Author Topic: Hanoi jane tells Vets boycotting her movie to GET A LIFE. (Read 6958 times)

Spirithawk · « **Reply #30 on:** April 12, 2013, 05:31:05 AM »

Quote from: ChungDoQuan on April 11, 2013, 04:39:03 PM

She was 23. She was protesting the war--- MANY people protested that war, including the soldiers. It seems like the people who are still bent out of shape over that are carrying an imaginary grudge that only means something to them. So, none of THEM did anything stupid when they were 20 something? "Never punish an adult for the sins of a child--- even if the child was you." Buddha

The atrocities she did were real, not imaginary, and she did MUCH more than just pose for pics. My, how noble of you to forgive her! You probably were not even born yet or was in diapers when this all took place. Have you ever sat down and talked to Vets who were actualy in Vietnam or who were in the POW camps she visited? The POWs she betrayed? Some died because of her betrayal! Who are you to tell those of us who were there that our grudges are imaginary? Your whole opinion of the situation is imaginary as you haven't a clue!

powderman · « **Reply #31 on:** April 12, 2013, 05:34:06 AM »

Quote

I think this is the first Hanoi Jane thread I've seen, where there has been no Hanoi Jane sympathisers claiming she really wasn't a traitor.

DDZ. HEH, that didn't take long did it?? I reckon the rest are watching the movie or in line for a book signing. I'd imagine an autograph from her would be a big prize for the liberal democrats here. POWDERMAN.

vabeachman · « **Reply #32 on:** April 12, 2013, 05:54:17 AM »

ChungDoQuan, Maybe you should get your math. Hanoi Jane was born in 1937, she went to Hanoi in 1972, that means she was 34-35 years old. Not some wild eyed crazy 20 something. She was full grown middle age adult and she knew exactly what she was doing. Why do you continue to post such fraudulent data?

ChungDoQuan · « **Reply #33 on:** April 12, 2013, 06:15:00 AM »

Oh, by all means waste as much energy as you want in self righteous hatred of a woman whom you all say is just a Hollywood bimbo, because THAT will show her. She won't be less of a millionaire, but she surely should feel guilty! I'm not defending what she did, but there were atrocities committed by both sides in that war. (I graduated high school in 1974, by the way. I had friends and family that went. Some did not come back.) The whole war was wrong. Like so many of the US's fake wars, it was just a way of being an imperialist power over a tiny country who had tried diplomatically to gain independence for decades. They just wanted to have their own leaders, instead of dictators appointed by Japan, China, France, and the US. She went there in 1972--- we were already pulling out, because by then the capitalists had sent enough young men to slaughter to make sure they could not threaten the capitalists HERE. But, hey, y'all go ahead and carry that hatred as long as you want, no matter how heavy it gets; no matter the ones that it hurts are you. Just don't wonder why I say if heaven is going to be full of y'all, I'd gladly go elsewhere. I wish you all peace, though I doubt you'll find it. $:-\$

vabeachman · « **Reply #34 on:** April 12, 2013, 06:23:27 AM »

you are obviously making excuses for her. I hate no one. I know her for what she is. For you to use the excuse that she was only 23 proves to me that you are emotionally attached to her and will use any lie available to defend her.

briarpatch · « **Reply #35 on:** April 12, 2013, 06:25:05 AM »

I dont know if jane knew what she was doing or not. A spoiled brat dont reason as well as the man that must work for a living, or the man that is forced to fight battles for the elite's pockets. The world is their's and as one anchor put it " the great unwashed," should bow to them.
Let jane do her thing. We all have much more to deal with than that long ago fiasco that most dont understand or want to. I sure dont, the war or jane.
I want go see her movie for many reasons. I am not a fan of hollywood or jane.
I cant judge jane on her repentance, dont have the authority. Yes she could be a little more understanding about the way she approaches it but there again, spoiled brat syndrome will always get in the way.

Shu · « **Reply #36 on:** April 12, 2013, 07:17:28 AM »

I enlisted at 17, Jane was in her 30s. So she was the kid?
The things she did in the PoW camps was not merely a protest of war. It was treason. If you look at todays laws about fighting Americans, going to foriegn lands and fighting against Americans or plotting Americans death what does that make you?

Personally I am against war but when our youth are sent into it, I support them wholeheartedley. Anything less is ridiculous. I don't support the politician but I support the people with boots on the ground. The boots on the ground people deserve every bit of respect we can give them becuase they basically said I will give my life for my country so that others can sit in safety. You don't have to agree with the war you can protest it, write your congress man, write letters to editors of papers but don't go to the enemy and cause American deaths.

So the next time you think Jane was some sweet innocent girl, stop thinking, obviously you are not good at it and shouldn't hurt yourself with the process.

williamlayton · « **Reply #37 on:** April 12, 2013, 07:28:37 AM »

There was a young woman in Texas who put a pick-ax thru the skull of one of her victims. She spent many years on death row.
She apologized and recognized her wrong. She went to her death and I did not relish either her dying or her living---I did forgive.
Jane has had some amount of heart softening. I know that.
I have better things to judge than her---like myownself.
As far as activity in the military---I have none that is of record.
As far as my leanings on the war--I started off following the MIC and later on from personal experiences, influence from some WWII GI's, changed my viewpoint to one of being more concerned about who wanted the war than about those who were being shoved into the meatgrinder, for the gain of those making money off their blood.
Some of those folks, I hope personally, rot in hell---and probably will.
You folks need to stop and remember some of those boys who just wanted the hell out of place and hated those who put them there.
Those were the folks I came to know----and they were not just a few.
Blessings

Savage .250 · « **Reply #38 on:** April 12, 2013, 07:30:19 AM »

There are times in which "time" does not cure the problem........... Or as Nancy ( Jane) might say, "just say....no.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #39 on:** April 12, 2013, 07:41:44 AM »

Jane like too many other Americans seem to think everyone but us are like they are from experiences in their lives, They excuse them for every wrong they commit and try to place blame on others mostly Americans who don't buy in to their BS. The NVA attacked because first the French then the Americans were some how causing it.
She like many today hate the military , hate what they do but can't separate the solider from the politics and since they can't disagree with the ones they worship and keep in office they take it out on the one guy who had no choice or control of events. There were others they went to Canada , they were allowed home but they did not go to NVN and cause harm to fellow Americans. She is what she is and seems she always will be . If you did not care for her in the 70's why care now ?

Spirithawk · « **Reply #40 on:** April 12, 2013, 07:51:49 AM »

It has nothing to do with whether the war was just or not. It has everything to do with traitorous acts and directly causing the death of some POWs! It is so easy for some not involved in any way to say how we who were should forgive and forget! I think some choose to forget and preach forgiveness because they are way too ashamed to remember and for some strange reason they think that means those who were victoms of such acts should forget too! Well got news for ya's. Not dang likely!

RevJim · « **Reply #41 on:** April 12, 2013, 09:58:08 AM »

Thanks for the post REVJIM, a good one! I all too often let the flesh take over and betray my faith. Can you forgive but not forget?

I forgot, she is about 16yrs older than me, she was no 23! And yes, absolutely, one can forgive; but no one ever really forgets. Forgetting is not the same as forgiveness, nor is it required to walk in the Light. In fact, many people I have forgiven I still do not trust; some of them I wouldn't trust around a dirty diaper in fact! However, the enemy will use your memory to try and condemn you for not "forgiving"; we forgive "by faith", its optional to remember it well or vaguely. Country Joe McDonald ( The Fish) a vet, who protested the war, ended up parting ways with her because she was a sell out, phony baloney Commie loving "Capitalist". That's an oxymoron for you, lol.
PS Hang in there Chung, Religion and Politics are always hot potatoes, lol.

LONGTOM · « **Reply #42 on:** April 12, 2013, 11:11:47 AM »

My Grand Father had a saying back when I was a little boy that I think lends it's self very well to this posting.

"When you place yourself high upon the pedestal of life you may think you will go far,
but it won't take the people very long to come to know you for what you really are"

I think most of us know what she really is.
Lest we never forget!!!

LONGTOM

Spirithawk · « **Reply #43 on:** April 12, 2013, 11:27:41 AM »

We aren't the ones who should be apologizing nor having to explain ourselve's!

powderman · « **Reply #44 on:** April 12, 2013, 11:29:01 AM »

SPIRITHAWK. Good post Sir, agreed. I've heard that she and hubby have been asked to leave several restaurants owned by VN vets, and rightly so. POWDERMAN.

bilmac · « **Reply #45 on:** April 12, 2013, 02:14:49 PM »

I was managing a wildlife refuge in the Nebraska sandhills and Turner was trying to buy a neighboring ranch to run his buffalo. The refuge shared a common boundary, so I would have had to deal with him about a buffalo tight boundary fence. I think that if Hanoi Jane had been involved at any time I probably would have had to just walk away. It may have cost me a wonderful job, but I just don't think I could have been anywhere near that woman in real life.

Luckily for me the deal fell through. The neighbors said that Turner was a pushy ahole and they didn't need his money.

ChungDoQuan · « **Reply #46 on:** April 12, 2013, 03:53:20 PM »

Maybe I'm missing something. How was visiting our POWs and having pictures taken treason? (OK, she was 30 something, not 20 something. I know a lot of teenagers in their 50s, though...)

I'm trying to see this from y'all's POV. She didn't start the war. In fact, her effect on the whole thing is pretty tiny. It seems more like she's become a scapegoat or a symbol of wrongs done to some of you. I am sorry for that. I'm sorry for ANY war. I just don't understand the hatred. I've always found hate to be a burden--- you have to carry it yourself, and usually, the person you hate will never even understand why you hate them.

yellowtail3 · « **Reply #47 on:** April 12, 2013, 03:58:56 PM »

Quote from: powderman on April 11, 2013, 05:42:26 AM

Hanoi jane has American blood on her hands.

YOU LIE! And you're a fool.

their blood is on the hands of the American leaders who sent them to fight against a people an ocean away, who presented no danger to the United States.

Spirithawk · « **Reply #48 on:** April 12, 2013, 04:22:00 PM »

Quote from: yellowtail3 on April 12, 2013, 03:58:56 PM

Quote from: powderman on April 11, 2013, 05:42:26 AM
Hanoi jane has American blood on her hands.

YOU LIE! And you're a fool.

their blood is on the hands of the American leaders who sent them to fight against a people an ocean away, who presented no danger to the United States.

And you know this how? Speaking for myself I know Vets that swear you are wrong and you can just excuse me if I believe those who saw things first hand before I do your opinion based on something you read or didn't read. You have a mighty volitile attitude and it wouldn't last long were you to call any of them fools and liars to their faces.

LONGTOM · « **Reply #49 on:** April 12, 2013, 05:16:14 PM »

CDQ, yellowtail3:

Sense I don't know you other then through this site may I ask each of you these same questions?
Did either of you serve in Nam?
Did either of you lose a loved one of maybe a good friend who was killed in Nam.
Would either of you have done the same thing she did had you had the means to do it at the time?

The above questions really have no bearing on this post and I will not judge you on your answers but it may give me a little better understanding as to why you can be so forgiving of what myself and many thousands consider a piece of trash.

There were thousands that protested that war including many that did so but still did their duty and served anyway.
I admit, I was lucky and did not have to go, again, thank you LORD.
My brother did and we were blessed that he did come home in one piece with a few scars to show for his time served but he returned a full alcoholic, but he made it home.
The NVC were all but through with fighting.
They had enough and were ready to give up the fight then she makes her grand little trip and gives them a speech about how most of the US were against the war and that they should fight on.
She told them we were starting to think about pulling out, which was the truth but that was all it took to give them a boost to continue the fight which cost us thousands more young lives.
You can protest a war all you want and that is fine with me.
We do still have freedom of speech to some extent but you don't go over to the other side and give them a pep talk and encourage them to fight on.
What she did was wrong and can only be viewed as nothing short of being a traitor.
It cost us thousands of young men & women, some of them were my friends, maybe some were your friends or family also and yet you care so little about them that you can let what she did go that easy.
I am sorry boys but I am not built that way.
I consider myself a very loyal person to my friends with very deep roots to my past and my family.
Like many of you, NAM was my time and being that close to going was not something I looked forward to.
I hated that war because it was nothing more then a political show of strength between Russia and the US.
As much as I hated it and in spite of the friends I lost over there I would have stepped up and did my duty.
Again, I am sorry but I can not forgive someone who goes out of their way to tear down what I consider part of my heritage.
She is and always will be a traitor in mine and many thousands of others eyes as long as we live.

LONGTOM

Spirithawk · « **Reply #50 on:** April 12, 2013, 05:31:06 PM »

Quote from: LONGTOM on April 12, 2013, 05:16:14 PM

CDQ, yellowtail3:

Sense I don't know you other then through this site may I ask each of you these same questions?
Did either of you serve in Nam?
Did either of you lose a loved one of maybe a good friend who was killed in Nam.
Would either of you have done the same thing she did had you had the means to do it at the time?

The above questions really have no bearing on this post and I will not judge you on your answers but it may give me a little better understanding as to why you can be so forgiving of what myself and many thousands consider a piece of trash.

There were thousands that protested that war including many that did so but still did their duty and served anyway.
I admit, I was lucky and did not have to go, again, thank you LORD.
My brother did and we were blessed that he did come home in one piece with a few scars to show for his time served but he returned a full alcoholic, but he made it home.
The NVC were all but through with fighting.
They had enough and were ready to give up the fight then she makes her grand little trip and gives them a speech about how most of the US were against the war and that they should fight on.
She told them we were starting to think about pulling out, which was the truth but that was all it took to give them a boost to continue the fight which cost us thousands more young lives.
You can protest a war all you want and that is fine with me.
We do still have freedom of speech to some extent but you don't go over to the other side and give them a pep talk and encourage them to fight on.
What she did was wrong and can only be viewed as nothing short of being a traitor.
It cost us thousands of young men & women, some of them were my friends, maybe some were your friends or family also and yet you care so little about them that you can let what she did go that easy.
I am sorry boys but I am not built that way.
I consider myself a very loyal person to my friends with very deep roots to my past and my family.
Like many of you, NAM was my time and being that close to going was not something I looked forward to.
I hated that war because it was nothing more then a political show of strength between Russia and the US.
As much as I hated it and in spite of the friends I lost over there I would have stepped up and did my duty.
Again, I am sorry but I can not forgive someone who goes out of their way to tear down what I consider part of my heritage.
She is and always will be a traitor in mine and many thousands of others eyes as long as we live.

LONGTOM

Well said Tom.

yellowtail3 · « **Reply #51 on:** April 12, 2013, 05:51:23 PM »

Quote from: Spirithawk on April 12, 2013, 04:22:00 PM

Quote from: yellowtail3 on April 12, 2013, 03:58:56 PM
Quote from: powderman on April 11, 2013, 05:42:26 AM
Hanoi jane has American blood on her hands.
YOU LIE! And you're a fool.

their blood is on the hands of the American leaders who sent them to fight against a people an ocean away, who presented no danger to the United States.
And you know this how?

Because I know how we got into Vietnam, and I know it wasn't Jane Fonda that got us there, OR WHO KEPT US THERE.

Quote

Speaking for myself I know Vets that swear you are wrong and you can just excuse me if I believe those who saw things first hand before I do your opinion based on something you read or didn't read.

Well, if these vets you know blame Jane Fonda for Vietnam war casualties, they're misinformed. Sincere, perhaps, but sincerely wrong.

Quote

You have a mighty volitile attitude and it wouldn't last long were you to call any of them fools and liars to their faces.

'volatile'? Well... I guess I was inspired by Rep Wilson's rhetorical flourish. I'm energetically challenging disinformation & buffoonery. I'm a veteran, son of a veteran (who saw combat in Vietnam on a couple deployments) and know what I'm talking about. There's opinion, there's feelings, and there's righteous anger... then there's fact. Fact is, Jane Fonda didn't get us into Vietnam, Jane Fonda didn't send half a million Americans to Vietnam into a war that cost hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese their lives. Jane Fonda didn't keep us in Vietnam.

Spirithawk, I get the 'we hate Jane' bit - really, I do. I've indulged in it myself, long ago. but fact is, most of the stuff you hear her accused of - passing notes, betraying POWs confidence, all that - it's BS and a lie. It's been debunked, over and over, by the very guys she supposedly did it to. It gets repeated by certain types over and over, and also by some who just don't know better. I know better, and you should, too.

Quote from: Spirithawk on April 12, 2013, 05:31:05 AM

The atrocities she did were real, not imaginary, and she did MUCH more than just pose for pics.

Since you post that, I challenge you to spell out exactly what those atrocities were, and provide citation for them. I don't think you'll be able to do it.

Quote

The POWs she betrayed? Some died because of her betrayal!

provide details, names, and citations/links. I'll look forward to reading them.

Spirithawk · « **Reply #52 on:** April 12, 2013, 06:31:33 PM »

I'll not post names for you to ridicule no more than I'd give anyone else info about you were I to know it. The one man I'm 100% sure of suffered enough! When a man is dying and tells me something he wants me to know I believe him. He said he was there, saw it first hand, and was tortured as a result. I saw his scars and a VA doctor confirmed it to me. You weren't there and base your opinion on, as I said, something you've read or didn't read and by there I mean in the prison camp. If my believing him, and others I've talked to, bothers you well that is your problem not mine and I'm not about to let you make it my problem. You believe what you wish, if you wish, I'll do the same.

vabeachman · « **Reply #53 on:** April 12, 2013, 07:27:20 PM »

I guess according to YT that Hanoi Jane didn't call the returning POWs war criminals and hypocrites. She denied that they tortured and starved. I guess that didn't happen either.

Oldshooter · « **Reply #54 on:** April 12, 2013, 07:35:59 PM »

“I would think that, if you understood what communism was, you would hope, you would pray on your knees that we would become communist.”
~Jane Fonda Michigan State University 1970 <------------

Explains why she went to Hanoi, and why she did what she did. You can protest the war right here! You can use your fame and celebrity to promote your political ideas here in this country. If you give aid and comfort to the enemy of your country by going there and doing photo ops you are a traitor, Treason is not explained away. No spin for that.

I know three men that went to vietnam that I see every week. Well only two are alive today. One died last week with complications of injuries he recieved in Vietnam. Another has burn scars on his body and fingers missing that he lost. The third of that group limps and waddles around. They may have forgiven her because of their faith. They have never forgotten what she did. We speak ocassionally about the war and what happened to them, they know I did not approve of the War. And they accept that, funny thing is they didn't either, They were drafted, I wasn't. If you serve your country in the military you should be praised and respected. If you are guilty of treason you should be shunned, ridiculed and forgotten.

ChungDoQuan · « **Reply #55 on:** April 12, 2013, 07:45:47 PM »

From the official US Statistics about the ending years of the Vietnam War, deaths from all causes by year, starting with 1972, when Jane Fonda made her notorious trip:

1972 759
1973 68
1974 1
1975 62

So, in reality, it was not "thousands." Like I said, her trip had very little historical significance. I'm not belittling these deaths in any way. I'm just saying that such rancor would be better directed towards the military industrial complex capitalists that pushed the government into the war in the first place.

Oldshooter · « **Reply #56 on:** April 12, 2013, 07:50:13 PM »

Quote

Treason is not explained away. No spin for that.

Quote

If you are guilty of treason you should be shunned, ridiculed and forgotten.

williamlayton · « **Reply #57 on:** April 13, 2013, 12:31:47 AM »

Jane and a lot of folks here hated the war and have been trying to find a blame for their hurt for years.
It was not jane and jane is wrong when she says it was the GI.
The government is thhe culprit--it and the MIC---those who had no clue, careing or involvement in that day to day ordeals.
Folks it was the government.
You want to place blame and die hateing---point at that correct spot.
PS----it is not any better today.
Blessings

DDZ · « **Reply #58 on:** April 13, 2013, 01:29:15 AM »

Quote from: williamlayton on April 13, 2013, 12:31:47 AM

PS----it is not any better today.
Blessings

You are right, things are not better today. At least we have no know American going over and carousing with Al Qaeda, talking down on America, and calling ex POW's liars, careerists, and professional killers.

yellowtail3 · « **Reply #59 on:** April 13, 2013, 02:07:14 AM »

Quote from: vabeachman on April 12, 2013, 07:27:20 PM

I guess according to YT that Hanoi Jane didn't call the returning POWs war criminals and hypocrites. She denied that they tortured and starved. I guess that didn't happen either.

Your 'guessing' would make you wrong. Were you to change those guesses to assertions, that would make you a liar. Perhaps when addressing my posts you could stick to what is actually written? You'll be on safer ground, and I'll grant you the same courtesy.

Quote from: ChungDoQuan on April 12, 2013, 07:45:47 PM

From the official US Statistics about the ending years of the Vietnam War, deaths from all causes by year, starting with 1972, when Jane Fonda made her notorious trip:
[size=78%]1972 759[/size]
1973 68
1974 1
1975 62
So, in reality, it was not "thousands." Like I said, her trip had very little historical significance. I'm not belittling these deaths in any way. I'm just saying that such rancor would be better directed towards the military industrial complex capitalists that pushed the government into the war in the first place.

CDQ has just waged in with some facts. Imagine that. Won't make a dent, probably.

Quote from: williamlayton on April 13, 2013, 12:31:47 AM

Jane and a lot of folks here hated the war and have been trying to find a blame for their hurt for years.

I think most of the trying to find a blame for their hurt is coming from the Jane Haters, who can't let go of defeat and want someone to blame besides the leadership of their country.