Author Topic: Pressure  (Read 997 times)

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Offline daniel2013

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Pressure
« on: April 21, 2013, 01:52:29 PM »
Ok, I know one can check velocity with a Chronograph, but what is a easy way to check pressure?

Offline necchi

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Re: Pressure
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2013, 03:35:16 PM »
Invest is 80,000 dollars worth of test equipment.
Or buy load books from people that have that equipment and follow the suggested loads.
 
$300 worth of "Quick Load" software will do it too,,
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Offline daniel2013

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Re: Pressure
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2013, 05:33:38 PM »
Invest is 80,000 dollars worth of test equipment.
Or buy load books from people that have that equipment and follow the suggested loads.
 
$300 worth of "Quick Load" software will do it too,,
I already have a very good library of loading books since I have been loading for over 50 years.  Their are many things that can affect pressure such as crimp or no crimp, different kind of brass, thickness of neck, different primers, etc.  I do not vary from the books but as you probably know their is a big variation even from one loading book to another.

Offline Larry L

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Re: Pressure
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2013, 06:12:43 PM »
If you can find an Oehler Model 43 unit, it gives you chamber pressures, velocities, etc and it's not even close to 80 grand or even 8 grand. They were about the price of a good quality scope. Problem is that Oehler quit making them. I have no idea why but you can always call Ken Oehler and ask. Who knows, he might just make ya one.

Offline Bigeasy

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Re: Pressure
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2013, 08:23:51 PM »
Best way is to stick with known loads out of a loading manual.  Always start 10% below max and work up, because as stated above, different components and guns act differently.  For example, a 150 grain homogeneous bullet, like a Barnes solid copper will have longer bearing surface and be a little less compressible then a 150 grain cup and core bullet, and will usually exhibit higher pressure if you are using data tested with a conventional bullet.  A tight bore is another example.
 
An accurate chrono can help.  Velocity and pressure go hand in hand, so if a book load shows say 2500 fps out of a 24 inch barrel, but in your gun is chronoing 2800 fps out of a 22 inch barrel, then all else being equal, you are operating at a higher pressure.
 
Traditional signs of high pressure like flattened primers, loose primer pockets, sticky extraction, case failure, etc. can help, but are not reliable, as other factors like a rough chamber, headspace, bad firing pin, etc. could also be the cause.  Again, when you reach loads that exhibit these signs that are pressure related, and not the gun, you are already too hot.  Probably the most reliable indicator of high pressure for the the reloader is by checking case head expansion.  To much to go into detail here, but their are excellent articles available to reloaders on how to do this properly.
 
I always wondered why Oehler stoped making the transducer based chrono system that allowed pressure testing.  Maybe too many reloaders used it improperly and ended up blowing themselves up?
 
Larry
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Offline daniel2013

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Re: Pressure
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2013, 03:08:03 AM »
Yes, as a matter of fact I had loaded up some 357 Mag shells with 2400 powder,  I was quite a ways below the maximum load in the book but was still getting primers flattened out.

Offline Bigeasy

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Re: Pressure
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2013, 05:02:26 AM »
Flattened primers at normal pressures are not uncommon in a revolver.  I have experienced it in a number of guns, even with factory loads.  I have been told it is because of the small amount of "slop" needed between the shell and breech face for the cylinder to turn properly.  The gun fires, and as pressure drops, the empty cases grip on the chamber wall lessens, and the case slams back against the breech face, flattening the primer.
 
Larry
Personal opinion is a good thing, and everyone is entitled to one.  The hard part is separating informed opinion from someone who is just blowing hot air....

Offline necchi

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Re: Pressure
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2013, 06:59:43 PM »
I have been loading for over 50 years.
Then you should know what it takes to find exact pressures. A proper CUP barrel set up and/or the transducers,, and both are factory set ups.
Sorry,  :-\
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Pressure
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2013, 02:57:17 AM »
I would add about loading manuals , keep up to date ones and refrain from thinking old ones are 100 % safe . they may be or they may be pushing the pressure limit in some guns. Also keep several on hand and cross check. Some books list every component used others list in a general way. You can always find a load . In todays market it is hard to find all the listed components for load listed in books But if you have one that is general ( Like the R. Lee one) that list example - large rifle primers , 150 -155 jacketed bullet and commercial cases and a specific powder you have a lot of leeway in component choice. Also some will reduce load to min and use a different case or primer and work back up . That practice might be safe in one gun but not another. I shot IMHSA with some guys who took a XP-100 in 7BR filled the case with Bullseye and remotely fired it. They filmed it and the gun had gas released form every possible opening but it held together a very strong action . Others may not be so strong  It lead many of us to creep past max loads . What happened was in my case gun wear was fast. The bolt stop and safety came loose and fell off. Primers were blown and the bolt face has flame cuts in it. Of course there was early barrel wear and in reality it served no purpose as standard loads worked well . I now wonder what the collective damage was or could have been over a long time ? and when would the bolt lugs or receiver fail ? It took some time but I seldom load to max anymore and deer still drop and paper targets still have holes in them and gongs still ring.
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Pressure
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2013, 03:06:21 AM »
I once saw the result of a 270 bbl installed and chambered in 3006 on a factory gun. The owner shot a 3006 in it and said it felt and sounded funny. So he shot another . Then his son noticed brass coming out the hole on the side of the receiver so he thought something might be wrong. I was at the counter of the Box store when he returned it and ask for a replacement. The gun still looked good other than some brass coming out of the vent and the brass imbedded in the action made the bolt hard to work. So guns can take a lot of pressure in some cases but why test them at home.
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline goodconcretecolor

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Re: Pressure
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2013, 02:02:10 AM »
The first chapter of "Pet Loads" by Ken Waters has an interesting technique for assessing pressure. It is more sensitive than head measuring and allows you to detect when you are approaching a safe maximum which none of the other techniques allows.