Problem with first muzzle loader; what did I do wrong?

[strangefire]

For years and years I always wanted a side lock muzzle loader and I finally picked one up cheap. It's a Traditions buckskinner. It came with everything needed to shoot and the buy at the gun store said the gun is ready to shoot, go home and have some fun.
       So that day I loaded up 60 grains of Pyrodex rs, patch and round ball, added a #11 cap and pulled the trigger and pop, Nothing happen. The pop was the cap. I added another cap and again just a pop.
       I removed the nipple and cleaned it, another cap and another pop. What am I doing wrong? How can I fix it. Sure I have some ideas but I should asked you guys first!!
        Now I wish I asked you guys how to inspect it before I try to even load it and shoot it. Help!!

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

no powder under the nipple it sounds like.

When you put powder down the bore, turn the gun lockside down towards the ground and give the opposite side of the lock a few good wacks to help shift the powder under the nipple. Carefully turn the gun back over and the butt plate on your foot and push the projectile down the bore.

[Empty Quiver]

The bore needs to be good and dry before you start loading. It has always been my practice to pop a couple caps before loading just to dry things out.


At this point I would take out the nipple and make sure it is clear. If so try a few more caps. I'm pretty sure there are dozens of safety rules broken, but I have stuffed powder in under the nipple a couple times in an effort to get a fire lit.


Be careful as you fool around don't get in front of the muzzle. Blackpowder can be smashed into ignition.

[Winter Hawk]

Always run a cleaning patch down the bore first to clean out oil.  Then put a cap on the nipple, hold the muzzle close to a blade of grass or leaf (in a safe direction) and pop the cap.  If the channel is clear you will see the blade of grass move with the blast of the cap.  Then go ahead and load.  In my experience I will give the butt a thump on the ground to settle powder into the drum before ramming down the ball.

If you haven't pulled the load yet, you might try removing the nipple and working some powder into the drum.  Just be careful to take a pick and clean any grains out of the threads before screwing the nipple back in.  If that doesn't shoot the load out you will need to read the threads on here on removing bullets.  Just make sure the muzzle is pointed in a safe direction and you have no body parts over the muzzle at any time!

Let us know how you make out....

-Kees-

[tacklebury]

Might wanna pick yourself up one of these.    If you bought regular #11's I'd recommend getting some magnum #11's.  I personally get the best performance from Remington Magnum #11 Caps.    Most likely you have a pool of tar from oil just ahead of the flash hole.  CO2 unloaders are really great for recovering your ball/bullet and powder if you don't end up shooting when out hunting. 

[GEMSTATE]

Pyrodex and cold weather don't mix. Try magnum caps if you can find them and your problem should go away.

[Ranger99]

if it's still stuck at this writing, find
someone that will front you about a
teaspoon or half of real 3F blackpowder,
and take it with you where you are shooting
and remove the nipple and work some of
that black through the flash channel as
posted before. use a wooden toothpick
and finesse. carefully re-install nipple
and cap and fire. make sure channel of
nipple is clean also. should go first time
with the black.


be safe
good luck

[strangefire]

I pulled the RB out and the powder is oily, so much so that the powder will not dump out and I'm sure the oil on the patch isn't helping much. I will clean it out and shoot a few caps and try reloading again. After the nipple is removed can I blow air into the barrel from the nipple side to clean it out or will shooting the caps be good enough?
           Thanks for all your help, Chris

[necchi]

Ok, what you really need to do is clean it, and in a proper way.
This is what your breech area looks like,
 

 
The area mark with "D" is a problem area with these types of rifle.
 
You'll need a "cleaning jag" to hold a patch inside the barrel. It'll screw into the end of your rod, I'll let you look for one, they are caliber specific and available all over the place.
 
* Get a bucket, an ice cream pail will work. And find the dish soap.
* Remove the barrel from the stock.
* Remove the nipple and clean out screw from the "Drum"
 
*Put Luke warm water in the bucket and a squirt of Dish Soap (I use Dawn),
Submerge the breech end of the barrel in the soapy water, now place a wet cleaning patch on the jag and slide the rod/jag/patch down the barrel while the breech is submerged.
Begin moving the rod up and down in a pumping motion,, this will draw the water and detergent up into the barrel through the open holes in the breech and force it back out with each stroke.
Change the patch a few times and continue until the patch looks clean.
Rinse the barrel with fresh warm water and dry it completely with a few more patches.
 
You gotta get that breech clean of all oils and debris, it can be tough with a second hand gun because you don't know how the last guy cared for it.
 
If it was fired right out of the box without cleaning the factory packing grease from the barrel that breech can be plugged with some nasty fouling. If that's the case,, repeat the above process with Gasoline!!
 
Any Questions?
 
 

[hillbill]

Ok, what you really need to do is clean it, and in a proper way.
This is what your breech area looks like,
 

 
The area mark with "D" is a problem area with these types of rifle.
 
You'll need a "cleaning jag" to hold a patch inside the barrel. It'll screw into the end of your rod, I'll let you look for one, they are caliber specific and available all over the place.
 
* Get a bucket, an ice cream pail will work. And find the dish soap.
* Remove the barrel from the stock.
* Remove the nipple and clean out screw from the "Drum"
 
*Put Luke warm water in the bucket and a squirt of Dish Soap (I use Dawn),
Submerge the breech end of the barrel in the soapy water, now place a wet cleaning patch on the jag and slide the rod/jag/patch down the barrel while the breech is submerged.
Begin moving the rod up and down in a pumping motion,, this will draw the water and detergent up into the barrel through the open holes in the breech and force it back out with each stroke.
Change the patch a few times and continue until the patch looks clean.
Rinse the barrel with fresh warm water and dry it completely with a few more patches.
 
You gotta get that breech clean of all oils and debris, it can be tough with a second hand gun because you don't know how the last guy cared for it.
 
If it was fired right out of the box without cleaning the factory packing grease from the barrel that breech can be plugged with some nasty fouling. If that's the case,, repeat the above process with Gasoline!!
 
Any Questions?

yup exactly what he said! always start with a clean dry barrel.a clean nipple. and i like to use a nipple pick between shots, a piece of guitar string works well. there is a learning curve to shooting a muzzy gun. yull get the hang of it.

[strangefire]

Thanks Guys!! I knew nothing about muzzle loading but I'm learning quick.
     OK, I found a cleaning jag in my kit and later tonight I will remove the barrel and give her a good bath.
I've been a civil war buff and always wanted a muzzle loader since I saw the movie "Shenandoah" with James Stewart when I was about 8 years old but got hooked on the AR15 AK47 guns first so now I'm doing muzzle loading.
                Thanks again, Chris

[strangefire]

Well, I did everything necchi said to do and it worked. The barrel was dirty and oily. After the barrel was dry and the patches came out clean I sprayed some Remington oil on a patch, ran it down the barrel and it came out dirty, way dirty so I did the hot soapy water method again and the oil patch came out clean. 60 grains of RS and it fired and then 90 grains of RS again and it fired so now I'm getting the feel of this new shoooting sport I found and I like it.
                               Thanks guys for all your help!!! Chris

[hillbill]

once you get the hang of cleaning it with hot soapy water, you should be able to do it in about 10 minutes or so.i usually let the gun sit apart after cleaning and oiling and put it back together the next day.as i shoot mostly in the winter ill lean the barrel up near the wood stove for the night.

[lakota]

I have got into the habit of running a patch soaked with 91% rubbing alcohol through the bore to cut some of the oil before I go shooting. The alcohol drys pretty fast and it has been working for me.

[Empty Quiver]

Well, I did everything necchi said to do and it worked. The barrel was dirty and oily. After the barrel was dry and the patches came out clean I sprayed some Remington oil on a patch, ran it down the barrel and it came out dirty, way dirty so I did the hot soapy water method again and the oil patch came out clean. 60 grains of RS and it fired and then 90 grains of RS again and it fired so now I'm getting the feel of this new shoooting sport I found and I like it.
                               Thanks guys for all your help!!! Chris

You might want to rethink the petroleum based oils for BP. Animal fats will allow the barrel to season and makes the fouling come out easier. I don't understand it all. Might be an old wives tale, or maybe just applicable with genuine black powder.


Someone more knowledgeable should come by right away and set the matter straight.

[necchi]

Your right, "Seasoning" the bore is a myth, I won't get into detail but baking on a coating to a rifle bore is a bad idea. You need it clean to bare metal every time.
 
Your right about caution with petroleum oils and BP.
Now before folks get wild, gun oil or another petro based oil for metal protection is good, but all the oil needs to be removed before shooting BP or any of the sub's. The powder combustion byproducts and the heat from firing the round combine with any remaining "oil" and create a nasty fouling that's very much like asphalt pavement,, aka: tar.
That stuff will quickly foul the bore and fire channel and cause all kinds of trouble.
But usually a few dry patches and/or Rubbing alcohol or Denatured alcohol soaked patches will remove any storage oils and your good to go

[hillbill]

I have got into the habit of running a patch soaked with 91% rubbing alcohol through the bore to cut some of the oil before I go shooting. The alcohol drys pretty fast and it has been working for me.

yup or you can use a patch sprayed with starting fluid, it evaporates well too and degreases.i always have a can or two around the shop.

[AtlLaw]

yup, what necchi said.