Westboro baptist church gets jailed in Texas! (well they got threatened anyway)

[Oldshooter]

I am glad to hear they were not jailed. This caused a bit of a personal dilemna for me. When I first read the first post of this thread I had mixed feelings. On one I hand I would love to see those hate filled people muzzled. On the other hand jailing and holding them with no charges would set a dangerous precedent. What happens when you get a liberal democrat sherrif and you want to exercise your First Amendment rights on a subject that is contrary to his beliefs, like say the Second Amendment? He doesnt want to hear it and he throws you in jail and holds you on no charge. A dangerous precedent indeed.

I understand how you feel lakota. But personally if the situation comes up I'm not ashamed to say I was arrested expressing my first amendment rights saying what I thought was right about my second amendment rights.
 
I would really like to hear from an attorney just what the legality of arresting or detaining someone for the allowed period with preferring charges is.
 
But as Dee said if it was my family involved I would be arrested probably, and not for expressing my first amendment rights.
 
The main thing to take away from this incident is the fact that it worked. The threat of arrest was enough to keep them away and that is all decent people would do anyway regardless of their beliefs. that sheriff didn't want to arrest anyone he just didn't want those funerals to be made a mockery.
 
Sit back and think if your freedoms aren't important enough to go to jail for, maybe they don't mean much.

[AtlLaw]

As I understand it, these people want to incite problems so they can file a lawsuit.  I should think an illegal arrest would give them just what they wanted.   

[Oldshooter]

but can they be held for a period of time for say, disturbing the peace without  charging them.
 
the sherriff said he had been in conference with the district attorney.

[Dee]

What these folks really need is a genuine, and thorough ass kickin, and then be told that if they show up at another funeral they get another ass kickin.

[SHOOTALL]

Does this mean it's okay to be thrown in jail by LE, when they've no intention of charging you with a crime, but just want to screw you over and show who's boss?

I believe one needs to understand the area in which things happen. Yes we have federal laws but the reason for the system of govt. we have is to allow for local needs and ways of doing things. Yes this has been altered lately by a federal court system that is less sympathetic than past courts. A Sheriff and in the West more so and in Texas in particular a Sheriff is a peace officer not a policeman. I believe I'm correct in thinking they are more pro-active in stopping things, crime or un lawful protest that the voters in their area may not want in their county/town. Often they don't have the resources to react so they have to be pro active. That said it seems Sheriffs have been  putting people in jail to cool off for a long time. Better than causing them to have a record even if they are to stupid to know it.
So to answer your question , maybe depending on where you happen to be at the time in this great country. We just need to elect the Sheriffs that won't abuse it.

[SHOOTALL]

To put that in perspective , if my son got out of line and a sheriff let him sit in a cell over night then sent him on his way with a stern warning saving me putting up bail and hireling a lawyer  I would be grateful. If he abused my son I would go after him any way I could. It's not about being boss it's about keeping the peace .

[ironglow]

How are these folks allowed to call themselves "Baptists?" Can you just start a church and call yourselves anything you like? Or are they sanctioned by some Baptist Convention? I've been a Baptist all my life and never heard or dreamed of such goings-on endorsed by the Church!

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 Duke; 
    You asked an honest question..I'll give you an HONEST answer.
   There is no copyright on the term "Baptist"..any group can claim the title.  Unfortunately, some nefarious mobs do just that, knowing the title gains them some credibility.  For instance "Westboro Baptist" sounds more dignified than " The Westboro gang that hates gays"..
I doubt the Westboro neighborhood, where the WBC is located, likes their name associated with that group either!!
   
    The position of every independant Baptist Church I have ever had anything to do with, concerning "gays"... does indeed reflect the "hate the sin, love the sinner".  What some folks confuse with "hate" is  an honest effort to convict people of what unrepentant sin can do to their eternal destination...and that goes for all sin, our own included!
    The problem with the "gay lifestyle" as well as several other popular sins... is that there is no repentance, which is mandatory for forgiveness.  We even find "churches" telling people deep in these sins, that such is not a sin, and they are doing just fine..when the Bible clearly says differently. 
     So are these "excusers of sin" doing the sinner any favor ?  It seems more likely they may be greasing their skids into hell!
 
      You have been badly informed in this thread, concerning the normal independant Baptist church.  I studied with a Baptist seminary and I should like to tell you..the hundreds of independant Baptist churches you see dotting the landscape do have guiding rules and beliefs..  The Bible is their doctrine and belief system, and they hold much closer to the Holy Scriptures than almost any "mainline" denomination you can think of. 
  So why are they "independant" ?   Well, usually the leadership in these church bodies are well experienced in other denominational practices, many having broken free from those hierarchial structures.  They had become tired of having some remote bosses at state, national or international level take a large percentage of their funds donated to the Lord's work, since so much goes to maintaining big shots' status, offices and  programs which local people often frown upon.
  When decisions are made at the local level just where their efforts will be expended, local people are more content.  The Apostolic pattern was based upon the local, autonomous church.
 
  Don't listen to the lie that independant Baptists "make up" their doctrine.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  Those "mainliners" who are permissive of all kinds of sin are the gang who truly "make it up as they go"..
  I'll welcome a debate with mainliners on the issue..but lets take it to the "religious discussion" forum..

[yellowtail3]

    The position of every independant Baptist Church I have ever had anything to do with, concerning "gays"... does indeed reflect the "hate the sin, love the sinner".

These are the folks who call gay people funny bunnies and rump bandits, right? I've seen in right here at GBO, from self-described 'Christians' - and I'll bet a buck, some of them are Baptists. (I can afford the buck)

What some folks confuse with "hate" is  an honest effort to convict people of what unrepentant sin can do to their eternal destination...

...hence the funny bunnies moniker, and the like?
 

You have been badly informed in this thread, concerning the normal independant Baptist church.

Not so. Who does a John R Rice, Sword-of-the-Lord Baptist church answer to? What governing body? Name it?

  I studied with a Baptist seminary and I should like to tell you..the hundreds of independant Baptist churches you see dotting the landscape do have guiding rules and beliefs..  The Bible is their doctrine and belief system, and they hold much closer to the Holy Scriptures than almost any "mainline" denomination you can think of. 

Yeah, that's what they say... and some of 'em think that if it's not KJV, it's suspect - and curse that Revised Stinking Version! And these boobs - I've known 'em! - call themselves scholars, once they're able to define koine.

So why are they "independant" ?   Well, usually the leadership in these church bodies are well experienced in other denominational practices, many having broken free from those hierarchial structures.

...so they can make it up & emphasize what they think important. Many get it right. Many get it wrong.
 They had become tired of having some remote bosses at state, national or international level take a large percentage of their funds donated to the Lord's work, since so much goes to maintaining big shots' status, offices and  programs which local people often frown upon.
  When decisions are made at the local level just where their efforts will be expended, local people are more content.  The Apostolic pattern was based upon the local, autonomous church. Apart from protesting funerals... what is it you dislike about Westboro, doctrine-wise?

  I'll welcome a debate with mainliners on the issue..but lets take it to the "religious discussion" forum..

You do ahead. I'd rather talk Mercury outboards and lever rifles.

[SHOOTALL]

 This cracks me up , someone goes to church and calls themselves a Baptist and Yellowtail 3 immediately assumes they now live a perfect Christian life.  Well most churches are full of sinners trying to learn. We were not born knowing every thing about God. We grow up in a world where both Gods way and the devils way are influencing us as we learn.
 I ask why is it there is little or no tolerance for Christians ? And from those who demand tolerance for their short comings that's the definition of arrogance IMHO.

[yellowtail3]

This cracks me up , someone goes to church and calls themselves a Baptist and Yellowtail 3 immediately assumes they now live a perfect Christian life.

Oh no, you misunderstand - I'd never make that assumption. I know better, first-hand. 
 

I ask why is it there is little or no tolerance for Christians ?

I think there's plenty of tolerance for Christians. They're the dominant religion/culture here in America. What intolerance do refer to?

And from those who demand tolerance for their short comings that's the definition of arrogance IMHO.

give a ferinstance?

[SHOOTALL]

This cracks me up , someone goes to church and calls themselves a Baptist and Yellowtail 3 immediately assumes they now live a perfect Christian life.

Oh no, you misunderstand - I'd never make that assumption. I know better, first-hand.  Sorry then couldn't tell from your post
 

I ask why is it there is little or no tolerance for Christians ?

I think there's plenty of tolerance for Christians. They're the dominant religion/culture here in America. What intolerance do refer to? Most expect them to lead a perfect life. Many point out their short comings saying they should practice what they preach. You offer phrases they say the question their commitment to their chosen church.

And from those who demand tolerance for their short comings that's the definition of arrogance IMHO.

give a ferinstance? pointing out the failure of some when they themselves are not with out sin or failure. " self described Christians........................" check out your reply to Ironglow. I think it covers your ferinstance request 

[yellowtail3]

check out your reply to Ironglow. I think it covers your ferinstance request 

mine was an fine reply to Ironglow. I've got plenty of experience to draw on, re: independent baptists. and on the bit about nastiness towards gays... I quoted some folks here. Got a problem with that?


So long as Christians are defining themselves by hating gay people... they should get used to be called on it. If that's persecution or intolerance... perhaps they'd benefit from a little self-reflection. Then they can repent their ungodly ways.

[SHOOTALL]

check out your reply to Ironglow. I think it covers your ferinstance request 

mine was an fine reply to Ironglow. I've got plenty of experience to draw on, re: independent baptists. and on the bit about nastiness towards gays... I quoted some folks here. Got a problem with that?


So long as Christians are defining themselves by hating gay people... they should get used to be called on it. If that's persecution or intolerance... perhaps they'd benefit from a little self-reflection. Then they can repent their ungodly ways. And to that I have to say if it looks like a duck , walks like a duck , smells like a duck it must be a duck. If it doesn't it might not be a duck no matter how it describes itself. I really don't know how many Baptist churches of different covenants are near my home but it is quite a few. Some are more attuned to hell fire and brimstone while others display forgiveness and figure sinners do better in church that persecuted by church members . And yes most feel homosexuality is wrong. I do myself but also believe God will judge the Homosexual and it is not my place to judge. It however is my place to make sure my wife and children know it is wrong. It is also my responsibility to relay what the Bible tells us about homosexuality if ask. Now as to making fun of homosexuals some do things to draw attention and are quite funny . I feel some do so to just say I can get away with pizzing ya'll off. Others live a life normal in most other ways. Excuse me but if someone straight or homosexual does something funny in public I might laugh.

[SHOOTALL]

Anyway, it seems this Westboro group, in their scheme of things, has taken good ole Christian anti-gay animosity and linked it up with a context of latent homosexuality inherent within the ranks of military, paramilitary and auxiliary military groups....that appears to be one of their root thought notions which prompts them to do the things they do.
.  You can read my thoughts on homosexuals above but the WG should be thankful for anyone willing to die to protect our country. God will judge their hearts as to right or wrong in their life style. And I'm sure some brain fart will bring up taking showers etc. hurting military morale  Well I worry about what's in my heart not others.
.
..TM7

[yellowtail3]

Shootall - apart from Westoboro's regrettable behavior at funerals of soldiers... what do you disagree with them on? Here's a list for you to ponder:

• they hate gay people
• they hate liberals
• they hate Obama
• they hate abortion
• they think they're right & goin' to heaven, everyone else is damned.

sounds like lots of of folks hereabout, dontcha think?

[SHOOTALL]

When you hate people are you going to heaven I don't know and won't judge them? I disagree with some of the same things those people represent but don't hate them. I really feel sorry for some of them.  And yes many have those views , does it make it right ? You know how I feel about homosexuals, I disagree most of the time with liberals , I did not vote for Obama either time nuff said, I do hate the idea of abortion due to the lax moral behavior of people and the last involves judging others and you know my views on that. What's to ponder ?

[yellowtail3]

...I did not vote for Obama either time nuff said, .... What's to ponder ?

Hey, we've got something in common!

[ironglow]

 

    The position of every independant Baptist Church I have ever had anything to do with, concerning "gays"... does indeed reflect the "hate the sin, love the sinner".

   These are the folks who call gay people funny bunnies and rump bandits, right? I've seen in right here at GBO, from self-described 'Christians' - and I'll bet a buck, some of them are Baptists. (I can afford the buck) 
   ...And you can be quite sure the same person might call a burglar a "thief", a prostitute a "loose woman" and cursing person as a "garbage mouth"...  Sometimes stigmatizing an unsavory practice, helps to persuade one toward a wholesome lifestyle.

What some folks confuse with "hate" is  an honest effort to convict people of what unrepentant sin can do to their eternal destination...

     ...hence the funny bunnies moniker, and the like?   
   See above.. sometimes when a child messes his pants long past the time when he knows better.. being referred to as "stinky britches" may encourage him to better behavior.
 
 

You have been badly informed in this thread, concerning the normal independant Baptist church.

     Not so. Who does a John R Rice, Sword-of-the-Lord Baptist church answer to? What governing body? Name it?
  A good example of an independant, Bible believing church, besides a board of Deacons..the church leader answers to God..fairest, most decent Chairman-of-the-Board there is!.

  I studied with a Baptist seminary and I should like to tell you..the hundreds of independant Baptist churches you see dotting the landscape do have guiding rules and beliefs..  The Bible is their doctrine and belief system, and they hold much closer to the Holy Scriptures than almost any "mainline" denomination you can think of. 

   Yeah, that's what they say... and some of 'em think that if it's not KJV, it's suspect - and curse that Revised Stinking Version! And these boobs - I've known 'em! - call themselves scholars, once they're able to define koine.   
    Some folks prefer one version, some another.  If you are a church-attending Christian.. I bet you may have a preference among those which are available..  As far as your Koine remark, don't underestimate their scholarship!  There are some who have veritable alphabets behind their names...but still fail to deliver the Word as delivered to them, and would not so much as stop by a suffering man and show him the plan of salvation...

So why are they "independant" ?   Well, usually the leadership in these church bodies are well experienced in other denominational practices, many having broken free from those hierarchial structures.

    ...so they can make it up & emphasize what they think important. Many get it right. Many get it wrong.
  There you go again!  Drawing a false conclusion..and "sticking with it". .The Bible is clear and succinct, before any council of hootnanies in district, state, national or international headquarters gets together and decides to "re-write" it!
 
  They had become tired of having some remote bosses at state, national or international level take a large percentage of their funds donated to the Lord's work, since so much goes to maintaining big shots' status, offices and  programs which local people often frown upon. When decisions are made at the local level just where their efforts will be expended, local people are more content.  The Apostolic pattern was based upon the local, autonomous church.[quote/]
   Apart from protesting funerals... what is it you dislike about Westboro, doctrine-wise? 
    I haven't studied the Westboro gang's statement of doctrine.  Observing their actions, it is probably as mixed up as it can possibly be !  A couple features  can be freely observed though;
  1) They obviously hate our military..taking every opportunity to insult them.  That is nothing new however, during the Vietnam conflict, some "mainline" churches demonstrated against the troops..and some even gave sanctuary to draft-dodger deserters. 
   On the other hand, our local church has a bulletin board dedicated to the local "heros" from our church & town..who are serving or have recently served in combat.  Does your church have a full "heroes board"?

  I'll welcome a debate with mainliners on the issue..but lets take it to the "religious discussion" forum..

        You do ahead. I'd rather talk Mercury outboards and lever rifles.   
    I understand, those things you might very well have a good understanding of..

[yellowtail3]

These are the folks who call gay people funny bunnies and rump bandits, right? I've seen in right here at GBO, from self-described 'Christians' - and I'll bet a buck, some of them are Baptists. (I can afford the buck)

Sometimes stigmatizing an unsavory practice, helps to persuade one toward a wholesome lifestyle.

I'll remember you said that.[size=78%] [/size]

        You do ahead. I'd rather talk Mercury outboards and lever rifles.   
    I understand, those things you might very well have a good understanding of..

Translation: Ironglow knows that I'm an unbeliever & unskooled, because I don't agree with him.

[ironglow]

YT:
  I thought you wanted to discuss Mercury outboards and lever rifles..  Nevertheless, if you wish..take it to the "religious discussion" forum..

[ultramag44]

Any church, Baptist, Catholic, Lutheran, whatever, should be first & for most concerned with matters of the spirit.

The US government allows a tax exempt status to churches.

Does anyone here really believe WB is first concerned about spiritual matters?  Why should they care who sleeps with who or how God will judge it? What they should worry about (on a personal level) is who they themselves sleep with. If they only sleep and have sex with the person they marry and that person is the opposite gender, they have met biblical requirements.   One can argue (with a good case) that moral decay is eating @ the fabric of our nation. 

I'm a retired soldier of over 20 years service. The funeral of my fallen comrades in arms should not a political forum to get publicity.

I'm not a homophobe. When the office gay guy asked me out, I didn't get upset, I just said, "No thank you."

I would like the IRS to pull WB tax exempt status and make them pay ALL Back taxes due the system.