Chopped 308 barrel accuracy

[SHOOTALL]

maybe I should say trust worthy

[gcrank1]

What do you have for reloading manuals?

[SHOOTALL]

Hornady, Speer, Lee, Nosler ,

[gcrank1]

Please enlighten me; why arent they 'trust worthy'?

[SHOOTALL]

First off they don't list any loads for a 308 win. that are sub sonic. As far as the posted loads only Hornady has had bad listings and had to recall them that I'm aware of.
 You do realize I was looking for sub loads ?

[gcrank1]

I suspected that but you did not specify it in your comments, and I did not want to assume as that can cause untold problems when discussing reloading.
As to making sub-sonic 308 loads in specific, and knowing what .308 dia. projectiles are used in the 300BO and at what velo, it should be a fairly easy extrapolation to make 308 loads that duplicate the 300BO ballistics and have it work. It is a little 'rocket science', but not too much of a stretch. After all, if the launch platform is adequate, the cartridge is only a powder vessel to hold the components with the objective being to propel the projectile.
It may not be 'in the book', but unlike top-end loads the danger of overload is not there and it is nothing new. Im sure I was reading about jacketed low velo loading at least 30yrs. ago as 'specialty loads' and have made them myself for varmints and plinking. Now to be completely forthcoming, I have NOT made them in 308 (never had one), but 30-30 and 30-40Krag and 30-06. I am certain that within 1/2hr. in my shop and stepping out back to the 50yd. range we would have your load.

[SHOOTALL]

What concerns me is the amount of "air" space in the case when reduced loads are made up in the 308. In the 300BO I use pistol powder as the case holds less than some handgun cases do. In fact some of the loads are compressed loads. I guess what I have seen in loads for the 308 don't get the velocity down to subsonic and still have a sound  close to a 22 where the full house loads do the same . I'm guessing that the more pressure the suppressor sees the better it works. I say that because I have a 30 carbine adapter for the 308 and factory 30 carbine loads are louder thru. the suppressor than factory 308 loads.
 A friend has some factory subsonic loads , we have a source near here, they are like 80 bucks for 20. On line they get as high as 160 + for 20. So there may be some unique practice or component that I am not aware of. These loads are quiet you hear the firing pin hit . So  my concern , is there a filler ? is detonation a real concern ?  and will the bullet stabilize and not take out a baffle or 12 ?

[hoytcanon]

It is not wise to assume that light powder loads will not cause excessive pressure. Some powders react badly with too much "void" in the case. It is far safer, when working up a sub-sonic load to use a "bulky" powder like TB. I load 165 Cast in .30/30, .308 and 7.62X39 with TB to achieve sub loads... Mostly just the 7.62 now. There is load data published online for "reduced loads with H4895" (<<< google what is in quotes).

[gcrank1]

Take the Sup. off and shoot your reduced velo loads through paper close up and you will tell if the bullet is going sideways right out of the muzzle.
Do not use a 'wad' (say, the long recommended tuft of Dacron balled up and pushed down on a light powder charge; there is much documentation now of ringed chambers from such), but a filler is a full column of a light, inert substance and has no such effect documented that I am aware of. Fillers are worthy of a study if you are not familiar with them.
Short using a filler with a reduced powder charge to get a sub-sonic velo, load the cartridge into the chamber and elevate the muzzle to settle the charge back to the primer, lower the muzzle slowly to horizontal and fire. Detonation will not be an issue this way (if it ever really would be, seems labs cannot duplicate reports of such, as far as Ive heard).
Picking a powder that will fill the case at least 50% below the base of the bullet will negate the need for even that, but may take you some research/experimentation. OTC canister powders are fine for this, even if the 'fancy, over-priced factory loads' use something else. I suspect you will find the best results with the 'faster' rifle powders and have less unfilled cartridge capacity than if you use the 'shotgun' powders.

[SHOOTALL]

thanks

[sluggo]

...you can load .308 in subsonic with some "fluffy" 5744 or SR4759. The trouble is your not going to have enough energy past 100 yds to kill anything, it'll be like lobbing mortars I would think.

[gcrank1]

The high ballistic coefficient and sectional density bullets will do better than lob, surprisingly better, though not as well as if fired faster if you are going for the ultimate flattest trajectory.
Fact is that the inexpensive handloaded rounds will shoot the same as the over-priced factory if using a similar projectile at a similar velocity, and that makes a lot of sense to me.

[petemi]

I realize this is comparing apples to oranges, but I find it interesting, and I think, with a little trial and error you could do the same with the .308...or just about anything else.  This is about the .32-20....perhaps my favorite caliber.  This is an oldie from Jim Taylor in Gun Week.

Totally Silent Loads:
 These loads are very low pressure. You need to watch for stoppages with these loads. I have never experienced one but it does not mean it could not happen. Accuracy with these loads is on the order of -inch groups at 50 feet. All 3 of these loads are totally silent. All you will hear from the rifle is the hammer fall.
 

Totally Silent Loads Bullet Powder Charge Velocity Lee 95 gr. RN cast 2.5 gr. 2400 491 fps Lee 95 gr. RN cast 4.8 gr. 3031 420 fps #3118 cast 4.8 gr. 3031 432 fps   .

[gcrank1]

Note that those are lead bullets. It is usually said that lead will be about 100-150fps faster than jacketed for a given powder charge (they have less friction); or to put it another way, if you use , say, a Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook load for a given weight lead bullet but substitute a jacketed bullet, expect 100-150fps less velo from the jacketed. In the context of these recent posts, getting just below the speed of sound for your location above sea level will have the beans to get that jacketed bullet out, have a reasonable trajectory and no sonic-crack. The can then will be able to do its job for 'more quiet'.
I would not want to load jacketed bullets of comparable weight in those listed 'Totally Silent Loads' into a rifle barrel. A totally silent load that sticks one that slow may not give you any indication of such other than,'where did that one hit?'. In a more normal load the absence of a proper report would clue you as to its failure to exit. Even with that some people have chambered up and fired another round only to ring a barrel at the obstruction. Im quite sure this is what SHOOTALL has reservations about, and justly so.
The caveat here should be, that when delving into this arena and doing load development, to check the barrel after each shot; easy enough with a Handi that there is no excuse not to.

[bamaboy13]

I had to search for my recipe, I loaded with reddot and used molly coated 180gn seated in backward, bought once fired LC brass full length resized, reamed away primer crimp, drilled out flash hole, and used magnum primers. I loaded these over a year ago and have yet to test any.
Any day now!
Here I'll share some links of the info I found;
http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?p=764727
http://members.shaw.ca/cronhelm/TheLoad.html
http://members.shaw.ca/cronhelm/DevelopSubsonic.html
My plan (already have my mold) is to cast my own 190gn, round nose, gas check, lead bullets

 

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

According to the old time hunters, a buck can hear a twig snap from you stepping on it at a quarter mile; so, the ~30dB level of a suppressed .308 Win. and the associated supersonic crack should be heard by every buck over in the next county. Also, a buck would have to magical super ninja senses to hear a supersonic round before it got to him anyways.

BTW. Nice setup. 

I agree with the old timers...  and moose can hear humans talking from well over a mile, AND can pinpoint the exact spot, walk to it over night, and be gone by morning, leaving the hunter to wonder WHEN the tracks were made...      I personally have called a moose in from over one mile! And that was just using my hands as a horn.

but for me, the suppressors are more for the humans around so you don't disturb them!

I hunt in a area that has a pulp mill, several homes, and a gas station all within a couple miles.
it would be nice to hunt and not disturb them.

[SHOOTALL]

I had to search for my recipe, I loaded with reddot and used molly coated 180gn seated in backward, bought once fired LC brass full length resized, reamed away primer crimp, drilled out flash hole, and used magnum primers. I loaded these over a year ago and have yet to test any.
Any day now!
Here I'll share some links of the info I found;
http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?p=764727
http://members.shaw.ca/cronhelm/TheLoad.html
http://members.shaw.ca/cronhelm/DevelopSubsonic.html
My plan (already have my mold) is to cast my own 190gn, round nose, gas check, lead bullets

 
 
Thanks

[SHOOTALL]

I realize this is comparing apples to oranges, but I find it interesting, and I think, with a little trial and error you could do the same with the .308...or just about anything else.  This is about the .32-20....perhaps my favorite caliber.  This is an oldie from Jim Taylor in Gun Week.

Totally Silent Loads:
 These loads are very low pressure. You need to watch for stoppages with these loads. I have never experienced one but it does not mean it could not happen. Accuracy with these loads is on the order of -inch groups at 50 feet. All 3 of these loads are totally silent. All you will hear from the rifle is the hammer fall.
 

Totally Silent Loads Bullet Powder Charge Velocity Lee 95 gr. RN cast 2.5 gr. 2400 491 fps Lee 95 gr. RN cast 4.8 gr. 3031 420 fps #3118 cast 4.8 gr. 3031 432 fps   .

 
 
Thanks

[SHOOTALL]

According to the old time hunters, a buck can hear a twig snap from you stepping on it at a quarter mile; so, the ~30dB level of a suppressed .308 Win. and the associated supersonic crack should be heard by every buck over in the next county. Also, a buck would have to magical super ninja senses to hear a supersonic round before it got to him anyways.

BTW. Nice setup. 

I agree with the old timers...  and moose can hear humans talking from well over a mile, AND can pinpoint the exact spot, walk to it over night, and be gone by morning, leaving the hunter to wonder WHEN the tracks were made...      I personally have called a moose in from over one mile! And that was just using my hands as a horn.

but for me, the suppressors are more for the humans around so you don't disturb them!

I hunt in a area that has a pulp mill, several homes, and a gas station all within a couple miles.
it would be nice to hunt and not disturb them.

deer hear well no doubt but they have to perceive what is a danger. They often hear and see a farm tractor and ignore them. When I had a diesel pick up I got closer to deer than when in a gas truck. I live in an area with a lot of people and the deer ignore them. It would be hard for a deer to hear a twig snap near a busy city or interstate. So the suppressor might be good in these places.

[gcrank1]

All good info, but then there's my wife; she can just go out and sit behind a pile of brush and the deer will come in and browse or lay down withing 10-15yd. She is not particularly quiet nor does she bag her hunt clothes or use neutral soap. A box of 20ct 30-30's lasts her 10yrs; 1 shot before season to confirm -0- and 1 shot done.
My G-Dad used to whistle 'em in, curious critters that Whitetail are.
I agree that a can would be nice to plink with out back and not have to worry about disturbing my neighbors.

[SHOOTALL]

We have from time to time waved a white cloth and had does come to it.

[petemi]

I've been around whitetails most of my life, and most of them have been around humans all their lives.  I don't do diddly squat except camo.  I've had deer graze to within ten feet of me, stay for over an hour and not be spooked.  In fact, the last yearling buck I had to literally drive away so I could get up and go home.  I've lived with and hunted deer for over 50 years and never found cover scents, lures, etc. to be necessary.  Hunt up wind with camos and you are fine.  You can cough, sneeze, spit and wiggle and not disturb them.  You can even talk to them as I did with the last guy before I stood up and ran him off.  My opinion is that all the gadgets, scents, anti-scents, etc. etc. are just marketing.  The bottom line is hunt upwind, wear camo, know your and the deer's turf and then eat venison.

Pete