To Idle or not....

[JonnyReb]

  Just curious about idling a gas motor versus lots of warm starts during an engines lifespan, which mode of operation leads to a longer engine life?

 Rather than turn my truck motor on and off all day during my short repair calls to homeowners I often let my truck idle, when my dogs with me I let it run all day long in the summer for the a/c. I've run between 250-300, 000 miles up on my various trucks and it was never engine trouble that resulted in their sale. I've never worn an engine out even considering high mileage and lots of idling. I do use high quality oil and lucas oil and gas additives consistently.

  Does idling hurt a motors lifespan or is 20 plus daily off/ons more likely to wear a motor? Thoughts? J

[Ranger99]

i would think extended periods of idling
would be worse for wear of engine parts
due to heat. (of course, it's hotter here
most of the year)
frequent starts would do more damage to your
starter and flywheel, but then, those are
easier to replace than internals.
i'd have to say six of one, and half dozen
of the other.

[Oldshooter]

I am certainly no mechanic but it seems to me that on off would be harder on the engine. The gap between ignition and oil pressure may be the difference. If your engine is not heating up/ overheating then idling doesn't make me think it would hurt it.
 
Take that and a buck fitty and get some coffee.
 
Maybe Larry L knows.

[Lloyd Smale]

the electrical company i worked for was allways trying to save money. They wondered the same which was going to be cheaper. Shutting off saved gas but starting and stopping also added wear and tear. Typicaly our meter readers started there truck in the mornings and other then a 1/2 hour at lunch they ran all day.  What they found and this wasnt some scientific test. They just took two of the larger shops and each did it one way for the meter readers pickups. Shutting off ended up being the cheapest if you were going to be away from your vehicle for less then 5 minutes. They did this over a two year period and the only differnce they found in vechile maitanance was in batterys and starters and the gas savings more then made up the differce. I guess to if it didnt make sense why would the car manufactures start making cars that shut down at stop signs.

[Larry L]

While I know you probably don't think so, this question is about as broad as why does electricity work. So many variables, so many different types. I can blow thu several scenarios for you though. An unheated O2 sensor will see the sensor cooling off during idle and then the PCM will cause the injection system to start running a richer A/F ratio which can damage the cats. Heated O2 sensors will have to run the heater part and will cause cause early failure. You also have the issue with the exhaust system. As an engine idles, combustion temps fall as does the flow of the hot combustion gases. The exhaust system will start to condense water in the system and cause it to form rust. Even stainless systems rust so don't buy into the stainless exhaust stuff. And in case you weren't aware, as exhaust gases cool they become heavy. Back pressure will increase and will eventually increase enough that the PCM can't account for the extra CO2 and will attempt to adjust for it. Should the engine have miles on it, at idle the ring packs will be weak and blowby will happen. This usually causes more oil consumption than normal at idle. The cats will suffer. A multi point injection system can start to run cool at the intake and gas will start to form droplets that will not burn. When you get back to driving it surges the O2 sensors causing the PCM to momentarily go nutz trying to compensate. A direct injected engine will form carbon/soot deposits on the center of the piston. It can be cleared with any kind of hiway driving but deposits will end up in the oil as they stick to the oiled cylinder walls.Throttle body engines are no better than a carbed engine and will puddle gas in the intake. Fuel dilution will occur in the oil.

Please don't use the Lucas. Lucas should be the poster boy for snake oil. All that you'll find in a bottle of Lucas oil additive is polymers- that's their business. Polymers are the additives that were noted in the 90's for falling out of suspension and causing major sludge issues. All it will do is make the oil thicker. If you NEED a thicker oil, buy one. But avoid the Lucas crapola. Fuel system cleaners are another bag of snake oils. There are only 2 types that actually work, a PEA( polyetheramine) [/size]which is an ester, and a stoddard solvent based cleaner. Both types work as intended. Most of the crap you buy for an injection cleaner is nothing but a dose of kerosene. That's not going to do much for the system. Fuel system cleaners like Gumout WITH REGANE (Regane is a PEA), Techron (uses both PEA and Stoddard), or BG44 (uses both like Techron). Most any other is going to be kerosene or naphtha. Techron is the only gas additive approved by all car makers.If you want to extend the life of the engine  especially a commercial engine, here's a tip. Most likely if the engine is new, the oil spec calls for a Xw-20 oil. They work as well as any oil you've ever used and are at minimum a blend of synthetic bases and dino bases. So you get the best attributes of both types of base oils. As the engine wears, it will wear first at the lower main bearings. As these bearings wear they will leak oil out. On the rod caps is a nozzle that provides a spray of oil for the pistons. As the mains start to leak, less oil is sprayed to the ring packs. You can have a perfectly great running engine with rings starving for oil. Depending on how much town driving you do, it's been shown that going up one viscosity grade will add life to the engine as it restores the oil flow at the rings. So some where around 125-150,000 miles, it's a good idea to step up to the next viscosity of oil. When doing this, avoid the Energy Conserving oils as they are on the thin end of the Kinematic Viscosity scale.

[SHOOTALL]

I don't know about idling some of our trucks do just so the crew can listen to the radio , I mean charge drill bats. We go 200000 and more with a lot of trucks these days. As for Lucas It has worked for us as has Amesoil and other syn products.

[FPH]

Cummins engineer says no to idleing a diesel, even on high idle......causes cylinder wash.....burnt pistons, and oil dilution with fuel.......not enough load to keep the cylinders hot and expanded.  I've got 350,000 on my engine with no excessive idleing.

[FPH]

Pistons....not cylinders

[JonnyReb]

  Thank you guys for all the replies. Feel like everyone answered my question and i'm causing wear to the engines and exhaust systems. Only makes sense and LarryL's (thank you Larry that was written beautifully)play by play of the consequences explains why i've replaced lots of Cats and exhaust systems. I figured my letting motors idle was the reason but now i know.

 Larry , what you said about Lucas products really hurt my feelings
 I've used their products for at least 15+ years and use it with every oil change, except every 30,000 when i slip it some Slick 50 high mileage . The lucas gas additive i use as a lubricant rather than a cleaner, those polymers do nogood as such? Does the lucas not add viscosity to the oil? I typically use rotella 15\40 because the family in laws drove commercial trucks through the 70-80's and it was "the best their is" . I KNOW theres lots better oils but i gotta say that all their old chevy pickups out lived them. I change it when it gets dark.

 My last 3 chevy vans had 230-260 and 285,000 miles, all on 305 and one 350 motor. They were all tight and using about a half quart of oil per 2,500 and 3,000 miles. Seems like they always did that though. They were good trucks. Since the rise of gas prices i do my routes in a 4 banger Tacoma with 232,000 on the clock. Its been perhaps the best vehicle i've ever owned from a reliabilty standpoint. I decided that i'd run it till it dies just to see when that may be. Will need and exhaust system soon though, guess i know why.

[FPH]

My last 5.7 had 330,000 miles on it whe I sold it, it never saw a fuel or oil additive.  I only let it breath with headers and a amodified air intake.

[Larry L]

Oh you guys, you really know how to hurt a guy! Amsoil being screwed up with Lucas, Rotella 15/40 being thickened with Lucas- holy crap! Arg! Vomit!. Blah! That hurts and it's not even my trucks. Amsoil can be a good maintenance tool where down time for an oil change is money. Should you have an oil related failure and the engine still be in warranty, the maker will require an oil analysis be performed. When it comes back as Amsoil, you're on yer own. They will not cover any Amsoil oil products. The warranty then falls to Amsoil who likewise will ask for oil samples. They will immediately find the Lucas and guess what- yer on yer own. Lucas is nothing but polymers that thicken the oil. These polymers are known to fall out of suspension and cause sludge. It's your engine but at least you know.


For the Slick 50, I assume you know that DuPont will not sell Quaker State, owner of Slick 50 products, any TFE resins that were in the original formulation. Here's the MSDS on it. Note country of origin and composition. See anything that remotely resembles a lube, friction modifier, extreme pressure agent?
http://www.rittco.com.au/resources/Safety-Data/SLICK50_ENG_TRT_HI_MILEAGE.pdf
This why you don't use additives....of any kind especially if you have no clue what yer buying. These companies spend millions a year in advertising to sucker folks into their programs. Most don't hurt anything but the wallet. But few actually do anything BUT lighten the wallet. And FWIW, Rotella takes a backseat to nothing. It's a great oil but most of the engines today would just about choke on a 15w-40. Kindly remember  a thinner fluid will gather and absorb more heat, get back to the pan quicker, release that heat and get back on the job faster than a thicker fluid. Using a high viscosity oil in an engine that's not designed for it can result in hot spots in the engine. It will NOT appear on the temp gauge but the steel/aluminum parts are cooking. Older engine designs will tolerate it, most of the new ones won't so be careful and use the makers recommended fluids. Rotella also comes in 5w-30 for your consideration.



FWIW, there's a lot of 350 GM engines on the road with 500,000 miles on the clock and still running strong. Most never see a quality oil except WalMart oil and they are obviously doing fine. The key is changing per makers recommendations. Yeah, you can buy oils that will go farther but unless you are on the full program with by-pass filtration, you're just stacking up more and more particulates until the oil can no longer hold them. You'll start having deposits form in the galleries, lifters getting noisy, usually the engine will start to smell hot in the summer, all signs of things going south inside the engine. Years ago we  thought an engine with 100,000 miles on the clock was high mileage. Most any reasonably maintained engine can go 250,000 miles easily as that is ILSACs design parameters now.


One other thing you might want to know about- direct injected engines. The 3.5 EcoBust and the GM 3.6 are clones. Both makers have lost engines due to oil failures. These direct injected engines are beating the oil up like no other engine designs. Regardless of makers recommendation do not run ANY oil over 5000 miles in these engines unless you have numerous trending oil reports saying otherwise. I've even seen Amsoils 25000 mile oil , the Signature series, fail at 7000 miles. My advice, avoid these engines.


For the Lucas user, the link has expired but the few pics left are relevant as to how Lucas performs.....or actually how it screws up good lubrication.
http://web.archive.org/web/20100926133335/http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/images/lucas/lucas.htm

[JonnyReb]

 
 
  you write it, i will read. .  I just learned more than 10th grade shop class ever taught me, thanks again for the great posts. Not sure i can quit the additives . They're ingrained in my head but i will take your words under consideration. I really will. Is a hard habit to quit though. j

 Oh and btw, i DO run 5wt mobile one or similar in my wifes HHR with its little 2.2 or 2.4, whichever. I hate the internal oil filter on that motor

 again btw, that link to "Bob the oil guy" is pretty convincing. Now the fact remains that my sub 300,000 engines haven't seemingly been impacted by using Lucas but like i said, i'll keep checking this out. Sure would save me a bunch o' money.

 

[Ranger99]

heat
i said that about the ecojunk when we
first got our little monthly dealer magazine,
"how are they going to deal with the heat?"
most folks don't realize the terrific amount
of under hood heat generated by a turbocharger,
let alone two. then tell folks to extend their
oil change intervals? 
but when you work for the brand, you sure
can't say anything in front of them. out loud anyway.

[FPH]

Larry....I use Rotella 15-45 in my Cummis with 350,00 miles on it.  Would I be wise to switch to Rotella T synthetic?  Thanks

[Larry L]

Ranger99, I don't understand Ford at all. They're pushing an engine that has an iffy history and an iffy future as a reliable power plant. The only engine I would have in an F150 today is the 6.2. The mules we get to see are getting better fuel mileage than the EcoBust and is a reliable design with few gadgets to have to fix or maintain. Most of the 6.2s are getting close to 20 mpgs hiway yet the track record for the plagued EB is about 17-18 hiway with 13-14 town being common. Have ya'll seen many EBs coming back with stalling issues? We're seeing them all over down here. The issue is the intake cooler is making water. When the driver gets heavy on the gas, it sucks the water up into the engine where it almost dies. The PCM shuts the engine down into limp mode and yer basically hung out to dry....or die. How'd ya like to drive that around an 18 wheeler in heavy traffic? And Ford has no fix for it! Some of our engineers have plumbed a calibrated orifice in the bottom of the cooler that goes to the brake vacuum to keep a steady suction on the condensate. A simple fix that's also cheap. But it's also their trucks.

[Larry L]

FPH, not unless you have arctic cold startups. The Cummins and Rotella 15/40 is a match made in heaven apparently as engine life is exceptionally long with that combo. Cold startups is the only advantage of the synthetic Rotella.

[FPH]

FPH, not unless you have arctic cold startups. The Cummins and Rotella 15/40 is a match made in heaven apparently as engine life is exceptionally long with that combo. Cold startups is the only advantage of the synthetic Rotella.

Thanks....I'm out in W Texas-S New Mexico( not too cold)....Sam's here I come for my Rotella.  I plan on this truck making it to 100,000,000 miles before a rebuild.

[Ranger99]

they had a good one with the 2-valve
4.6-5.4 then they screwed it up with
the 3 valve and the accompanying
mortgage-your-house sparkplugs and
the stripped plug hole problem.
they keep extending service intervals
to an extreme degree and folks are
now conditioned to drive until the
vehicle lays down and is beyond a
reasonably priced repair.
myself, it's easier and cheaper to
me to spend dollars on preventative
maintenance and gasoline than get
good mileage and go in hock to
replace internals. i'll stick with
my old 5.8 carbureted gas hog and
OHV 3.0
i can fix those myself. (knock on wood)

[Lloyd Smale]

Larry what do you think of sea foam. Ive been using it for years mostly in small engines and it seems to help them run a bit better especially after sitting all winter and gettting crud build up in the fuel system. Is there really any benifit to me throwing a bottle in my truck every year?

[SHOOTALL]

Fact we had a truck that could not go 100 miles with out losing 3+ quarts of oil. Changed filter and added 3 qts Amsoil and 2 qts Lucas oil treatment never had another problem . Each oil change after 4 qts Amsoil and 1 qt Lucas oil additive. When Lucas was started truck had over 180000 miles on it. When I sold it it was over 225000 miles. I have lost touch with the new owner but last time we talked he had over 300000 on it. We now use in in all trucks over 150000 and several are well over 300000 miles now.
 I know a mechanic who like most did not believe Lucas would work but he had a car that was burning oil also so I told him to try one qt in it ( he keeps my stock to service my trucks.) that was fri. Mon he called me and said he could not believe it but it worked. His daughter drove the car for a couple more years.
 Will it always work ? probably not but it may and for the cost vs an engine its worth a shot.

[JonnyReb]

 Shootall, you just made me remember that when my power steering rack started squealing at about 200,000
miles i removed most of the old fluid and put Lucas PS fluid in it. It took about 3000 miles to disappear completely but that power steering is still working GREAT right now and doesn't squeal a bit.  J

[SHOOTALL]

sometimes real world experience does not mirror test and paper work. Not that either are wrong just sometimes a product works for some and not for others.

[Oldshooter]

Larry L what about Royal Purple. Have an opinion on that stuff? Its a synthetic. is it just purple or what?

[Larry L]

Lloyd, Seafoam is nothing but pale oil which is a light oil- think 20 weight, like ATF with no additives, and it has naphtha and Isopropyl alcohol in it- that's it. What you get is a weak solvent. The pale oil is the carrier, the naphtha and IPA are the actual working ingredients. In a fuel system, you already have ethanol alcohol so the only benefit of Seafoam is whatever naphtha brings. But it is a solvent and solvents are made to strip lubrication- that's how they work. This has no place being put in the oil like some folks do. Alcohol is about the worst thing you can put in oil. Might as well be water....actually water would do less damage. Cramming this stuff down the intake CAN do several things, break hot internal parts like valves and pistons. I've rebuilt far too many engines from friends kids thinking this crap was a good thing only to find cracked pistons or pieces missing from pistons. The other thing is you can pretty much kiss the cats good-bye. I don't care what Seafoam says about it being cat safe. You cannot run a bunch of oil down an engine and expect it not to coat the cats. It will eventually burn off, no doubt, but the damage is already done.
http://www.mta.ca/administration/facilities/safety/msds/Grounds/Seafoam%20Auto%20Marine%20Engine%20treatment%20-%20SeaFoam%20Sales%20Co.%202010.pdf



Shootall, adding that much Lucas, all you did was gum it up. Probably could have used a 60wt oil and done the same thing. Adding Lucas only thickens the oil that you put in it. For a beater, like you say, you don't have much to lose by trying it. Same with Restore. It's for beater engines only. FWIW, we don't use paper here, we do the actual real world testing with cars and trucks that are driven. The results are highly scrutinized by some some of the best research scientists in the world. No, we don't just throw a product in the vehicle and run it a few thousand miles and call it. Most of the products are tested for many thousands of miles and a lot go into the million mark. Some of the test specs exceeds anything you'll ever do to a engine. An example, the European Autobahn test. A group of engines are set up for the test with whatever product(s). They are started and run at wide open throttle for 1500 hours without being shut down. I'll let you do that math as to how many work weeks at 40 hours per week would be. Another is the Town Test. A vehicle is subject to full throttle acceleration to 30 MPH and then the brakes hammered as hard as possible without locking up the tires. This goes on for days. Drivers absolutely hate being assigned to this test as they are absolutely exhausted by the end of an 8 hour shift.


Royal Purple makes nothing, they are a blender just like Amsoil. They buy their components on the open market. Amsoil gets their base products from Mobil/Exxon and additive package comes from Lubrizol. RP gets their base from BP Houston and additives from Conoco/Phillips. The most expensive ingredient in RP is the purple dye. Any oil formulation is a balance of base and additive package. Neither works alone so it's a synergistic relationship. There's absolutely nothing remarkable about RPs formulation. RP has been hammered numerous times for false advertising in regards to their oil making more power, makes an engine last longer, etc. It's a good oil and I'm not knocking it as such, but for the money, there are better products out there that will exceed wear reports of RP.


If you are a synthetic user, the best formulation out there right now is G Oil. But like any synthetic oil, it has draw backs. Do not use it if the engine sits a lot or is used near water. The base is a polyol ester and does not handle moisture or water well. Just frequent startups with cold engines and short trips can kill it.

[SHOOTALL]

Lloyd, Seafoam is nothing but pale oil which is a light oil- think 20 weight, like ATF with no additives, and it has naphtha and Isopropyl alcohol in it- that's it. What you get is a weak solvent. The pale oil is the carrier, the naphtha and IPA are the actual working ingredients. In a fuel system, you already have ethanol alcohol so the only benefit of Seafoam is whatever naphtha brings. But it is a solvent and solvents are made to strip lubrication- that's how they work. This has no place being put in the oil like some folks do. Alcohol is about the worst thing you can put in oil. Might as well be water....actually water would do less damage. Cramming this stuff down the intake CAN do several things, break hot internal parts like valves and pistons. I've rebuilt far too many engines from friends kids thinking this crap was a good thing only to find cracked pistons or pieces missing from pistons. The other thing is you can pretty much kiss the cats good-bye. I don't care what Seafoam says about it being cat safe. You cannot run a bunch of oil down an engine and expect it not to coat the cats. It will eventually burn off, no doubt, but the damage is already done.
http://www.mta.ca/administration/facilities/safety/msds/Grounds/Seafoam%20Auto%20Marine%20Engine%20treatment%20-%20SeaFoam%20Sales%20Co.%202010.pdf



Shootall, adding that much Lucas, all you did was gum it up. Probably could have used a 60wt oil and done the same thing. Adding Lucas only thickens the oil that you put in it. For a beater, like you say, you don't have much to lose by trying it. Same with Restore. It's for beater engines only. FWIW, we don't use paper here, we do the actual real world testing with cars and trucks that are driven. The results are highly scrutinized by some some of the best research scientists in the world. No, we don't just throw a product in the vehicle and run it a few thousand miles and call it. Most of the products are tested for many thousands of miles and a lot go into the million mark. Some of the test specs exceeds anything you'll ever do to a engine. An example, the European Autobahn test. A group of engines are set up for the test with whatever product(s). They are started and run at wide open throttle for 1500 hours without being shut down. I'll let you do that math as to how many work weeks at 40 hours per week would be. Another is the Town Test. A vehicle is subject to full throttle acceleration to 30 MPH and then the brakes hammered as hard as possible without locking up the tires. This goes on for days. Drivers absolutely hate being assigned to this test as they are absolutely exhausted by the end of an 8 hour shift.Maybe , maybe not but it worked. What I think is sometimes a ring sticks or a seat gets hard and the Lucas might work to soften the seat or fill in around it which goes along with your saying gummed up. Not sure but with the ring it may work to free it or fill in once more / Or it could be the ring moved and the seal was restored and would have been . The Syn oil is a cleaner and that could also effected the rings . My point I have seen it appear to work and keep in mind in all cases it was on an engine that was headed to failure and nothing to lose. While we are talking I have switched to NAPA syn oil. and we are experiencing the same service. We went to Amsoil back 20 years ago because we had a hard time getting drivers to get the service on their trucks. We experienced some failures due to lack of oil changes. One truck never had oil changed in 800000 miles , when it got low enough the engine locked up. So I got involved , got Amsoil 24000 mile oil and changed it every 6000 miles , My thought was if they missed a change the truck might still be protected. We had no failure, we also used in in transmissions and rears. We had no failures for years. Times got tight we wenr back to standard oil and with in a year had replaced an engine or two ad three transmissions along with 4 rears. So now we use the NAPA syn and for 4 years or so now no more failure. Most of our fleet has over 150000 some over 300000 . Our trucks are 1/2 , 3/4 and 1 ton trucks a mix of Chevy, Ford, Dodge and Toyota . In my truck I test things , When I first got a Ford diesel I kept fuel records of mileage. When I switched to all syn oil and trans fluid fuel millage improved from 19 mpg to 23 mpg. for on the road driving. of course the trade off was it took a long time to warm up. Yes I started plugging it in 
I'm not a big fan of additives either or gimmicks but when things help I can't ignore it. Would I put Lucas in a new truck no. Would I use syn in a new truck no we wait 15000 or more miles.
Also the info you post is helpful and thank you , I was just posting personal experience which is limited to a small fleet of no more than 45-50 trucks at max times.


Royal Purple makes nothing, they are a blender just like Amsoil. They buy their components on the open market. Amsoil gets their base products from Mobil/Exxon and additive package comes from Lubrizol. RP gets their base from BP Houston and additives from Conoco/Phillips. The most expensive ingredient in RP is the purple dye. Any oil formulation is a balance of base and additive package. Neither works alone so it's a synergistic relationship. There's absolutely nothing remarkable about RPs formulation. RP has been hammered numerous times for false advertising in regards to their oil making more power, makes an engine last longer, etc. It's a good oil and I'm not knocking it as such, but for the money, there are better products out there that will exceed wear reports of RP.


If you are a synthetic user, the best formulation out there right now is G Oil. But like any synthetic oil, it has draw backs. Do not use it if the engine sits a lot or is used near water. The base is a polyol ester and does not handle moisture or water well. Just frequent startups with cold engines and short trips can kill it.

[Lloyd Smale]

I guess alot of this stuff cant be proved a 100 percent either way. Ive dumped sea foam in a rough running motor and would swear i could almost hear it smoothing out within minutes. Maybe its that i wanted it too smoothen out badly or that its just that that when that piece of crud that was gumming things out decided to let go on its own. Shootall could be seeing the same. Ive never see fuel milage increase that much in any vehicle but then i dont fool with diesels either and that could be why. My guess is maybe it helped a little and maybe the truck was drove a little more gently through the miles it improved or the weather was better, tires were better inflated ect ect. I  guess to everyone has a differnt opinion. The guy that turned me on to sea foam was in his younger days was one of the mechanics on the miss budwieser race boat. Now to be fair that was 20 years ago and im sure the opinions of many mechanics have changed over those 20 years. But he did swear by it. Same goes with synthetic oils. Some swear by them and some say there a waste of money. I have to ask why if there not at least a little better does chev recomend it for even there 600 hp zl1 corvette. They know that motor is going to be run hard and being blown is under alot of stress. Id think knowing they have to warantee it for 3 years that theyd want you to run nothing but the best possible oils.

[Oldshooter]

I have used seafoam in bad running engines(the fuel tank or carborator) and it has definitely made them run better. I dunno, maybe anything I would have put in would have worked but the seafoam did.

[Ranger99]

one of the things that can be done
to a vehicle this day and age is to
regularly change the fuel filter.
i change mine once a year minimum.
it helps reduce the strain on these
electric fuel pumps, and take out
a lot of the garbage that's in the
fuel we buy. (which is a lot)
in saying this, i'm also aware a
whole lot of the newer trucks no
longer have a replaceable fuel filter.
it would be worth someone's time
to put some kind of aftermarket
filter on a newer vehicle.

[FPH]

A filter that removes water is also helpful.  I know it plays havoc on injectors(diesel anyways).

[Larry L]

I'm going to try to comment on some of the things listed here but every time I type in an explanation  I get the dreaded "Forbidden" screen and everything is gone. I'll attempt this is multiple posts.
Shootall, you make the statement that synthetic is cleaner. That's a myth and advertising hype, not fact. Most GpI solvent refined "El Cheapo" oils have more solvency and cleaning ability. Yes, the base oil contains less impurities but after 1 mile that game is over. Because MOST synthetic oils are considered a premium product, the formulators will spend more investment in high grade detergents, but not all see it that way. Some formulations are ho-hum at best.


NAPA synthetic oil is made by Ashland. You know it by another name- Valvoline. The NAPA Gold Synthetic oil is the exact same formulation as Valvoline Max Life. It's a well balanced product.


ATFs. Because GM and Ford now share technologies in automatic transmissions, the Dexos and Mercon V are almost the same fluid, close enough anyway to use either or both. But you have listed Dodge trucks as well. That's a completely different mule. ONLY use Mopar ATF+4 or expect issues. When after market guys like Amsoil, Mobil, pick one, look to make an ATF, they do not get the frictional co-efficient numbers from the auto maker and the maker is not required to give it. They will test the OEM fluid and compare it to something they already have. If they have something close or in the ballpark per their judgement, it gets added to the label as being speced for that unit. Problem is Dodge is highly specialized and close doesn't get it. Yeah, it'll work but unit life will drop like a rock. We often hear folks say things like "well with XXX brand ATF the transmission runs cooler". But they don't stop to think that maybe the transmission clutches are binding instead of slipping like they were designed to do. So be a little careful what you put in a Dodge. Ford & GM are not quite so picky.


There's no more lubricity in any synthetic based oil except an ester based oil and it's so small you or your engine will never know it. Any fuel mileage improvements you see when changing are most likely due to the Kinematic viscosity rating, not the base oil. Any formulation that yields and fuel mileage improvements in a synthetic base can be formulated in a common conventional base oil with the exact same results.


No need to wait for putting a synthetic in any new unit. You can do it at mile #1 if you like as most new vehicles come with synthetics already in the components. They don't do it for fuel mileage so much as the synthetic oils can make the viscosity spread between arctic cold and summer heat without issues. It saves a lot of warranty issues.