Did somebody drop the ball?

[ironglow]

  Since 9/11 we are supposed to be alert and watchful.  I have heard that backpacks are not allowed in Times square on New Year's Eve, trash cans are carefully watched, etc.
         At the Boston event, we have 2 middle east looking young men, struggling along under heavy back packs, they deposit the back packs on the sidewalk where the finish line observers are watching the runners cross the finish line.. then they nonchalantly walkoff.
 
  Did somebody drop the ball?  Even though they did a great job catching the mass murderers; did the local police depts " close the barn door, after the horse was stolen"?

[Dee]

Can anyone really believe that with 300,000,000 folks living in a free society, that it's realistic to be able to stop every single terrorist plot? I mean really? The mere thought that they could, is not very realistic.

[vabeachman]

I just kinda surprised that none of the bystanders saw anything.  If someone laid down a good size package by me and simply left,  I would be suspicious and report it. 

[Empty Quiver]

Pretty easy to armchair QB. There are a hell,of a lot of people in the pictures I have seen. Most of those present are intent on something other than what is going on around them they're spectators after all.


I would venture to say going forward, yes, people will be more observant. At one time I went to a couple NASCAR races a year. Post 9/11 there was heightened security... But I believe a person could have brought a 5 gallon bucket of gas and a pallet of road flares past the gate. People ain't got time for all this crap. Watch your kids watch out for traffic watch out for rapists, pickpockets, panhandlers, terrorists with guns, terrorists with bombs terrorists with who knows what. People step in front of busses and get killed and a bus ain't hiding, trains hit cars with surprising regularity and the dangled things don't swerve at you.


Human nature favors the random terrorist.

[Dee]

Ever stood in a crowd, and looked at the different kinds of people from all over the world millin around?
As far as this "good sized package" which was one of several thousand BACKPACKS being toted around at a "SPORTING EVENT"? How long had it been there BEFORE it went off? Report it to WHO. How long would it take you to find someone to report it to? Would YOU have reported it in time. Hell, why not just pick it up, and take to the person your gonna report it to.
People did what they did, cause that's what they've always done. And now, people are doin what THEY'VE always done. SECOND GUESSIN!
 
 

[vabeachman]

Every time I am in a large crowd I got my radar up.  Not just bombers, but pick pockets and thieves.  Pretty much avoid large crowds of strangers anymore.  Yep It is easy to be a armchair quarterback, but terrorism is here to stay regardless of anything we do.  If a good size package is abandoned it is different to one that is being carried.  ABANDONED PACKAGES. I never mentioned backpacks in possession by someone.  In todays world any abandoned package must be questioned, especially those in proximity to large numbers of people.  I am not talking about packages that are actually in possession of someone.  I prefer to be aware of what is going around in my environment.  Again that is just me.  If other people prefer to be oblivious to what is going around about them, they become easy prey.  I am sure there was at least some security personnel that a suspicious abandoned package could have been reported to, like they do at airports. 

[Dee]

Every time I am in a large crowd I got my radar up.  Not just bombers, but pick pockets and thieves.  Pretty much avoid large crowds of strangers anymore.  Yep It is easy to be a armchair quarterback, but terrorism is here to stay regardless of anything we do.  If a good size package is abandoned it is different to one that is being carried.  ABANDONED PACKAGES. I never mentioned backpacks in possession by someone.  In todays world any abandoned package must be questioned, especially those in proximity to large numbers of people.  I am not talking about packages that are actually in possession of someone.  I prefer to be aware of what is going around in my environment.  Again that is just me.  If other people prefer to be oblivious to what is going around about them, they become easy prey.  I am sure there was at least some security personnel that a suspicious abandoned package could have been reported to, like they do at airports.

Not that it matters, but with this I agree. We are responsible for what WE do, and I believe if I was not there, I have little business criticizing those that were there. That is my point.

[FPH]

20/20 hind sight is always better. We need to live and learn.

[ironglow]

 Things were very different before 9/11/01.  I am not blaming the cop on the street or even their direct bosses...guess that would fall more to the commissioner , mayors etc...and the people in general. 
     Weren't we told after 9/11 to report any large, apparently abandoned packages?  I believe that every New Years Eve in Times Square, people are told not to bring backpacks to the celebration..right or wrong ?
   Any large gathering is suspect..is it not?  Is it not an open opportunity and invitation to these nutjobs ?  People just don't seem to be as alert to possible attacks as they once were.  One situation which (IMO) helps to exacerbate the situation, is when the federal govt refuses to recognize a terrorist attack and call it as such.  We have had a progression of terrorist attacks..the murder of a couple soldiers in Arkansas, the Ft Hood terrorist..and the sundry "honor killings" across the country.. to the beheading of a woman in western NY and playing soccer with her head..  Had these been labelled as terrorist in spired attacks..perhaps people would bve more alert and not ss prone to "go to sleep"..

[vabeachman]

We need to keep alert now and forever.  These terrorists are never going to stop.  This is a reawakening for me.  Maybe we can learn something to help prevent more tragedies.

[spruce]

It's just human nature to get complacent after a period of time - cops, civilians, all of us.
 
Imagine someone reporting an abandoned backpack (which it seems half the spectators were carrying) just a week ago and reporting one now.  You think there would be a different reaction from the police or race official?  Does anyone really think they would have stopped the BOSTON MARATHON just because there was a backpack on the sidewalk?
 
Of course not - they would NOW, but not THEN!
 
Even if someone had reported it to a policeman and he took immediate action to try to clear the crowd away, the crowd wouldn't have been very cooperative and it would have been very difficult to impossible to get them to move and give up their preferred spots!  The reaction would be very different now.  For the next few months (at the most) all it would take to clear an area is for someone to yell BACKPACK - it would be akin to yelling FIRE in a movie theater.
 
For a while after 9/11 people were really nervous about flying - now all they do is grumble about how long the boarding process takes.

[Casull]

Looks like these guys family immigrated here during the Bush admin....when GWOT was going great guns!

 
 
 
 
Hmmmmm, are you saying that Bush should have prohibited any legal entry into this country by dark skinned people?   

[spruce]

YES, IT WAS BUSH'S FAULT!!
 
I think he invented backpacks and IED's - and everything else that is bad for mankind!  He caused the Civil War, WW1,  WW2, and the stock market crash of 1929!
 
And he's been gone for over 4 years - maybe it's time to start blaming someone else?

[Dee]

The police caused it, with those military type uniforms. Oh! Wait! They didn't show up until after the fact. Hmmmmm  Somebody is to blame. Who can we blame? Here's just an idea. We could blame the muslim terrorists that set off the bombs! Naw! That won't work. Too obvious.

[mcwoodduck]

The police caused it, with those military type uniforms. Oh! Wait! They didn't show up until after the fact. Hmmmmm  Somebody is to blame. Who can we blame? Here's just an idea. We could blame the muslim terrorists that set off the bombs! Naw! That won't work. Too obvious.

Dee, You are a Master of the Obvious. 
But the liberals tell us we do not need to protect our selves that the Police, the Feds. the Home land security will all protect us.
Especally in a Liberal Mecca (no pun intended) like Boston.  And I can see why the populatin asks what happened, I see the Liberals saying we need more and more  tax money to be spent on equipment, officers, and training.    We had this problem in LA and many that are good people could not become police because of quota policies, and with those quota policies you have people that never should have been allowed ot be police to be police.  Because of these liberal policies the Holly wood shot out put both officers and civilians in danger because they took buck and slugs away from the officers and the 4 shot bounced off the bad guys and now we have AR 15's in every squad car and even on motorcycles when a few cases of 00 Buck and slugs would have worked and not made the whole nation look like eastern Europe. 
And no matter aht training you give the officers, no matter what equipment you issue them, these things will still happen.
 

[Dee]

Indeed they will duck.

[mechanic]

A wary populace might stop some threats.....good police work will stop others...but with as many people bent on killing some of us, there will be some that succeed.  We live in a dangerous world, and should be glad we live in the part of it we do, at least for now.
When you need help immediately, the police are only minutes away....we need to always be aware.
 
Ben

[ironglow]

Who knows what kind of assistance the Islamofacist crazies can gin up ?    .. All the more reason to keep our guns.

[Empty Quiver]

Looks like these guys family immigrated here during the Bush admin....when GWOT was going great guns!

 
 
 
 
Hmmmmm, are you saying that Bush should have prohibited any legal entry into this country by dark skinned people?   

.
I'm saying these guys and family came in here during the height of GWOT during President GWOT's administration....and that's odd--have wars with the islamics and allow their immigration here,,,just odd.  Pictures I saw of these guys had them looking quite Caucasian, btw.
.
.
.....TM7

Odd? hell this country has filled clear up with muslims you can't throw a dead cat around here without hitting a Somali muslim. I could be incorrect but didn't GW say something to the effect of not all muslims are dirtbag terrorist A-holes ( I don't remember the exact quote ). I'm sure he said our beef was with the dirtbag, terrorist, A-hole, muslims. By and large if you are not of the above persuasion and don't associate with the above, then you have had nothing to fear from us.


So for ten odd years this family did not fit the description. Either through deception or truth in advertising they presented themselves as needing a decent place to live and prosper. The US gave them that while 'ol Dubbya was in charge.


Are you for or against religious profiling? Can we stick to behavioral profiling, or should that be looked into? A couple years ago the FBI shook the older one down on a credible tip. He was pretty good at deceiving them, the laws protecting individual rights seem to have worked well enough.


Freedom is not without its problems. Freedom has stood us well these last couple centuries, I'm willing to continue.

[Casull]

Quote

Looks like these guys family immigrated here during the Bush admin....when GWOT was going great guns!

 
 
 
 
Hmmmmm, are you saying that Bush should have prohibited any legal entry into this country by

dark skinned people?   
 

  .

I'm saying these guys and family came in here during the height of GWOT during President GWOT's administration....and that's odd--have wars with the islamics and allow their immigration here,,,just odd.  Pictures I saw of these guys had them looking quite Caucasian, btw.

   
 
 
       Just comical to see the difference in your posts depending on who is getting/not getting gored.  If these people had entered while obama was in office and someone had tried to lay blame on him for letting in a moosilimb, you would have been all over them.  However, since they entered when Bush was President, then you have no problem laying it at his feet.
 

[mcwoodduck]

So on the news this moring the TV wa left on CBS (communist news system) and they were talking about how they did not read the Boston Bomb Islomofascist his rights and were questioning him.
I makes me wonder even if he is a citizen should people that are trying to destroy our constitution be awarded the protections in it?  And if the 5th and 4th amendments do not apply to him at time of questioning does the 8th and 1st apply at time of sentenace?  Can we draw and Quarter him, can we torture him?  Can we fill hollow points with Bacon and shoot him and allow pigs to eat him?  Could the end goal be to eliminate the 72 vergins and paradise from them to stop them?

[mechanic]

If our constitution means anything, he should be afforded the same rights as anyone else who is a citizen.  We are becoming a nation of men and not laws, something our founders warned against.
Ben

[wolverine_1]

"If our constitution means anything, he should be afforded the same rights as anyone else who is a citizen.  We are becoming a nation of men and not laws, something our founders warned against.
Ben"
 
Amen.  We can't expect to have rights we won't extend to others. If I remember correctly, Israel was commanded to care for the widdows, fatherless, and ailen amoung them. The prophets said they weren't doing that and look at what happened to them.

[ironglow]

  Interesting how Obama seems to say one terrorist who is technically a citizen must be afforded full constitutional rights...while the other, along with his kid can legally be targeted and pulverized by a US drone..    Perhaps we need some consistancy..

[mechanic]

Yep, IG, I agree.  We need to follow the law or change it, but all men should be treated the same.   One day it might be you and I who are labeled "terrorist".  I believe this young man is most likely guilty as charged, but if he doesn't get his day in court with presumed innocence, how may I some day.....
 
We need to get back to the law of the land and follow it.  A combatant on a foreign battlefield is one matter, but on our soil, a US citizen by any stripe should be accorded his day in court.  If Miranda applies to one, it should apply to all.
Ben

[SharonAnne]

where were those 55,000 DHS agents? Oh yes, they were molesting air traffic patrons. Why aren't they on the southern border?

DHS is a JOKE.