the cases. I even got out my 44mag dies and ran them through, and checked again. I guess that is what I get for relying on a battery operated digital mic. Thanks for the head check.

bikerbeans · « **Reply #25 on:** April 12, 2013, 01:06:50 AM »

Quote from: 8uck5nort on April 11, 2013, 04:24:12 PM

That is what I thought. So I went down and pulled the battery, replaced it with a fresh one, and resampled a couple. 1.603 on both of the cases. I even got out my 44mag dies and ran them through, and checked again. I guess that is what I get for relying on a battery operated digital mic. Thanks for the head check.

been there done that.

BB

Ditchdigger · « **Reply #26 on:** April 14, 2013, 04:38:12 AM »

Quick, I was getting 1975 from the 300 grain XTP's and 2160 from the 265's.The 240's were at 2260 fps.The 180's were close to 2500 fps..The 265's at 140 yards penetrated 37" in a hog shot from behind,breaking the left hind leg,the right front leg and stoping under the skin near the head. I was using a near max load of 296 with this bullet. Digger

quickdtoo · « **Reply #27 on:** April 14, 2013, 04:46:46 AM »

Thanks for the refresher Digger.

Tim

nanuk-O-dah-Nort · « **Reply #28 on:** April 14, 2013, 12:00:46 PM »

couldn't you just grind off the rim cutter, dull the rear flutes and ream deeper?

you'd need a way to measure the depth, but that shouldn't be too difficult.