Takedown Handi

[v8r]

I was recently looking at a Ruger 10-22 Takedown at the gunshop and thought a Takedown Handi would be neat. It would be fairly easy to do with one screw trouble is everyone here says the point of impact changes when you remove the forend.  if someone were to put a bedding pillar where the screw hole is along with glass bedding the forend to the barrel do you think the point of impact would change much? I figure the bedding pillar would have to be only slightly bigger than the major diameter of the forend screw. A knurled thumb screw would be used to retain the forend. I figure this would make removing and reinstalling of the forend as repeatable as possible. What does everyone think?

[Ol BW]

I have never had a problem with POI changing when I removed the barrel, but then I am not shooting for competition either. 

I believe that issue is like most all issues with guns, every one is a little different.  Now take into account they are subject to different conditions in different parts of the country with different people that have different ways of doing things and different expectations, its a wonder we can get anything to shoot straight!

I think you are on the right track with consistency.  If you read the Handi 101 and the FAQ'S at the top of the page it has a lot of the things you talked about that others have done.  Quickdtoo even has a torque screwdriver for consistent screw tightening.

 I think the first thing you should do is shoot.  Work on your technique.  Eliminate all possibilities one by one.  Take your barrel off put it back on and repeat.  Do this enough so that you can create a baseline.  Then start experimenting and compare the results with the baseline to tell if what you are doing helps or hurts or does no good.

You may find yours doesn't change POI either!

BW

[trotterlg]

What you want to find is an early H&R, they have a snap on forearm, I have one combo in .410 & 30-30.  Then you don't need any tools at all.  Larry

[quickdtoo]

V8r, Try a set screw in the forend stud(FAQs), it will keep the tension on the forend consistent as long as you're using a synthetic forend, maybe not so much with a wood forend tho if the moisture content of the wood changes due to humidity/weather changes, even extreme temp changes may cause a change tho too, we don't have extremes here, so I don't know for sure. My best solution is to set the forend screw torque with a torque screw driver, then it's always the same when I reinstall the forend regardless of conditions. But the set screw would be an easy way to achieve consistency without a lot of time and effort bedding.

Tim

[tiswell]

 I am very new to the H+R game, but I too read where folks were experiencing POI changes when removing and replacing barrels. I don't have any real life experiences yet as I just shot it for the second time last evening to establish zero and get an idea of the accuracy potential. The first outing yielded about a 3 inch, 5 shot group @117 yards. Following that, I opened the hole in the forend and epoxied in a stainless pillar. The pillar has a rubber oring captive in a groove inside so that when installed the only metal to metal contact it has is with the lug is at the forward and rear shoulder of the lug. The pillar I.D. is .020" larger that the barrel lug, so I think the lug O.D. will remain centered but not touch the pillar(picture would do wonders here, sorry). Then there is also the screw that contacts the pillar and lug threads. At any rate, last evenings groups were from just over 2 inches with same ammo as first outing (FedXM193F IIRC) to just under 2 inches for 3 shot groups from Fed American Eagle 50 grain IIRC. If time allows this evening I plan to remove and replace to see where it shoots with that ammo and then try some reloads to start the load development process. This barrel has about 20 rounds total down the tube. If the POI remains the same, I will attempt to post a sketch of the pillar. If it shifts I will keep trying.
                                                                                                                                                Blessings, Tiswell

[petemi]

Forgetting about POI changes, the main reason I don't swap barrels is, as before stated, I'm lazy.  In addition, it's a PITA.  All my Handi centerfire rifles and H&R/NEF shotguns wear butt stock ammo carriers that would also need to be changed.  It's a lot easier for me to just let them live on their own proven stock/frame/barrel combination and be done with it.  When I grab it, it shoots.  No wondering, no worries.  The cuff holds the ammo the rifle is sighted in for, and if I need a prompt, the  3x5 card under the cuff will tell me the load and zero range as well as plus and minus figures for more or less distance.  I can't do this easily swapping barrels.

Pete

[LaOtto222]

In the FAQ is a section on how to pillar bed your fore end. I have done this to all my barrels with the exception of a synthetic fore end. Each barrel has it's own fore end and they are pillar bedded. I have also bedded two of my fore ends with Duck tape and one with epoxy. It really is not hard to do,it takes more time to explain it than to do it. Once you have a pillar in place, then you can torque down the screw as you wish, the pillar will be against the barrel stud. I use a button screw in mine and use a shorty T-handled Allen wrench to change it out, it fits in your pocket or shooting/ammo box. The button head makes a smoother fore end to slide your hand on, but you could use a thumb screw, cap screw or a slotted/Phillips head as well.

Good Luck and Good Shooting

[Sourdough]

At 40 to 60 yards bullet impact changes are not that important.  But when I'm riding along on a trail and I spot something 500 yards up the trail, POI changes are a stopper.  I not only want to have confidence that the bullet will hit the animal, but hit it where I want it to hit the animal.  So I can not afford to have a POI change.  I no longer change barrels with my 30-06s and 25-06s, they are dedicated to their own frames.  Now the 45-70 frame has a 20ga barrel, and a 50 cal BP barrel.  I often change the barrels on this gun.  The 45-70, or the BP barrel does not have a scope, just peep sights.  Shots with it are usually from a tree stand over bait, with a 9 inch kill zone. 

[Ol BW]

Sourdough, at 500 yds a heart beat or breath at the wrong time can change POI!  For those situations it pays to negate every variable possible!  I understand what you're doing, you have a set expectation and a criteria your rifles must meet. 

For many of us in the lower 48 (myself included) rifles border on a pastime rather than depending on them.

BW

[tacklebury]

Albeit I have not tested it to 500 yards, my switch barrel has been tested at 300 yards several times.  I get very good consistency switching and my .223 still shoots 1/3 MOA even after being off for an extended period.  I even threw on my step brother's .30-30 and it was ready to go and locked right on.  I make sure all my studs have the exact same size band, (I use ones from braces, not O-rings) and I put one on each stud and one on the screw I use.  Works for me.    Mines been fine with .223 lite and heavy, .30-30, .357 Mag, .45 Colt and .45-70.  Only the .45-70 & .223 were tested at longer ranges, but no issues to date. 

[hoytcanon]

I swap barrels all the time... I have only two Handi's on dedicated receivers... the rest are paired... I came up with a method to preset the forearm tension by using a knurled knob and 1/4X20 thread stem which is cut and filed to "bottom-out" in the barrel stud with the desired tension... by using a dedicated forearm and the pretensioned knob, the pressures are replicated consistently... IME there has been no noticeable POI shift to 300 meters... I have swapped barrels on alternating five shot groups and have done so with 8 combos and no noticeable shifting of POI... I have not tested it at longer ranges.
 

[Ranger99]

if a handi rifle or topper was
dis-assembled and was needed
in a big hurry as in if some big
uglies were bearing down on you,
there wouldn't be any need to
screw the forearm in place to get off
a shot. the first could be taken with
no forearm in place if need be, or the
forearm could be slipped into place
and the shot could taken until there was
time to properly install at your leisure.

[YRUpunting?]

I make sure all my studs have the exact same size band, (I use ones from braces, not O-rings) and I put one on each stud and one on the screw I use.

Tacklebury will you expand on this?  What do you mean "ones from braces"?

[tacklebury]

Well, my daughter has had braces for nearly 7 years.  Every few months they would change the strength of the bands in her braces.  So I absconded with all the extras at the end of each period and still have some bags of them.  They are  a little thinner than the O-rings and I like the way the forearm rides a little better with (2) of them, one on the screw and one on the stud. 

[YRUpunting?]

Well, my daughter has had braces for nearly 7 years.  Every few months they would change the strength of the bands in her braces.  So I absconded with all the extras at the end of each period and still have some bags of them.  They are  a little thinner than the O-rings and I like the way the forearm rides a little better with (2) of them, one on the screw and one on the stud. 

I was thinking hardware store not dentist!

[geezerbiker]

With my .45-70 I had to put in a o-ring.  The stock set is from a 12 gauge Pardner shotgun and the barrel channel was just a bit too big.  With the right o-ring in there it's just right and with it in there it looks like it was made that way...

I have both inch and metric o-ring assortment sets so finding just the right one was easy.

Tony

[rfd]

Forgetting about POI changes, the main reason I don't swap barrels is, as before stated, I'm lazy.  In addition, it's a PITA.  All my Handi centerfire rifles and H&R/NEF shotguns wear butt stock ammo carriers that would also need to be changed.  It's a lot easier for me to just let them live on their own proven stock/frame/barrel combination and be done with it.  When I grab it, it shoots.  No wondering, no worries.  The cuff holds the ammo the rifle is sighted in for, and if I need a prompt, the  3x5 card under the cuff will tell me the load and zero range as well as plus and minus figures for more or less distance.  I can't do this easily swapping barrels.

Pete

i'm totally onboard with pete - set and forget, never a need to swap barrels. 

handi's are Cheap, and like them 'tater chips, ya can't have just one!

[ironglow]

  Frankly, I have not noticed any real POI shift.. but then, all of my Handi stocks now are synthetic, I don't shoot competitively and never for 500 yards.
  By definition, a "take down" rifle doesn't seem to fit (IMO) the description of a competition rifle.  Using them for hunting, I find more problems with positions, shooter comfort and B.R.A.S.S... than with barrel changes.
     One nice addition; replace takedown screw with an oval head, countersunk, slotted machine screw.  The oval head is raised just enough to allow good access for changing and the slot can be worked with back of pocket knife blade, coin, washer or even the rim of a cartridge.  No special tools needed..
   I tried brazing a half washer into the slot for a permanent "handle'.. but it was uncomfortable when resting the forearm in the hand while shooting.

[v8r]

I was thinking primarily at just being able to take the rifle down so it would fit in a backpack  without loss of zero. I was thinking along the line of a " survival" rifle . Most likely in a pistol caliber. I was thinking my .357 would work.

[ironglow]

I was thinking primarily at just being able to take the rifle down so it would fit in a backpack  without loss of zero. I was thinking along the line of a " survival" rifle . Most likely in a pistol caliber. I was thinking my .357 would work.

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  Sounds good to me..an excellent choice.  Just remember to keep that forestock screw where you can R&R it easily in the field.  As Ranger99 said..you don't NEED the forestock in an emergency.  As an added bonus..ammo availability.. .38 Special will work also..
  Don't be too concerned with point shift when remounting the barrel..normally, Handis are plenty accurate for those purposes.  Do use the O-ring though..and I always leave the screw with the barrel, that way you won't lose the O=ring.
  The screws are cheap, perhaps you can keep a couple extra in your backpack..

[v8r]

Yeah my .357 gets mostly .38 special +s shot out of it all the time.
Deadly accurate at 75 yards, good enough to shoot squirrels on the ground and turtles out of the pond.

[petemi]

I was thinking primarily at just being able to take the rifle down so it would fit in a backpack  without loss of zero. I was thinking along the line of a " survival" rifle . Most likely in a pistol caliber. I was thinking my .357 would work.

It works just fine.  Here's my 16.5 inch Maxi take down.

Pete

[ironglow]

Nice looking rifle Pete..    Of course, that doesn't look like .38s 0or .357s in that ammo holder...

[petemi]

They're Maxi 180 SSPs cruising at 2150.  They're just in there for the pic.  Normally there's three slow loaded 158 gr. .38s, three .357 mag  XTPs, and three of the Maxis.  She's good for about anything on the U.P.

Pete
 

[rdlange]

I too like the take down idea.  I'm making a travel case for my Topper 30-30.  It may have the advantage of constant pressure because of the snap on forend.  I'll be trying it with the forend on and off, then with frequent take downs to see if/how it changes POI.

LUK with your project.

[cjrjck]

I have so many receivers and barrels now, I rarely swap but when I did, the POI seemed not to be an issue. I always felt this was due to the action type. It just seems that with a break open design, a lot of things move around anyway. Taking the barrel off and putting it back on again doesn't seem to make a difference.

[jlwilliams]

  I think that we're talking about issues that may not really be important in the context of the OP's takedown rifle rig.  Everything has it's pros and cons, and every trade off has to be weighed in the context of "is this important in this case?"
 
   In the case of a takedown rifle you are by definition going to give a little something for the compact traveling package.  The idea that this is something you will be putting together in a hurry to end some impending threat is out of context.  For instantly ready defense, you carry a handgun loaded and on your person unless you are in a place where a heavy bore guide gun or the like is appropriate.  Likewise, if you are going for a 500+ yard cold bore shot, you are going out with a rifle that is set up for that.  You will have given up the convenience of the compact light weight takedown in favor of a long range hunting rifle.  The '60s movie "Day of the Jackal" was fiction, and I decline to believe otherwise.    A takedown rifle is something you travel with, then assemble at your destination. It's a gun more suited for the traveling, but still useful when you get there.
 
  If you want to set up a Handi as a takedown, that's a great plan.  I'd suggest cutting the barrel so that it's the same length as your stock and action.  That way they fit into a case neatly.  I'd suggest a screw with a finger tighten-able knob, but then again if you keep a screw driver in the case that's fine too.  As for POI shift, you may get some but not likely enough to make a difference in typical game shots.  Once you shoot the gun a bit, you will know what sort of shots you can make and what you can't.   Your choice of cartridge (cartridges?) is going to make a much greater impact on how you can use this than the fraction of an inch shift from set up will.  If you do it with (for example) 30-30, you will probably won't have enough shift to notice much within the range where that round is used.  One inch one way or the other at 75 yards is still right in the boiler room on a whitetail.  If you want to shoot something 500 yards away with it, you'll need comfortable shoes because your walking most of the way there before you shoot it  . 
 
  So, what do you have in mind cartridge wise?  Do you want something mid to large game-ish, or maybe a 22 Hornet to pop woodchucks and whatever other small game you come across?  Maybe a two or three barrel set?  Tell us more about the takedown rifle of your dreams......... 

[cudatruck]

how about a .357max and a 28 or 20 ga barrel to go with? those two would be perfect set of pot fillers. could add a longer range barrel but then i would want a scope... too much weight and worry about the scope. with a youth syn stock or pw lightened up would be nice and light.

[trotterlg]

Not much to gain by cutting the barrel shorter than the stock/receiver length, that would probably work out to about 17 1/2 to 18 inches.  Larry

[cudatruck]

i was just looking at my 20inch .223 barrel. it came with open sights and d&T for scope mount. i think this is a superlite? this is the barrel H&R should have chambered in .357 instead of the boat anchor profile it comes in. probably be cost prohibitive to have it re bored and chambered... but what a nice idea.