Chopped 308 barrel accuracy

[Robc10x]

I had posted a while ago about a chopped 308 handi and a couple of folks had asked how it shot, and there was some discussion about barrel length and accuracy. Here's some preliminary results. These are the only two targets I shot to sight in. The second target I just gave it a few up & over and it seemed to be right on for 100 yds. That flier on the second target was me. The rifle has been shortened to 16" and threaded to accept a suppressor (QD mount), and I topped it with a red dot from recommendations received here.   


I'm tickled. I think it can only get better!

[Bugflipper]

Even with the flier that second group is a very good one for 2X.

[petemi]

I have several shorties....16.5 to 18 inches.  I haven't experienced and accuracy loss in any of them.  They're all accurate. Velocity loss, yes in the rifle calibers.  My 18 inch .356/.358 is probably a good example of that.  However, the loads I use more than make up for the 100 or two fps. loss.  I don't see any appreciable velocity loss in my 16.5 inch .357 Maximums and accuracy is MOA.

Pete

[bikerbeans]

rob,
 
Very nice rifle and grouping. 
 
How well does the suppressor work with the supersonic rounds? 
 
BB

[garbhead]

And you did those with factory ammo as listed? Which red-dot did you use?

[Robc10x]

Thanks guys. That was indeed with what you see listed. Note again tho it was 50 meters. Although it's ringing the 200 yard 2'x3' gong all day. I was pleasantly surprised. The suppressor works really well with the supersonic rounds. I plan on using this to kill bambi this year, and wanted to see how it worked. Only difference is a little extra weight on the front end and a giant WOMP when it goes off, but no bang, and a downrange crack for the bullet which bambi won't hear until after it gets there anyway. Shooting them into the backstop at close range will make you giggle. It is interesting to see and hear just how much energy is delivered at the point of impact. Typically you miss that because of the noise. I think it makes a rifle more accurate because you are not bracing for the bang. And subjectively, I think there is slightly less recoil, but again that could be a perception. It makes shooting that much more enjoyable.


BTW, the irony of this setup is not lost on me. It's funny to see the looks at the range from all the tacticool guys - I can just seem them internally trying to figure out why somebody would hang that kind of hardware on a $180 rifle. Makes perfect sense to me!

[Shu]

I like it!! I like shooting subsonics also. I love long heavy for caliber bullets.
 
Nice rig.

[HWB13]

The results look good.  I would have backed up a  little.  I over think things and if you ask my wife can go a lot over board on things.  I would have grouped before installing the can.  then centered it.  installed the can and checked for any POI change.  Don't know anywhere you will be able to use it to shoot Bambi.  The pic show great workmanship and detail.  I just don't like to add to many  variables to a project at once.  That's probably why mine take so long. 

[geezerbiker]

I have to admit I'm bit jealous.  I've always wanted a suppressed rifle but I've never been able to commit that much time and money to getting one.  I think a .357 Max would be a good suppressed rifle with a 250g or so cast bullet at subsonic levels.

Tony

[Lonegun1894]

I know Texas just approved suppressors for hunting game animals, so here is one place, but if you're not a resident, you may not like out non-resident license fees.

[Old Fart]

They made suppressed legal for hunting in Oklahoma last year also.

[FPH]

I know Texas just approved suppressors for hunting game animals, so here is one place, but if you're not a resident, you may not like out non-resident license fees.

What about nuisance animals like hogs?

[SHOOTALL]

Va. is suppressor legal also.

[HWB13]

now I know

[wganz]

According to the old time hunters, a buck can hear a twig snap from you stepping on it at a quarter mile; so, the ~30dB level of a suppressed .308 Win. and the associated supersonic crack should be heard by every buck over in the next county. Also, a buck would have to magical super ninja senses to hear a supersonic round before it got to him anyways.

BTW. Nice setup. 

[SHOOTALL]

I know that was a joke about the buck but I have seen very nice bucks pay no attention to the report of a black powder rifle. To me it is a softer report. My suppressor seems to do the same thing soften the report. I have not hunted with it yet so I have no practical experience with deer and how they react. What I mean by soften is that the sound seems spread out instead of a crack.

[gcrank1]

Ya gotta surround 'em with the echo

[peak98]

Rob,
Have you done anymore accuracy testing at 100 and/or 200 yards? I'd be interested to see how it does at 100yd with subs and 200 with the 168gr SMK's or 168gr AMAX's.

[SHOOTALL]

When you suppress a 308 rifle it can be costly to have a really low report , one where the only noise is the crack from hitting the target. Ammo to meet this standard can sell from 80 to 160 bucks a box of 20. On a 308 with 20 inch bbl I can get groups touching with suppressor installed. A 300 Black out I shoot ( because of lower cost of quiet ammo for reason stated about 308 ammo)  will do close to the same with almost no noise. I think the slower velocity allows the shooter more time to mess up the shot ( finger or hand movement or breathing etc.)as the bullet travels down the barrel. With the 308 traveling faster in the shorter the barrel the less time to muff the shot. Not a 308 but close I had a 708 in an XP-100 , a very accurate gun with a 15 inch bbl.

[petemi]

If you reload, I would think you could roll your own sub-sonic .308s as cheaply as any .308 ammo.  I have never done it,  so I can't talk about powder, fillers, etc., but none of those are more expensive than loading any .308.  The high cost of specialty factory ammo is due to demand.  How many rounds of low velocity .308s is anybody going to sell?

Pete

[hoytcanon]

I have loaded sub loads in .243, .260, 7mm-08, .30/30, .308, 7.62X39, .357 and .44... And they are indeed cheaper than a regular full power load... For the most part these were with H4895 and TB and using cast bullets.

[quasne.inc]

Wyoming will be allowing suppressors for hunting all game starting this fall. 

[SHOOTALL]

I have loaded sub loads in .243, .260, 7mm-08, .30/30, .308, 7.62X39, .357 and .44... And they are indeed cheaper than a regular full power load... For the most part these were with H4895 and TB and using cast bullets.

I have seen the info on these loads but I like jacketed bullets. I have loads for the Black Out but finding bullets and brass has been a challenge. Found some "reworked 223 " that may have been the cause of a broken extractor . But when loading for subsonic the BO is great.
As for the 308 I use supersonic load and they are soft enough that hearing protection is not needed.
If anyone wants to post subsonic loads that would be great and thanks.
But to the op I see little accuracy problems with a short barrel.

[44 Man]

Suppressors are a real boon to hunters for those states that allow it.  Let's face it, we aren't after 'sniper level, no noise' here, just enough suppression that it doesn't hurt our ears to shoot the gun.  And from hanging around single shot pistol hunters all my life I believe that the shorter barrels shoot better than the longer barrels do.  Remington says that with barrels of equal diameter, the shorter pistol barrels are stiffer and less prone to 'whip' than a rifle barrel while the bullet in still traveling down the bore and are thus inherently more accurate.  So assuming that it is done properly, shortening a barrel should produce more accuracy from the gun than the original length.  In real life it would be very hard to prove as the biggest factor in accuracy is the shooter.  Myself, I love my guns to be short and 'Handi'!  44 Man

[gcrank1]

Buying the quality jacketed bullets that are the same, or similar, to those horribly overpriced specialty rounds will be the most 'expensive' part to reloading your own, and compared to the price for 20 that you mention they wont be expensive at all. Building your own is exactly why many of us reload; we can make it way cheaper or make stuff that the factories dont. In fact, for that $80-$160 you mention you can be set up to load hundreds for no more than the cost of two boxes of 20ct.

[SHOOTALL]

Buying the quality jacketed bullets that are the same, or similar, to those horribly overpriced specialty rounds will be the most 'expensive' part to reloading your own, and compared to the price for 20 that you mention they wont be expensive at all. Building your own is exactly why many of us reload; we can make it way cheaper or make stuff that the factories dont. In fact, for that $80-$160 you mention you can be set up to load hundreds for no more than the cost of two boxes of 20ct.

I have reloaded for 40 years and find the 300 BO cost effective and very safe with over the counter powder. The 308 I use for hunting and really don't need a super quiet round though it would be nice to know how to build them. What I see with jacketed bullets is the risk of a stuck bullet. So why bother really as to be silent you are around 1050 fps so either the BO or 308 would have same performance.

[gcrank1]

IMHO you will not stick a bullet that is just under the SOS unless your barrel is a real piece of junk. If you go for way under is where that danger lives.
If anybody has stuck a jacketed bullet at over 900fps please educate me.

[bamaboy13]

I was all about a 300ACC when they came out, but had already started playing around with some 308 subsonic loads. After repeatedly getting outbid by ridiculous bids on the 300s, I re-thought things. Having to buy new dies, brass, etc., and start over, just couldn't be justified. I picked up my 308 and I'm in the process of chopping/threading it.
I like red-dots, but I’m going with a 30mm Tasco Titan in 1.5-6x42
Had a 16" Saiga 308, it's common knowledge that the 21" had more barrel whip and were not as accurate. The 14” POF 308s are just as accurate as a lot of bolt guns.

[SHOOTALL]

I got a 300 BO in a 700 Remington , pure luck walked into a old country "sporting goods shop" that sells more fishing stuff than guns and it was on the rack. Guy said he was having a hard time moving it as he had no ammo and could not get it. That was about three mos. ago.
 So far I have not found good loading data on the 308 .

[gcrank1]

"so far I have not found good loading data on the 308"
What?
Its been around since when and you cant find good loading data and you have 40yrs loading experience?
Sorry, but you have me......confused  .