Author Topic: Thoughts on 30-30 bullets (Read 1867 times)

44 Man · « **on:** April 13, 2013, 02:34:52 AM »

Just kicking some thoughts out here for your input. My old Topper 30-30 just loves the lighter bullet wt's. She will shoot under an inch with Sierra Pro Hunter 125's and also with Hornady 130 pointed bullets. I've had a lot of fun shooting those through her but I've never put one of these into a deer yet. And I do have some concerns about their performance at 30-30 velocities. I'm thinking very hard about trying some of the Speer 130 gr spfn bullets because they are designed to perform at 30-30 velocities. They also have a very small flat point so that is not a concern. Actually, after reading Mike Ventrino's bench tests between pointed and round nose bullets in the 30-06, I'm not really concerned about the flat point. His tests showed at 300 yds (well beyond what I would ever shoot a 30-30) that there was only 2" drop difference between them.
So the point being; will the pointed bullet preform as well as a flat nose in flesh at 30-30 velocities and distances. My Topper puts out the Sierra's at 2520 fps over 36 gr of H4895. So the bottom line is can I load pointed, such as the Rem soft point 150 gr core loc's instead of 150 fp bullets and get the same results striking a deer in the chest at 100 yds? Of course that applies to my favored 125 and 130's. I use the Remington core loc for an illustration because it has worked for me for years in many calibers but of course I have never used it in a 30-30. (I did load some for a friend in his 30-30 AI once but never heard back how they worked.
What think you? Does anyone out there have real hunting experience from using pointed bullets in the 30-30? (Hey, the Nosler ballistic tip doesn't count, I know what that will do, I'm talking non premium soft point bullets) 44 Man

kynardsj · « **Reply #1 on:** April 13, 2013, 02:55:46 AM »

OK. so the successes I had with 125 gr Nosler BT's in my 30-30 Contender doesn't count. I guess I'll have to say I had great success with Sierra Pro Hunter bullets too. The 125 gr spire point and although it's not a pointed bullet, the 125 gr HP bullet worked great too. Accuracy was the same with the spire point and the hollow point.

44 Man · « **Reply #2 on:** April 13, 2013, 03:06:42 AM »

Kynardsj, you know what I meant. I could load them all up with 125 gr NBT's and have great success I'm sure, but I'd also like some money left for powder.

Thanks for the input, that exactally what I'm looking for, some real experiences! 44 Man

cjrjck · « **Reply #3 on:** April 13, 2013, 04:04:41 AM »

I have two Topper and one standard Handi 30-30 rifles. The Toppers shoot the Barnes 150 FP TSX. Both shoot well, one is really accurate. This is the best bullet I have seen for the 30-30. About 2150 fps. The wide hollow point always opens but it will penetrate clean through most deer and hogs. The Handi is loaded with the Barnes 130 grain TTSX. The streamlined pointed tipped bullet. I get close to 2500 fps with it and the results are Barnes-like. If you are looking for terminal performance on big game with the 30-30, these somewhat expensive bullets cannot be beat. FYI- I get better accuracy seating these bullets out to just shy of the lands. Way out there. They would not cycle through a lever action.

jpshaw · « **Reply #4 on:** April 13, 2013, 04:29:21 AM »

Haven't shot the lighter ones yet but I've been using pointed (spirepoint) bullets in my Handi since I've had it. At the moment I'm loading 150 grain Speer Hot-Core behind a healthy dose of RE15. Getting a bit over 2400 fps with it. Killed a half an eight point (right antler gone) with it at 200 yds this year. That bullet had to have slowed down a bit but it still had a good exit hole so it expanded quite well.

kynardsj · « **Reply #5 on:** April 13, 2013, 04:29:44 AM »

Occasionally, and the way things are now, very rarely, you can check with Nosler and buy the ballistic tip seconds. The color may be a shade or two off on the green tip 30 caliber bullets but they shoot just as good. Price has a pretty good discount on it. Maybe later when the panic buying calms down, if it does.

cjrjck · « **Reply #6 on:** April 13, 2013, 06:23:59 AM »

The difference in price between the Sierra 125 and the Nosler 125 BT is about 13 cents a bullet. You would have to shoot a lot to notice that in the wallet, wouldn't you?

Couger · « **Reply #7 on:** April 13, 2013, 06:41:49 AM »

No 'real experience' here. But I'm intriqued now.

Those 130 grain Speer .30-30 bullets are what I'd gravitate to, first. I have loaded those for my dad, but neither he or I killed anything with them.

The mention about the 125-BT's indicates those bullets (BT's have always questionable in my experience , for their "explosiveness") are still too 'soft' for deer at higher velocities, but maybe not [lower] handgun velocities?

Is there enough data about the Core-Lokt's and Hornady cup-n-core's
to predict what they would do at 2200fps? 2300fps? 2400fps? 2500fps?

Exactly where does the 'threshhold' exist for those bullets at WHAT velocity? 'Threshhold' is what I'm calling that line where a bullet performs in the classic expansion and mushrooms (even explosively with some bullet designs) going through a deer, or failing to expand adequately if at all?

If I was trying to figure out what you're asking 44Man, I frequently make an Excell spreadsheet, and then peruse MidwayUSA's sight, doing a search for .308 bullets.

If you did such a search, you could narrow possibilities by looking
at bullets less than 150 grains, and then by brand.

On my spreadsheet I would record ballisitc coef, sectional density, as well as grain-weight, profile-type as well as description. I make and use my spreadsheets to help me visualize and compare what I'm looking at. (I'm often comparing cartridges that way, sometimes bullets, molds, even wildcat rounds when I'm checking out my latest question about silly idea I'm running down).

rdlange · « **Reply #8 on:** April 13, 2013, 06:58:01 AM »

I've been having the same thoughts for my old Topper also. Lighter bullets give flatter trajectory, and longer range, with the POI impacts closer together at different ranges. Less guess work for me.

I have shot some of the 125 gr HP with Reloader 7 which grouped well in the winter. Reloader 7 was erratic in the summer TX heat, but haven't done a new load yet.

I am told the Nosler 125 BT work well in the 30 Herrett. They are a thinner jacketed bullet and open up at the lower velocities. So they would seem to be suited to 30-30.

Maybe I'm wrong but the lighter bullets seem to recoil less. I also like that. Does that mean they put less strain on the gun?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #9 on:** April 13, 2013, 07:27:53 AM »

Hornady lists the min and max muzzle velocity range for all of their bullets in the bullet guide in their manual. The 130gr SP is 2500-3700, the 150gr SP Interlock is 2700-3600 as are most of the other 150gr pointys, the 150gr RN interlock 30-30 bullet is 1800-2500. The 160gr FTX(30-30) is 1800-2600 and the 160gr FTX(308MX) is 2000-2800.

Tim

kynardsj · « **Reply #10 on:** April 13, 2013, 07:59:51 AM »

Couger, the experience I've had with Nosler BT's is they were great in a 30-30. I put the same 125's in a 308 and the destruction of the meat on the deer I shot was just too much. Somewhat slower is better with them in my opinion.

BBF · « **Reply #11 on:** April 13, 2013, 09:09:55 AM »

I presume Rem loads their 150 gr. CorLokt for the 300 Savage. Somewhere around the 200 yard line that bullet will be at 2000 ft/sec and still expand in a deer. I see no reason why the same bullet out of a 30-30 isn't good at 100 yards or more.

44 Man · « **Reply #12 on:** April 13, 2013, 01:45:00 PM »

Thanks guys! Great info! Quick, you had better luck with Hornady than I had. I called them and told them I was loading the spire point 130's in the 30-30 and I asked what velocities they were designed to perform at. What I got on the other end of the phone was 'Huh? You shouldn't load those in 30-30, they are pointed.' I said I know but it's for a single shot. I still only got that I shouldn't load it in the 30-30 but no performance velocity peramiters at all. Sierra had no real information that they could tell me just that the Pro Hunter bullet was designed for 30-06 and the like. Remington was even worse. I called the bullet factory itself and talked to the factory ammo design engineers and they just told me they had no idea what velocities the core locs would preform at.
Anyway it sounds like I should keep the Hornadys for target shooting as I'm too close to the bottom velocity number to count on them opening up. The Pro Hunter 125's seem to be a proven deal and ok. Of course the NBT is the sweetheart with velocities listed on the website and good for 30-06 and 30-30 velocities both.
Thanks guys, I love a good discussion. 44 Man

quickdtoo · « **Reply #13 on:** April 13, 2013, 01:51:41 PM »

Sierra lists their 125gr and 150gr bullets in their 10" and 14" 30-30 TC pistol data, so they should be good to go at rifle velocities easily, they have specific recommended hunting loads for them anyway.

I know the 125gr PH SPT is good at higher velocities cuz a friend has taken a few muleys with them in his 308Win, and they shoot excellent in my 30-30AI Handi.

Tim

hoytcanon · « **Reply #14 on:** April 13, 2013, 02:31:42 PM »

Can't really help if you don't want to hear about the NBT 150's... other than 160 RN Hard Cast reduced loads, they are all I shoot from my Handi .30/30's.

Couger · « **Reply #15 on:** April 13, 2013, 09:27:44 PM »

Quote from: kynardsj

Couger, the experience I've had with Nosler BT's is they were great in a 30-30. I put the same 125's in a 308 and the destruction of the meat on the deer I shot was just too much. Somewhat slower is better with them in my opinion.

Krud! Only whitetail I've ever killed was a button buck at 50-60 yards, with 165 grain Ballisitc Tips from Black Hills .308 ammo. Bang flop, right through the heart.

Usually I take lung shots and expect my deer to run a few yards.

Velocity was rated at @2650fps if memory serves. Bloodshot was indeed excessive!

Small deer to start with, then at least 5# of ruined meat.
What I did wrap up and freeze tasted GOOOOOD!

Couger · « **Reply #16 on:** April 13, 2013, 09:44:33 PM »

44 Man, what about shooting *lead cast* boolits in your gun?

Like some of the various boolits for the .30 Carbine if lighter boolits are called for?

Plus Saeco offers .30-30 molds for 140 and 160 grain,
that resemble the Lyman/Ideal 311041 boolit.

Also, "some day ..... "

I hope to use some 150 grain boolits I have an Ideal mold (311466), that will have an almost completely flat nose (soup can) shape.

with up to 2400fps I've wondered how well any of those lead boolits would slay the venison?
Without destroying too much meat?

petemi · « **Reply #17 on:** April 13, 2013, 11:56:34 PM »

I can't help you any with this one Lewis. I shoot 168 NBTs in the Handi and 150 RNFPs in the Marlin. When I want smaller I go to the 7mm or the .243.

Pete

twoshooter · « **Reply #18 on:** April 14, 2013, 06:17:03 AM »

I can tell you from experience that using the bulk Rem 125 gr or WW Bulk 125 gr that at any normal range (150 yards or so ) they work just fine on deer sized game. They were created as more of a Varmint bullet for 30/06 and 308 sized capacity, and at 30/30 velocities they just expand instead of explode. Problem is finding any these days- good luck with that.

tacklebury · « **Reply #19 on:** April 14, 2013, 10:58:38 AM »

Although I haven't had a chance to shoot a deer with it, I'm loading Sierra GameKing 150 gr. Spire Point bullets in my .30-30 loads. I don't have a levergun, anyway, so I figured I'd try them. Seem very accurate thus far and the improved BC, according to JBM Ballistics, really keeps it viable for up to 200 yards out.

bilmac · « **Reply #20 on:** April 14, 2013, 12:15:50 PM »

I shot Hornaday 130s in a 30-30 Contender years ago. I can't remember a lot of the details but I remember I killed a couple of antelope with them no problem. I shoot the Speer 130FP from a Marlin and have killed a few doe deer. I like them.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #21 on:** April 15, 2013, 04:55:17 AM »

Couger, you wont get those kind of velocities out of cast bullets (and trying to is why a bunch of guys have 'given up' on cast bullets through the years; you cant just substitute casts for jacketed and have quick success) without some experience in casting and advanced techniques. In fact, with the average casting alloy, to get more than 1400ish fps you will likely need some kind of gas check and/or harder alloys that then tend to perforate rather than expand.
However, a softish lead alloy of the right dia. at moderate velo will take game, always has, always will, if you put it where the critter lives.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #22 on:** April 16, 2013, 12:02:34 AM »

I tried the 125 Nosler's when I bought a Contender in 30-30. I shot a couple deer with its reduced velocity and it worked... I was unimpressed so I bought a 357 Herrett. MUCH improved, umph! But then I began to see bullets come apart... My Speer 140HP's I liked from my 8'' Colt, where little bombs at 2100 fps!

I never lost a deer to that bullet, but the 158SP form Remington was better. Then the 180's began to be offered and those where better. When Hornady introduced the XTP line and specfically the 158FP I was set! In the early 1980's, reliable ignition (Head Space issues) urged me to the 357 Maxi.. The rest most of you guys know... I digress...

The 30-30 in that contender was sold off and I stuck with it in my Marlins and H&R. The Hornady 170 FP has accounted for many deer thru the years always with stellar preformance. My load has been the same since I can remember... WW748 (Somewhat above book) and a LR primer and that Hornady 170g bullet. It works in the 16'' Marauder and the 22'' H&R just fine... When the FTX was offered, I bought a box and was pleased to see the same loading of 748 produced better accuracy! BUT its a bit fragile for my likes... the couple deer I shot with it ran a bit as it did not carry the weight to the spind to anchor them. BUT none where lost and I think if you needed to push the range and shoot the lungs, you may find a good bullet in a max loaded FTX.

I see no need for a Nosler Partition or ''premium'' bullet in this caliber. Its ''numbers'' simply do not exceed what a properly sized cup and core bullet can provide.

CW

Lonegun1894 · « **Reply #23 on:** April 16, 2013, 03:36:54 AM »

I will have to disagree with the post saying that those velocities are a problem with cast. I get 2350fps with a 150gr cast gas checked bullet I cast myself out of my Marlin 336 and 2200fps with a 170gr cast gaschecked bullet out of the same rifle. The 150gr gives me 2.5" at 100yds and 6" at 200yds, while the 170gr gives 1.5" at 100 and 5" at 200yds. I have taken both deer and hogs with both loads and both worked as well or better than any jacketed i have tried. Now this took some experimenting so it wasn't just a matter of replacing the jacketed with the first cast I got my hands on, but once I got the right recipe figured out, I have a very accurate bullet that expands reliably and stays together, while being dirt cheap to allow lots of practice. And this is out of a Marlin which has the micro-groove rifling which many claim will not shoot with cast bullets. So if this rifle which is, at least according to many, notoriously inaccurate with cast, imagine what a good cast load will do in one of these Handi's which are well known to be exceptional shooters, at least among this group.

bilmac · « **Reply #24 on:** April 16, 2013, 04:00:05 AM »

You might try a thread where the military guys lurk. The 7.62x39 is pretty much a ballistic twin to the 30-30, but it has always been a light bullet shooter while 30-30 shooters have been married to heavies.

petemi · « **Reply #25 on:** April 16, 2013, 05:36:57 AM »

Fifty some odd years ago, when I bought my Marlin 336 .30-30, there were a bunch of old timers in the shop BS-ing. When the deal came down to the ammo, they all agreed......Winchester 170 gr. Silvertip. I took their advice, and have stayed with that ammo until I started reloading. It never let me down. The lightest I've ever shot are 150 gr., but never tried them on deer. The first deer I shot with that rifle and the 170s was a big doe at 225 yards on a control permit. It was known distance between two fence lines I guessed the holdover shooting down hill, and God only knows, why at age 17, I guessed correctly. She went 20 yards and was dead when I got there. Complete pass through.

What I'm trying to say is let the old Thirty Thirty do what she's done well for over 100 years and leave the long shots to your 7mm-08, etc. That's why you own them

Pete

S8Raz · « **Reply #26 on:** April 22, 2013, 02:09:53 PM »

FWIW, my recent vintage 30-30 barrel with its Marlin-esque rifling ('12) tends to like standard 150fp's. I was playing with Speer 130fp's ahead of 34gr of H4895 and they were so-so. (the load needed development and it was before I reworked the trigger) I also recently ran some 125BT's through it. It looks like the BT's are indeed accurate, but with a 10-11" higher poi vs Speer Hot-Cor 150s. Admittedly, the 125's were ahead of 34gr of 3031 vs 30.1 for the 150. The kids would say "no duh, Dad?".
I was trying to work up a "pocket load" for when a 'yote wandered through. I'm just not patient enough to work both loads against each other to get the poi's closer (and keep velocities/pressures in check), so I gave up on this "dual loading" approach. The coyotes will be just as DRT with a 150. (And, as you mention - the fp's are indeed cheaper).
The 150 fp's have been running 1.5" at 100yds and they're right in the 2100-ish fps range. I need more trigger time to shrink groups. They did work real well on my only deer last year though.
I also use the Hornady 170rn in my '06 Handi barrel and the 170fp Speer Deep Curl in my P17 as a Krag imitators. They run right at 2300fps.
Would like to hear your accuracy results w/the lighter BT's and SPs, but some terminal performance testing as well (?)

jbtazgrabber · « **Reply #27 on:** April 24, 2013, 02:41:06 PM »

wife hit a small buck using horady 130 grains with 3031 imr at under 50 yards followed blood for 150 yars and never found deer i was at work in another state was not able to help find. she wont use 30 30 ever again dont underestamate my wifes shooting she killed 5 deer last year,, i only 3 she aways hunted with a 44 handi to kill her deer in rifle season usally d.r.t..im going to try 30 30 this year ill load 150 hornady round nose hope this helps jb p.s. thats only deer she never found with a gun.....

Groo · « **Reply #28 on:** April 24, 2013, 03:57:08 PM »

Groo here
Except for the flat nose 30-30 bullets , 30 cal bullets are designed for much higher speeds.
JD Jones was fond of the Nosler solid base boat tail and the Partishion bullets as they were softer and would expand at TC speeds,
The bullets did not come apart either.
We had luck with the speer 30 cal 130gr hp as it would act more like a big game bullet when slowed down but from a 308 or 3006 would open varmet fast,
and stand up to magnum speeds till it hit and then "Puff of smoke-Pile of ashes"

Sourdough · « **Reply #29 on:** April 24, 2013, 04:11:10 PM »

Those flat nosed bullets are old technology. They were designed back when the 30-30 was slower than todays 30-30s. Plus the newer bullets can and will open up at slower velocities than the older bullets would. Bullets are designed to open at lower velocities due to people shooting at longer ranges now. Almost any polimer tipped bullet should work.