Author Topic: What the crap?  (Read 1728 times)

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Offline scratchmark

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What the crap?
« on: April 11, 2013, 11:49:26 PM »
ok, i have always been loyal to my handi's , but went into Academy sports last night and was shocked at what i found. They had a few handi's in pallet wood for $279.99 and one survivor at $299.99. Now right next to them were the CVA hunters at$199.99 in 7mm-08 and 243 and the Elite stalkers for $209.99 in 22-250, 7mm-08 and 308. These things felt really good, solid and tight fit and the stocks, even though synthetic, looked great. The elites even seem to have an "encore" type look and feel to them. All the handis, minus the survivor, had the new pallet wood which looked rather bland. The handi calibers were 7mm-08, 45-70 and 500s&w. If i had no clue and was to just walk in the store looking for something cheap yet dependable, i sure wouldnt look at the handis. H&R has really got to take a look at the genre in which these guns are in and look at the competition thats developing and give customers a reason to pay the extra for their products  like different calibers or bonus options that you wouldnt find in lower end guns. just my 2cts worth.
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Offline Flashole

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Re: What the crap?
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2013, 12:35:13 AM »
CVA's are cheaper at Academy than any other place.  Sounds like there was a deal made between the two.  If you look at CVA's website those guns do not appear any more.  I'm not 100% sure but I think they have dropped the Stalker/ Hunter line and the lower end gun will be a new Scout and I would bet it is going to cost much more than the old line up.   
=FLASH=

Offline scratchmark

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Re: What the crap?
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2013, 03:27:30 AM »
that could be. that stalker in 708 had a 24in barrel and was nice.
If the women don't find ya handsome, they should atleast find ya handi

Offline Ranger99

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Re: What the crap?
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2013, 08:16:55 AM »
academy did/does have some cva rifles
made special for them to sell at lowball
18 MINUTES.  . . . . . .

Offline bucco921

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Re: What the crap?
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2013, 11:12:11 AM »
Remington still needs to take a look at pricing. The handies at a local gander mtn were 299 for pw, 309 for syn, and 400 for the syn scoped guns. Pretty ridiculous.

Offline blind ear

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Re: What the crap?
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2013, 11:14:51 AM »
I would imagine that we have done more to creat our own monster than anyone else, on priceing that is. ear
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Offline revbc

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Re: What the crap?
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2013, 12:01:47 PM »
I bought a like new 7mm-08 stalker from someone on the forum here.  I can tell you from experience, that the finish and fit of the gun was nice.  However, it was real heavy, heavier than a handi and the trigger was terrible.  Shot it a few times............sold it.

That was my CVA stalker experience.  They wouldn't compete with the handi with me, even though some folks love'em.  They do have good barrels and shoot reasonably well.
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Offline Spanky

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Re: What the crap?
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2013, 12:19:46 PM »
I would imagine that we have done more to creat our own monster than anyone else, on priceing that is. ear

 
The fact that idiots are paying $300 bucks for barrels on ebay doesn't help either. :-\
 
 
 
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Offline Doublebass73

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Re: What the crap?
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2013, 12:46:07 PM »
I was going to special order a 20 gauge pardner turkey for my son from Walmart recently until I heard the price - $230 :o

I told them to keep it and bought a nice used Savage 94C in 16 gauge for $80 at a local gun store.
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Offline cjrjck

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Re: What the crap?
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2013, 02:42:28 PM »
It's called inflation and H&R is not immune. The Handi Rifle is still half the price of an Encore. Best deal out there for the money if you want a new U.S. made single shot.

Offline Spanky

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Re: What the crap?
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2013, 03:11:55 PM »
I don't buy into the inflation bit.
Take a look at a Handi from 25 years ago and look at a brand new one. Yup... same thing. Do you think it's costing that much more to produce them now? I doubt it.
 
I could understand the increased pricing if they actually made some changes/improvements to the lineup like the rest of the manufacturers are doing but they're not. Big Green is perfectly content to turn out the same old stuff and just keep jacking up the prices.
 
 I went into my local gun shop the other day and he had some new Pardners on the shelf for $189. :o  That's $60 bucks more than they were going for 2 years ago... and it's exactly the same... no difference at all. Do you think inflation has gone up so much as to raise the price $60 bucks in 2 years? Again... I doubt it.
 
 
 
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Offline Ten Ring

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Re: What the crap?
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2013, 03:20:13 PM »
Don't take this wrong I love my Handi's but two guys at camp bought CVA 35Whelen's  and they will shoot circles around the Handis that we have at camp shooting factory ammo.
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Offline bucco921

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Re: What the crap?
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2013, 03:26:13 PM »
Agreed spanky. They are pricing themselves out of the market. I believe trotterleg and jeepman both had threads awhile back about this. 99% of the people who walk into gander, academy,cabelas, walmart etc, dont know or care the differences between h&r, rossi, cva. The masses still think of any single shot not named ruger or tc as cheap beginners guns, back up guns, plinkers etc. I love my handi's but to me a plain pw handi is a 250$ gun, period. Remington has cut all the "cool" calibers, did away with the versa pak and hasnt "improved" anything in years. They dont advertise the product line at all. I see tons of youngsters every year whose first gun is a rossi 22\410 combo they got for about 150$-180$. Why on earth they cut the vp line is beyond me. With the cheap bolt guns and the competitions better pricing on single shots the future doesnt look good. Thats just my .02 cents. I hope Im wrong.

Offline PineyCreek22

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Re: What the crap?
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2013, 04:51:02 PM »
Well guys I hate to bust your bubble but CVA's are made in Spain and Rossi's I believe are made in Italy, both socialistic countries.  The Freedom Group that owns Remington does what corporate America does best, make money.  Handi Rifles are a small niche market so why expand?  That costs money.  Continue to increase price until demand meets cuts in production.  This  increases profits.  This is the American way.  I prefer to support american labor and the capitalistic model, if you want to send your money to the European Common Market knock yourself out.  Oh, and if you don't believe in inflation go grocery shopping with your wife.  Regards Piney Creek
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Offline tacklebury

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Re: What the crap?
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2013, 05:01:47 PM »
Rossi's are made in South America and are owned and made on the same lines as Taurus.  I personally dislike the feel of TC's to begin with.  I hate shooting contenders, with the little point hanging down.  I just plain fit the H&R and will continue to love mine.  ;)
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Offline bucco921

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Re: What the crap?
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2013, 05:06:14 PM »
You are missing my point. I am aware where the other companies are from. I also believe the handi to be the superior product. That being said 99% of the people walking into the chain stores previously mentioned don't know nor care about any of that.

Offline whetrock

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Re: What the crap?
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2013, 06:21:17 PM »
The recent advancements in manufacturing have allowed for firearms companies to put out, economy grade bolt action rifles that will shoot MOA or close to it out of the box, these types of rifles are all the norm at the big box store, which cater heavily towards hunters and outdoorsman, and wind up marketing them to the entry level types, and they will wind up sufficing for many years to come. If you only had 350 dollars to spend, and were a novice, don't you think you'd opt for a Economy Bolt gun, instead of an old, obsolete looking single shot rifle ? I feel like the one of the driving forces behind the Handi for me is the really nifty, old school, rimmed cartridges, and I'd be more apt to purchase more Handis in the future if they were offered in more of these cartridges, though they dropped the 38-55 BC, as well as the 45LC BC. Those were the Bee's Knee's to me, however to some Deer hunter looking to purchase his first rifle, wouldn't have one. And would instead rather own a plastic Bolt action in a familiar cartridge, like a .270 or 30-06. The Handi is already finding its way into the Niche, that lends itself friendly to hand loading, so why not try and market the Handi towards us by offering some chamberings a bit different from the norm.

Offline trotterlg

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Re: What the crap?
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2013, 07:36:26 PM »
I was in Cabellas today and they had all the Savage Axias you could want for $259.00.  Handi needs to look at their price point to say alive I think.  Handi's are fun, but a  real bolt gun for the same price and I know what I am going to get.  Larry
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Offline petemi

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Re: What the crap?
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2013, 11:17:35 PM »
I'm not enamored by bolt guns.  The only place I'd need a second or more fast shot would be at home against two legged predators and I have wheel guns and short, lighted  pump shotguns for that prospect.

I too love the fit, handling and looks of the Handi.  Furthermore, I am dedicated to sending as few U.S. Dollars overseas as possible.  I too would like to see a wider selection of calibers available.  They could bring back some of the discontinued stuff at moderate cost because I'm sure the tooling is still on a shelf somewhere. 

Many of us own Handis in calibers never dreamed of by NEF, H&R or Remington.  That's a large part of the Handi joy.  I may be a fool, but I'll stick with Handis all the way.  I don't see anyone weighing the cost of a Ruger #1 or a T/C against a bolt gun, and I'll take a Hanid over either any day.  It hasn't been proven to me that they shoot any better, I don't like the feel of them, and I can own two or three Handis for the price of either.

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Offline Spanky

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Re: What the crap?
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2013, 04:42:30 AM »
I love my Handi's too. I just think they're too expensive nowadays.
 
 
 
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Offline twoshooter

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Re: What the crap?
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2013, 05:04:03 AM »
I like the idea of handis also, especially the fact of the calibers they come in and the ease of rechambering etc. BUT, if I could have picked up a Stevens 200 in a 300 AAC for $259 I would have bought one. Handis ARE now overpriced, but that is the market. Also, the capitalism crap- MONEY know no allegiance, the same fat cats own EVERYTHING. Romney owns factories in China. Unless we can reverse globalization, forget it. It is like trying to dam a stream with screen wire. I hate it, but it makes it no less true.
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: What the crap?
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2013, 08:11:10 AM »
Spanky, it isnt that it 'costs' H&R (or whomever) so much more to make things. Inflation is caused by the devaluation of the currency by increasing the money supply (with no real value to back it up). The Treasury doubled the money supply and the Fed has been pumping it into the economy for years now through the QE programs and buying our own debt (just try that at home).
If you double the money supply and get it into circulation,
You devalue all the currency in circulation by half.
As for prices on anything, we ain't seen nothing yet.
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Offline jon f

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Re: What the crap?
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2013, 11:31:58 AM »
PineyCreek22 really understands how the market works. If you truly love Handi's, buy new ones from dealers.
 
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Offline redleg11b

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Re: What the crap?
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2013, 05:35:51 PM »
Gander sells within $20 of MSRP, while Dick's, Walmart, and local shops are usually at least 10% cheaper.  I don't even walk into GM anymore.  It used to be a great place to find used jewels, but anymore an extra $5 can get a new firearm elsewhere.  It goes along the same lines of ammo pricing, some idiots are willing to pay, some are not because they already planned ahead.
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Offline max1138

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Re: What the crap?
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2013, 06:09:02 PM »
Hmm, I really like my scout in whelen, basically the same gun in 7/08 you say. always wanted one in that caliber maybe a trip to the store is in order.


Offline Ol BW

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Re: What the crap?
« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2013, 07:50:47 AM »
Decline in sales and therefore production, can drive up expense of production.  Cost are spread over fewer pieces rather than more pieces. 
Remington doesn't seem intent on selling more or better H&R products.

As for the mindset of the consumer, few people look at where anything is made anymore.  Second, many people have limited funds to make firearms purchases.  It is not that important to some. They either do without or they get the most for their money.  If someone wanted to buy a rifle for their child and try and keep them interested in shooting without buying several rifles (someone who may not have but one or two already,) would buy one rifle that can grow with the child and their interest.  With the advent of reduced recoil loads and premium projectiles, a "one gun fits most" situation is pretty close to a reality, especially if you include hand loading. 

Factor in that most kids are quickly bored and have higher standards than most of us had as a kid and the deck gets stacked against you pretty quick.

Therefore instead of starting with a 22 and a .410 and working up to a .357 or .44 and a 20ga. and ultimately to a high-powered rifle and a 12 ga., they start them out with a bolt action .243 or 270/30-06 with reduced loads.  Then they may not ever have to buy another gun.  Like it has been said before, most turn their nose up at a single shot that does not have T/C or Ruger on it.  If they do opt for a single shot, cheaper seems to rule the roost.

BW

Offline bucco921

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Re: What the crap?
« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2013, 01:03:44 PM »
Well said bw

Offline nanuk-O-dah-Nort

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Re: What the crap?
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2013, 04:14:45 PM »
I can't understand why anyone would even consider a bolt gun, when you can get a SingleShot Handi for a similar price!

just makes no sense!