M77, Gunsite, Ruger Guide Gun, or Savage 11x ? Time to Buy, help me choose

[flmason]

Hi All,
   Narrowing down my search for, well basically an all round rifle.  Since I'm afraid to order a Marlin and don't want to do a major search, I'm down to the stainless variants of the following.

    1) M77 All Weather ('06)

    2) Ruger Gunsite Scout Stainless (.308)

    3) Ruger Guide Gun Stainless ('06)

    4) Savage 11x Stainless ('06)

At some point in the future I'll probably search out some of the other choices one might make for this sort of use... but the goods are all used... but for now, just wanting to add one good modern rifle to rack that'll do both hunting and survival type things. Would seem the GSR is the ticket when add in "survival", but seems to be hard to find. Ruger told they only had one shipment on record to some place down south. Lipsey's I think it was. And I know one LGS that said today they have an example or two of the blued ones.  (Want stainless... I have hands that rust guns badly.)

So here's the dilemma.

I like the Savage modularity... the barrel nut, the accustock when available on the model, etc. But it watching disassembly vid... I'm not impressed with the build quality or the number of little parts... but... they are claimed to be amazing accurate with no work... and clearly the most home fixable, changeable, etc. But... push feed...

The Rugers... on the hand, are 98 Mauser derivatives and have most of the design teardown features I like about classic Mausers. (Add the Savage barrel nut and it would be the Ruger, for me, for sure.) But web is full of, "They don't shoot accurate" commentary. And well, the one's I like most, of course, Guide Gun and GSR are hardest to find and double the price of Savage 11x package gun including a scope. That's a big difference... so it's got to be really good... to justify the price. In short, it seems like... well... a stainless... Ruger-ized Mauser... seems a good idea... but something feels wrong about that statement too. Because...well.. they just don't seem all that popular. And why wouldn't a stainless Mauser be like... top of the list?

So I'm afraid, no matter which way I go... I'm making one mistake or another.

Ruger... paying too much for the belief it's a decent Mauser Clone and won't shoot.

Savage... choosing a flimy-er if but more accurate gun that well... won't hold up to the kind of abuse the M77, or M48 or even a Mosin would.

Granted... I never expect to beat on either like that... but want to know it'll take it if needed.

So your thoughts? What would you pick... why?

[mcwoodduck]

I think you picked 4 very different rifles that are all designed for different things.
The M77 All weather is a hunting rifle and will shoot minute of Deer, Pig, elk, antelope, or any other of N Americas Big game.
The M77 Scout rifle is a tactical rifle that cna do multiple duty.  The primary design is tactical but cna be used for hunting and would not be a bad choice for hunting out in nowhere where the back up Iron sights may be helpful if you fall and damage your scout or standard scope.  Seem to be the most versitle rifle you picked.
The M77 Guide gun is just a standard M77 with the noise maker on the front.  Ok it is a muzzle break that will reduce recoil but 30-06  is not that tough of a gun to handle
The Savage is a good choice, I do not know hte models like I do the Ruger.  Althoug I caution the modular design.  You are going to mount a scope to the reciever.  You are not going to yank a barrel in the field and go from 270, to 30-06, to 35 Rem and have the scope work for you.  A 130 grain bullet out of the 270, A 165 out of your 30-06 and a 250 out of your 35 Whelan barrel will not all land in the same spot and noy you have a barrel that is changed and have you set it to the proper torque to rezero you rifle.  Sig Years ago and Blaze now have modular rifles.  The Sig 970 used a standard reciever and the scope mounted to it and you could go from 270 to 30-06 or 300 Win to 7mm mag, not too much variety there.  The Blazer rifle is truly modular and the scope mounts to the barrel.  The mag cna be swaped out from Short to Magnum and everything inbetween as well as the bolt face and then just bolt on your barrel adn go from 243 to 375H&H.  But expensive to do it.  You could buy three of the rifles above for what you would pay to have the Blaze and a caliber change kit.   
Now as to building a rifle from a 98 barreled action, or even sproterizing an 8mm.  THis may be your cheapest option.  8X57 is a great round, Europeans load it above 30-06 in speed and power that the 98 action cna handle.  The Domestic Remington load is similar to a 30-30 round and is fine for all Game here.  Reloading will  make it what ever you want.    The 98 can be easily scoped or made into a Scout rifle ot take advantage of the stripper clips.  Many different options for stocks from tactical to high end woods.  To carving on the one you have and sanding and staining.

[flmason]

@mcwoodduck - Well. yes the 3 Rugers are aimed at different roles to some extent.

My first choice, if it was actually made, would be the GSR, but in 30-06... and 2 inches or so more barrel and no flash hider. I want the detachable magazine and it's capacity, for sure. And I prefer the military leanings of it's looks.  And would add the barrel nut, again.. I could just wish things.

So really it's a choice first... between some M77 and some Savage.

Secondly, if M77... what's available, at what price, vrs. my tastes.

Haven't been able to make up my mind.  There's pros and cons on both sides.

If I thought I could find and order without worry a Stainles Remlin, it might have simply been a choice between a 45-70 and a 30-30. 

Oh, BTW... I'm not laboring under the idea that the Savage is switch barrel like Rossi or H&R. It's just seems that it's a great feature with a side benefit of being able to easily fine tune headspace.  Heck even the Ruger American now is done that way. 

Which BTW, on paper the American has some intriguing features.., Power Bedding and 70 degree throw, but watching a disassembly of the bolt... I clicked "STOP" before it even got to the reassembly... I was like... "Geez, how does a gun engineered to be built cheaper and simpler have so many finicky operations in the bolt assembly? I saw the bolt head built on the Weatherby  idea of the bolt being a big around as the locking lugs... and 3 sets... and thought.. Yeah, that's cool!

Watched this... and said... are you kidding?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4s6qFa2K2g

Contrast to Ruger M77... typical 98 dissassembly but with one pin to assist... no vice grips, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpdF0LL8-QQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNqTKhs8m_w

In Hickock45's vid, it seemed to decently accurate. so perhaps the Power Bedding and the bolt head are working... but geez, I can disassembly a Mosin with the headspace guage or the bayonnette and my *fingers* (for crying out loud).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiHaDsrlGK8

Heck a clean example of a M38 or M44 might be an even better choice if they only were certain to group like todays bolt guns.

But again, a choice that involves a search. You can't just order one, and expect to get a good one every time. Just don't have the time and energy for that right now. Work is eating me up.

So top priority is, "No hassle acquistion", LOL!

Referring to my latest, the 45-70 H&R... well... that went smooth as punch... ordered it... it came, was essentially perfect... 10 days in "gun jail" as they call it... done.


P.S. One of these would be good... LOL! (But again the search... the uncertaintly level that it's good until you shoot it...)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&NR=1&v=fNQqq3O5eVk

[762X51]

WOW! Every single thought, question and observation you made in your post could have come directly from my brain. About a year and a half ago I had the same questions and set about to find the answers first hand. I had a Ruger M77 All Weather but it was the older non-controlled round feed model so to compare everything, I ordered a stainless Ruger M77 MkII All Weather in .308, a Ruger M77 Tactical Carbine in .223, a Savage Model 10 Precision Carbine in .308 and a Savage Model 16 Weather Warrior so I had all the rifles at the same time to do my testing and comparisons with. I also added a Stainless Weather Warrior 7mm Mag, another Savage Precision Carbine with 5R barrel, a Savage Axis in .223 and most recently a Savage 11VT in .223. All the points you made for the Savage; easily interchanged barrel, floating and interchangeable bolt head and AccuTrigger are what attracted me to them too. After MUCH experimentation I can say that the Savages are indeed usually accurate...at least most of them. Of the six I've recently owned, the stainless Axis .223 is the most accurate. SUPERBLY accurate! About 1/2 MOA, 5 shot accuracy consistently. On the down side, of the six Savages I've owned, three had feeding and/or ejecting problems. To me this is a fatal flaw since it doesn't matter how accurate a rifle is if it doesn't function properly I want nothing to do with it. Fortunately the Axis works flawlessly.

In all fairness though the new Ruger MkII Hawkeye All Weather had feeding problems when I first got it too but Ruger bent over backwards to help me while the same can't be said of Savage. Ruger sent a call ticket, picked up the rifle, repaired it and sent it back within a week. They then called to be sure everything was satisfactory with the repair. Sometimes a cartridge would pop free ahead of the extractor and the extractor would not pop over the rim of the cartridge and when the cartridges would come free from the magazine behind the extractor like they should, the extractor failed to grab them as a true CRF rifle should. When the rifle was returned from Ruger it functioned as a CRF rifle should and is just as accurate as my Savage 10 Precision Carbine. My M77 Tactical Carbine functions perfectly and the big extractors and blade ejectors just feel much more positive than the little sliding extractor and plunger ejector on the Savages.

The first Savage Precision Carbine I had would extract the fired cartridge and drop it atop the magazine on occasion preventing feeding the next round. Both my Model 16 Weather Warrior in .223 and my Model 11VT .223 won't pick up the last round from the detachable magazines unless upward pressure is put on magazine baseplate . In my opinion Savage's tolerances are too sloppy, allowing the mag fit to vary enough on each example of a particular model that one gun may feed and the next will not.

In summary let me say that based on your desires and expectations I think you'll be happier with the Model 77. While the Axis is accurate and functions flawlessly it feels cheap (cause it is) and as silly as it sounds, that sorta takes some of the joy out of it. The Model 10, 11, 14, 16, etc. Savages are in my opinion too likely to not function properly to even consider unless you take some dummy rounds and empty cartridges and THOROUGHLY test the EXACT rifle you intend to buy. I've sold all my Savages except the Axis .223 and the Model 11VT. As soon as the Ruger American is available in stainless and .223 I'm sure I'll have to try some of those too and perhaps replace the Axis. There is only ONE THING that makes my experiment incomplete and that is a nagging desire to try one of the American made stainless steel, controlled round feed Winchester Model 70s except Winchester is pimping their own cartridges and they don't even offer the Model 70 in.223!!! Since you're seeking an '06 you may want to give them a look.

Good luck in your quest and I hope my experiences save you more money than I spent to gain them!

[Swampman]

The Savage while very cheaply made will be accurate.  The Rugers will not be accurate.

[flmason]

WOW! Every single thought, question and observation you made in your post could have come directly from my brain. About a year and a half ago I had the same questions and set about to find the answers first hand. I had a Ruger M77 All Weather but it was the older non-controlled round feed model so to compare everything, I ordered a stainless Ruger M77 MkII All Weather in .308, a Ruger M77 Tactical Carbine in .223, a Savage Model 10 Precision Carbine in .308 and a Savage Model 16 Weather Warrior so I had all the rifles at the same time to do my testing and comparisons with. I also added a Stainless Weather Warrior 7mm Mag, another Savage Precision Carbine with 5R barrel, a Savage Axis in .223 and most recently a Savage 11VT in .223. All the points you made for the Savage; easily interchanged barrel, floating and interchangeable bolt head and AccuTrigger are what attracted me to them too. After MUCH experimentation I can say that the Savages are indeed usually accurate...at least most of them. Of the six I've recently owned, the stainless Axis .223 is the most accurate. SUPERBLY accurate! About 1/2 MOA, 5 shot accuracy consistently. On the down side, of the six Savages I've owned, three had feeding and/or ejecting problems. To me this is a fatal flaw since it doesn't matter how accurate a rifle is if it doesn't function properly I want nothing to do with it. Fortunately the Axis works flawlessly.

In all fairness though the new Ruger MkII Hawkeye All Weather had feeding problems when I first got it too but Ruger bent over backwards to help me while the same can't be said of Savage. Ruger sent a call ticket, picked up the rifle, repaired it and sent it back within a week. They then called to be sure everything was satisfactory with the repair. Sometimes a cartridge would pop free ahead of the extractor and the extractor would not pop over the rim of the cartridge and when the cartridges would come free from the magazine behind the extractor like they should, the extractor failed to grab them as a true CRF rifle should. When the rifle was returned from Ruger it functioned as a CRF rifle should and is just as accurate as my Savage 10 Precision Carbine. My M77 Tactical Carbine functions perfectly and the big extractors and blade ejectors just feel much more positive than the little sliding extractor and plunger ejector on the Savages.

The first Savage Precision Carbine I had would extract the fired cartridge and drop it atop the magazine on occasion preventing feeding the next round. Both my Model 16 Weather Warrior in .223 and my Model 11VT .223 won't pick up the last round from the detachable magazines unless upward pressure is put on magazine baseplate . In my opinion Savage's tolerances are too sloppy, allowing the mag fit to vary enough on each example of a particular model that one gun may feed and the next will not.

In summary let me say that based on your desires and expectations I think you'll be happier with the Model 77. While the Axis is accurate and functions flawlessly it feels cheap (cause it is) and as silly as it sounds, that sorta takes some of the joy out of it. The Model 10, 11, 14, 16, etc. Savages are in my opinion too likely to not function properly to even consider unless you take some dummy rounds and empty cartridges and THOROUGHLY test the EXACT rifle you intend to buy. I've sold all my Savages except the Axis .223 and the Model 11VT. As soon as the Ruger American is available in stainless and .223 I'm sure I'll have to try some of those too and perhaps replace the Axis. There is only ONE THING that makes my experiment incomplete and that is a nagging desire to try one of the American made stainless steel, controlled round feed Winchester Model 70s except Winchester is pimping their own cartridges and they don't even offer the Model 70 in.223!!! Since you're seeking an '06 you may want to give them a look.

Good luck in your quest and I hope my experiences save you more money than I spent to gain them!

You know.. I really had it set in my brain a couple years back when I bought Mosin, that eventually... based on Stevens 200 on the rack at the time... I'd get 200 or Savage 11x of some sort in 30-06. They fit me nice and I'd like a scoped rifle someday. But I like military model's durability.

This video scares me about the Savages... that tiny little bit of metal on either side of the pin the firing pin goes through looks awfully flimsy. Not a big problem if it breaks under non-threatening conditions.. the hole is far enough back to give you a shot at taking the the bolt head out with a screw driver or metal rod.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p07mO-0nTog

Completely unacceptable design unless that pin is made from something 100% unbreakable.

Looks spooky to me. It gets slapped twice for every round. 

When I think my father had a truly custom, top notch .458 built on a 98 Mauser... this sort of cheapness, just makes me cringe.. and yet... some of the Savage features are truly first class... the barrel nut idea, now the accustock. I really like the design of the accutrigger safety too...

But everyone says the Rugers won't shoot, and I can see from some disassembly vids.. they are aren't truly an 98 Mauser clone. Close. but not the same.

So the Zastava M63 starts to look interesting... but as is... would only take a scout scope...  and... it's imported by Mitchell's, some say that's a bad thing.

If it weren't for my current pre-disposition to buy new in the box, I'd just say... "Dude, just search for a proper example of an 03 Springfield or Kar 98K and with a scope and expect to ante up the price for a historical arm."

But those won't be stainless. So, it's like the closest thing I'm seeing is the Ruger GSR in stainless, at least it has an 18" barrel rather than 16.5. Both or which are too short in my mind. 20-22' is as short as I'd like to go, for ballistic reasons. Muzzle flash though impressive, is wasted energy, ya know?

So the other direction... a marlin stainless lever gun in 30-30 or 45-70 is appealing... but they're having massive quality problems since moving to Illion.

All of which is baffling.... Make the d@mn things with CNC machinery and everyone could come out great.

It's a sad day when I can expect a Chinese made VCR to be more perfect, sight unseen, in the box... than a rifle by one of the classic American names.

There was a time when I honestly believed American firearms demonstrated the right way to make things. These days I'm not so sure.

[flmason]

The Savage while very cheaply made will be accurate.  The Rugers will not be accurate.

Therein lies the problem and the dilemma of choosing.

You want both accurracy and durability in the same gun.

They are, after all, devices for very serious uses.

[Swampman]

Get a Remington Model 700 and forget about it.

[flmason]

Get a Remington Model 700 and forget about it.

I'll bite, why a 700?

My reason for the Ruger is "Psuedo-Mauser with CRF", for the Savage... "Interesting accuracy design features and Barrel Nut".

If some new in box Mauser type had a barrel nut, fixed and scope arrangements, and a military stock/carbine configuration... that's what I'd want in stainless and 30-06. Ideally with long and short box mags.

Nothing quite hits all the points, so it's a tradeoff game.

[flmason]

WOW! Every single thought, question and observation you made in your post could have come directly from my brain. About a year and a half ago I had the same questions and set about to find the answers first hand. I had a Ruger M77 All Weather but it was the older non-controlled round feed model so to compare everything, I ordered a stainless Ruger M77 MkII All Weather in .308, a Ruger M77 Tactical Carbine in .223, a Savage Model 10 Precision Carbine in .308 and a Savage Model 16 Weather Warrior so I had all the rifles at the same time to do my testing and comparisons with. I also added a Stainless Weather Warrior 7mm Mag, another Savage Precision Carbine with 5R barrel, a Savage Axis in .223 and most recently a Savage 11VT in .223. All the points you made for the Savage; easily interchanged barrel, floating and interchangeable bolt head and AccuTrigger are what attracted me to them too. After MUCH experimentation I can say that the Savages are indeed usually accurate...at least most of them. Of the six I've recently owned, the stainless Axis .223 is the most accurate. SUPERBLY accurate! About 1/2 MOA, 5 shot accuracy consistently. On the down side, of the six Savages I've owned, three had feeding and/or ejecting problems. To me this is a fatal flaw since it doesn't matter how accurate a rifle is if it doesn't function properly I want nothing to do with it. Fortunately the Axis works flawlessly.

In all fairness though the new Ruger MkII Hawkeye All Weather had feeding problems when I first got it too but Ruger bent over backwards to help me while the same can't be said of Savage. Ruger sent a call ticket, picked up the rifle, repaired it and sent it back within a week. They then called to be sure everything was satisfactory with the repair. Sometimes a cartridge would pop free ahead of the extractor and the extractor would not pop over the rim of the cartridge and when the cartridges would come free from the magazine behind the extractor like they should, the extractor failed to grab them as a true CRF rifle should. When the rifle was returned from Ruger it functioned as a CRF rifle should and is just as accurate as my Savage 10 Precision Carbine. My M77 Tactical Carbine functions perfectly and the big extractors and blade ejectors just feel much more positive than the little sliding extractor and plunger ejector on the Savages.

The first Savage Precision Carbine I had would extract the fired cartridge and drop it atop the magazine on occasion preventing feeding the next round. Both my Model 16 Weather Warrior in .223 and my Model 11VT .223 won't pick up the last round from the detachable magazines unless upward pressure is put on magazine baseplate . In my opinion Savage's tolerances are too sloppy, allowing the mag fit to vary enough on each example of a particular model that one gun may feed and the next will not.

In summary let me say that based on your desires and expectations I think you'll be happier with the Model 77. While the Axis is accurate and functions flawlessly it feels cheap (cause it is) and as silly as it sounds, that sorta takes some of the joy out of it. The Model 10, 11, 14, 16, etc. Savages are in my opinion too likely to not function properly to even consider unless you take some dummy rounds and empty cartridges and THOROUGHLY test the EXACT rifle you intend to buy. I've sold all my Savages except the Axis .223 and the Model 11VT. As soon as the Ruger American is available in stainless and .223 I'm sure I'll have to try some of those too and perhaps replace the Axis. There is only ONE THING that makes my experiment incomplete and that is a nagging desire to try one of the American made stainless steel, controlled round feed Winchester Model 70s except Winchester is pimping their own cartridges and they don't even offer the Model 70 in.223!!! Since you're seeking an '06 you may want to give them a look.

Good luck in your quest and I hope my experiences save you more money than I spent to gain them!

Well, there are some features of the Savage I really. really like, but I ponied up the $$ for The M77 in '06. The complete user replacable everything, is so excellent, but doesn't seem like a high volume gun. Not really sure the M77 is either. to be honest

Really wany what they don't make...GSR in '06 and stainless...Well actually a stainless 98 Mauser with box mag. LOL!

Let's hope I get a fair to middlin example.

[Swampman]

Get a Remington Model 700 and forget about it.

I'll bite, why a 700?

My reason for the Ruger is "Psuedo-Mauser with CRF", for the Savage... "Interesting accuracy design features and Barrel Nut".

If some new in box Mauser type had a barrel nut, fixed and scope arrangements, and a military stock/carbine configuration... that's what I'd want in stainless and 30-06. Ideally with long and short box mags.

Nothing quite hits all the points, so it's a tradeoff game.

The Remington is accurate and reliable.
 

[762X51]

The Savage while very cheaply made will be accurate.  The Rugers will not be accurate.

That seems to be a persistent belief born years ago when Ruger didn't make its own barrels. My stainless M77 Hawkeye put 5 rounds into .660" (150 grain Sierra over W748). My M77 Hawkeye Tactical Carbine put 5 rounds into .735". I also have personal experience with 2 Ruger Americans that will shoot 5 shots into less than an inch. The M77s have a more solid feel, like using a good tool, while the American is a very accurate, yet cheaply made, completely reliable working man's rifle. The extraction and ejection on the two Americans I'm familiar with is STRONG and the full diameter bolt has very little wobble.

While they aren't stainless the CZ550s are probably the closest thing to a M98 that you're going to find. If I remember correctly they also have an extension on the left rear of the receiver that serves as a support to keep bolt wobble to a minimum. You are correct though; the ideal rifle does not exist. I'm sure you will be happy with your new M77.  Keep us posted!

[SHOOTALL]

The Rugers I have are quite accurate. They are also stronger in the scope mounting dept. with the bases part of the receiver and in a survival situation that is a plus. I have nothing against the Savage but feel the Ruger is better . The Guide gun in 3006 is a nice gun but ammo is heavier than 308 I wsih they would make a Guide gun in 308. The Gunsite gun is a good gun and would work but I don't care for the forward mounted scope and I really can get by with out a detachable magazine. I know it allows more ammo on board and quick reloads and in a fight it would be a good option but for hunting and survival ( note in survival I would avoid contact) why add the weight of a mag. or possible loss ? The standard M77 SS is ok . BUT for me I settled on a Ruger M77 international. It has very good iron sights, comes in SS or blue, 308 , has scope bases made into rec. is light and compact. AND the full length stock protects the barrel. It was the old world answer to your question and still a very good choice so I added it as a suggestion . And still very affordable.

[flmason]

The Rugers I have are quite accurate. They are also stronger in the scope mounting dept. with the bases part of the receiver and in a survival situation that is a plus. I have nothing against the Savage but feel the Ruger is better . The Guide gun in 3006 is a nice gun but ammo is heavier than 308 I wsih they would make a Guide gun in 308. The Gunsite gun is a good gun and would work but I don't care for the forward mounted scope and I really can get by with out a detachable magazine. I know it allows more ammo on board and quick reloads and in a fight it would be a good option but for hunting and survival ( note in survival I would avoid contact) why add the weight of a mag. or possible loss ? The standard M77 SS is ok . BUT for me I settled on a Ruger M77 international. It has very good iron sights, comes in SS or blue, 308 , has scope bases made into rec. is light and compact. AND the full length stock protects the barrel. It was the old world answer to your question and still a very good choice so I added it as a suggestion . And still very affordable.

I agree. One of the things I was considering down the road was whether a full length "Manlicher" style stock is available for the contour of the All Weather that I finally sprang for.

Fixed sites would be nice too. The Guide Guns are definitely appealing.

I hear you on th e.308. Probably the most logical choice for a "both ways" gun. But being a handloader, I couldn't let that extra case capacity of the 30-06 get away.

[SHOOTALL]

Try Stocky's , you got a good gun.

[Swampman]

Recently bought a new Ruger Gunsite Scout.  It wasn't accurate with any ammo I could find.  I sold it.  Nothing has changed.

[flmason]

Recently bought a new Ruger Gunsite Scout.  It wasn't accurate with any ammo I could find.  I sold it.  Nothing has changed.

Bummer, sorry it didn't work out. They're such attractive little bolt guns, to be sure.

[mcwoodduck]

Recently bought a new Ruger Gunsite Scout.  It wasn't accurate with any ammo I could find.  I sold it.  Nothing has changed.

Bummer, sorry it didn't work out. They're such attractive little bolt guns, to be sure.

Since you are relativly new.  You may not know that Swampman bleeds Remington Green. 
He is the equal to the I would rather push my Ford than ride in a Chevy or Dodge kind of guys.
And if in the car Ford bought Yugo the Yugo would be the best thing and if Chevy came out with a car that beets Ferrari it would be an unreliable hunk of junk.  He seems to hold everthing else to a higher standard then the Remingtons. 
I own a few different rifle and see them as the use not the action or Emblem on it. 
All will shoot minute of deer.  All will reach out to 200 yards easily as long as I do my part. And while off the rest all produce 1" groups that opens up as I am not as steady as the bench and the sand bags. 

[Swampman]

I have never found a Ruger that would shoot MOA without a lot of work.  2.5 MOA is not acceptable for me.

[SHOOTALL]

I have never found a Ruger that would shoot MOA without a lot of work.  2.5 MOA is not acceptable for me.

 
 My Rugers shoot very well shame you have not experienced that pleasure. They are so much nicer looking guns.

[Swampman]

Very well is not good enough....if they won't shoot MOA, down the road they go.  They just aren't accurate enough to be interesting.

[flmason]

Well Gents, I wasn't trying to start a Ford v. Chevy thread here. Just trying to wiegh the merits of each design.

Despite having put the money on the Ruger, I'm still feeling remorse and wanting the good features of the Savage. The idea that every part can be user replaced on the Savage, I find very attractive. Means that there's no part that can go, that I can't just replace.

The Ruger, which I chose for it' psuedo-98-Mauser features mostly, is the exact opposite of that. Most especially the bolt.

So I have no idea if I did "the right thing" or not.

Basically I just decided I wanted CRF and that one video that showed that one tiny pin in the bolt with the really thin metal on either side of the hole, is what swayed me. On such well respected make, that there is such seemingly frail part, well... amazes.

Considering I started out saying... "Ah... I'd be really happy with just the Stevens 200"... I'm not sure how I ended up here. Just kind of where the research led. Strangely, I got more joy out of the purchase of Handi in 45-70.

And if I could trust the new Remlins to be good, sight unseen... I might have ended up with a 336SS or Guide Gun in SS in 45-70. (Probably still will someday when I see one in person that's good.)

So basically I chose CRF over "modular with some apparently little frail parts" was my rationale.

Why?

Well, because I like to feel *any* gun I own, if I had to grab just one and make a go of it... is reliable enough to bet my life on.

Is the Savage.... most likely, if not most definitely... just seemed slightly less so. But only by that one little part... and push feed. Otherwise, I prefer the structural techniques inherent in the Savage... if the 30-06 was available with the CRF bolt head, I might *still* have gone that way.

Here's the vid again, let me know your thoughts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p07mO-0nTog

[mcwoodduck]

Good choice.
I sent you a PM.