Author Topic: Which cast bullet? (Read 879 times)

bigjeepman · « **on:** February 20, 2004, 11:12:31 AM »

I have just recently started reloading .45lc for my Vaquero and my Marlin 1894 Cowboy. I have had good success using Hornady's 250gr HP/XTP (.452) and Unique.

I am wanting to try cast bullets but am unsure of the following:

1. Which cast bullets should I buy? Are Meister's any good?

2. Do I use same amount of powder for cast bullets?

3. Do I neck lube for cast bullets?

4. Do some powders work better with cast bullets?

Need help .....

Castaway · « **Reply #1 on:** February 20, 2004, 12:17:49 PM »

At the risk of starting a contest of who can pee the furthest, it's hard to beat Unique with cast bullets. From plinkers to moderately fast loads, it's still the boss hog at the trough. Of course, higher end loads call for W 296 or H110. 8.5 of Unique and a 255 grain bullet will replicate a black powder load. My favorite with a cast bullet is 6.8 of Unique and a 255 grain bullet. I can put 4 in one hole and one a smidgen out at 50 yards with any cast bullet I've tried. Easy on recoil and a great turkey load.

Thomas Krupinski · « **Reply #2 on:** February 20, 2004, 12:59:09 PM »

Just a little word of warning on using Unique with very light loads. It has a tendency to meter inconsistantly in very light loads.

A number of years back I built up some 38 Special really light loads with Unique (something like 2 or 3 grains if I remember at all) and was disgusted with the inconsistancy.

Thought my sights were loose and bouncing around or something the way the bullets were hitting. So I did a test and measured 30 or so throws from a Uniflow and a Little Dandy powder measure and put them into a spreadsheet. Boy were the rusults astounding. Threw out the data long ago, but remember the point.

Now with heavier charges of Unique the problem did not appear.

The Shrink · « **Reply #3 on:** February 21, 2004, 08:59:10 AM »

Bigjeepman

You didn't ask this, so I don't know if you know or not, but with cast bullets you need to slightly flare or expand the neck so the bullet will not shave as it enters the case. RCBS Cowboy die sets and Lyman die sets will already have a die to do this.

If you go with a ball powder remember to use a mag. primer even with the cast bullet.

Wayne

bigjeepman · « **Reply #4 on:** February 22, 2004, 10:43:26 AM »

I appreciate the replies ...

I bought a box of Meister .45 lc RN-FP 250 gr (.452) Saturday and loaded up some loads that I shot today. Everything worked out pretty good as my first attempt at using cast bullets in my reloads was not disappointing. I was using 8.5 gr of Unique with OAL of 1.585". This should have given me in the vicinity of 900 fps. I might back off of the that next time to around 800 to 850 fps and see what that does for grouping.

Castaway ... how many fps does 6.8 gr of Unique give you in the 255 gr bullets you use? That 4 in one hole is very impressive. I am shooting a Marlin 1984 with factory sights and am getting around 1.5" in my best groups.

Thomas ... I weigh each round and have yet to use my RCBS Uniflow so I am being as careful as I can.

The Shrink ... I have the RCBS carbide 3 die set and did bell my cases. I did notice on just 2 rounds however some very small shavings from the Meisters.

Thanks again ......

Castaway · « **Reply #5 on:** February 23, 2004, 12:52:36 AM »

680 f/s in a 7.5" Black Hawk, 820 f/s in a 16" barreled Trapper

The Shrink · « **Reply #6 on:** February 23, 2004, 01:21:01 AM »

Bigjeepman,

You've probably figured this out, but the two that did shave were either
1) canted in the case when seated, or 2) the cases weren't as belled as the rest.

Wayne

sundog · « **Reply #7 on:** February 23, 2004, 10:02:09 AM »

Heed Tom's words about Unique NOT metering consistently in small amounts. Another powder that will do this is Green Dot which is also a VERY Fine large pissola straight wall case powder. GD is a sleeper. Few ever use it or even consider trying it, but it works VERY WELL. sundog

Questor · « **Reply #8 on:** February 23, 2004, 11:43:23 AM »

Most of the bullets you'll find will be fine because, for common calibers, relatively few basic designs are commonly used. Try to buy locally cast bullets if you can find them because you'll probably save on shipping. Another variable is hardness. I buy some Star bullets and Zero bullets that are quite soft-- way too soft for hog hunting, but probably OK for deer. Meisters are good if you can get them shipped to you without them being destroyed in transit. I've bought bullets from them that were deformed and with the lube knocked out of the lube groove.

Generally, it's better to mail order a couple of thousand at a time. They seem to arrive in better shape.

The basic fact is it's harder to find a bad cast bullet than a good one.

That said, it's easy to find bad load data for cast bullets. Stay away from Lyman data. Also, stay away from velocities between about 1000fps and 1200fps. You could get very heavy barrel leading. 900fps or 1300fps will work fine. Speer and RCBS data is good.

For your first attempts at using cast bullets, use bullet sizes that are typical of what the cartridge was designed to operate with. For example, 240 grain 44 magnums, or 185, 200, or 230 grain 45ACPs.

You may need to expand the case mouth a little more than you're used to with jacketed bullets because you don't want to smear the lube off the side of the bullets.

Blackhawk44 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 23, 2004, 12:18:43 PM »

As said, don't go any lower than about 7gr with Unique. You will be trying to use it in a pressure range for which it was not designed and will begin to get very inconsistant ignition and horrible accuracy. If you load to "cowboy" or target levels (650-750fps), switch to something like 5gr Bullseye, 6gr Red Dot, 7gr 231 or Titegroup. Yes, cast bullets like a little more flare to the case neck. As a general rule, you can load cast bullets with jacketed bullet data but not vis versa due to the lower friction of cast bullets. Below about 850fps(900 would be better), its cast only or you run the risk of a bullet stuck in the barrel. Also, there are now very few areas that don't have someone local in the cast bullet business. Freight charges get downright serious on large bullets. Even if local quality is slightly off, minor defects that might make you pass on their 32 or 38 bullets won't make much difference in a 44 or 45 due to the increased mass and surface area, at least for plinking and cowboy loads. BOL

Castaway · « **Reply #10 on:** February 24, 2004, 12:53:53 AM »

Blackhawk44, I beg to differ with your statement about not going less than 7 grains of Unique and so does Allient. They post starting loads at 6.0 grains with a lead bullet. See the link:

http://recipes.alliantpowder.com/rg.taf?_function=cowboy&step=2&bulletID=436&cartridgeID=1005&caliber=%2E45&cartridgedescr=Colt&bulletdescr=250%20gr%20RNFP%20lead

Blackhawk44 · « **Reply #11 on:** February 24, 2004, 06:25:29 AM »

Castaway, with all due respect, while it can be done (especially with 'new" Unique) 40 years of loading pistol shells leads me to maintain that you will find better consistantcy when velocities with Unique are kept above about 750fps. Below that speed, the faster powders prove their worth. In practice, it just works out that way for me, but, we are definitely all individuals.

Castaway · « **Reply #12 on:** February 24, 2004, 07:19:25 AM »

Blackhawk44. No offense taken. When I got my BH in 94, I wanted a plinking load and a hunting load. Looked in the book, saw the range of charges, loaded up at various increments, taking time on sandbags and letting barrel cool. The load I came up with is right on the money for both pistol and carbine. You are right, at less than that at about 6.4 grains, accuracy went out the window. Harmonics came around again around 8 grains. Although 8 grains isurely isn't a wrist buster, I like the consistent results I am getting. Works with the Lee 255 RNFP, Speer and Hornady cast bullet as well.

Blackhawk44 · « **Reply #13 on:** February 24, 2004, 07:25:20 AM »

Es' ta bueno`. BOL. BH

Questor · « **Reply #14 on:** February 24, 2004, 08:16:14 AM »

In any case, Unique is considered a good powder for 45 Colt. That's what I'd use if I had one.

ButlerFord45 · « **Reply #15 on:** February 24, 2004, 11:15:23 AM »

All these replies and no one has even mentioned the perfect powder for the 45!! In fact the powder it was designed to use!!! Personally for cost vs. performance I prefer Goex brand FFF. At 35-38 grains behind a 250/255 grain bullet, it ain't a plinker!

:grin:

bigjeepman · « **Reply #16 on:** February 24, 2004, 02:24:39 PM »

Thanks for all the replies ...

These forums are really cool for getting different opinions. A lot of experience that you all have really helps us that are far less "learned." I have been shooting for sometime but only reloading a very short time. I really enjoy spending my spare time looking for those combinations that group great.

I am reloading for my .243, .300wsm, and .45lc. The .45lc is my favorite though. I will use your suggestions and advice.

Thanks again ...

jd45 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 24, 2004, 02:54:53 PM »

Just my 2 cents.........if you're gonna use black powder, which, I agree, will give you a stout load, you may want to consider something like Hogdon's 777 which will not eat your guns' metal, & gives 10 to 15 % more velocity. jd45