Seneca

[pastorp]

Good morning everyone,

I'm just wondering how useful a Seneca in 36cal. Would be as my only muzzleloader. I've hunted with 50,54,&58s but never smaller.

Thanks for the opinions.

[Nobade]

Depends on what you want to do with it. 36 is great for hunting up to something the size of a coyote, I wouldn't go after a deer with one unless you can get it to shoot well with conicals. I find Seneca's (and other TC stocks) to be too straight without enough drop so it is hard to get behind the sights. Depends on how you are built. For trail walks and target shooting a 36 is great, as long as the range is fairly short. They really run out of steam by 100 yards. Cheap to shoot though, don't need much powder and lead.

[necchi]

I don't really get the gist of your question, but the Seneca is a fine rifle.
A friend has one and it's superbly accurate, and will do what a 36 will do.
It might be tough finding parts,,
 
But a little more background of your desires would be helpful.
 
I drive an S10 Chevy, how useful will that be as my only vehicle? 

[pastorp]

I guess if it was my only muzzleloader I would hunt everything with it. Pretty simple to me.

Do I need to make a list? 

[necchi]

No, I'll make one for ya,
Some people hunt
(there is a huge list of game animals, from Grizzly Bear to Ground Squirrels)
(not to mention winged game)
 
Some people would never kill an animal
Some people plink at cans
Some people casually shoot target
Some people are serious competitive target shooters
I am fully involved in the Traditional ML shooting sports from Hunting to Rendezvous, Re-enactment and Sanctioned shoots. How do I know what you do?
 
Will the Seneca be useful for all of the above?  No.
 
Personally I wouldn't use a 36cal anything,, for anything but Grey/Fox Squirrel  or target beyond 50yrds.
 
The Seneca is an out of production model and because of that is becoming rare and in that deserves a place in any gun locker.
 
I surely wouldn't limit myself to a 36cal as my only ML rifle. To start with it's below the minimum caliber for Large game in my state. 2nd the puny 65-70grn round ball get's pushed around a lot with even light breeze, it also has little ability to do more than ring a steel gong past 25yrds and many times won't knock over steel silhouette targets and cuts a tiny hole in paper, this makes the 36cal a poor target rifle.
The Seneca is a neat rifle, I wouldn't mind having one in 36 as a novelty, but I'd soon be changing it over to a 45 or custom 40cal for any practical use.
 

[bubba.50]

for small game, varmints, & plinkin' a 36cal Seneca would be adequate. a 45cal barrel to go with the 36cal would take care of yer needs up to about deer sized animals. luck & have a good'en friend, bubba.

[pastorp]

Thanks bubba, about what I though. 

I honestly don't know why some people try to make things so hard. Necchi, if you pay attention you might know something about the rest of us.    sorry but the old I need more info to answer a simple question just rubs me the wrong way. And there are a few that use it as the standard answer to most questions. Maybe you just over think things. 

Regards,

[45-70.gov]

get the 36 if the price is right


this would be great as a second ML rifle


just get a 50 cal later on  when a deal comes your way


50  cal  renegade [1 to 48 inch spin] is my ''do all''  caliber

[necchi]

Good morning everyone,

I'm just wondering how useful a Seneca in 36cal. Would be as my only muzzleloader. I've hunted with 50,54,&58s but never smaller.

Thanks for the opinions.

And I'm sorry you don't like answers that don't suit your agenda.

[Bugflipper]

An easy way to look at it in game taking terms within a reasonable traditional muzzleloader range. A 32 is like a 22lr. A 36 is like a 22 magnum. A 40 is like a 22 hornet. A 45 is like a 257 roberts.

[45-70.gov]

do you cast your own ??


if not  will OO buckshot be a cheap ammo supply?


do they make a 36 cal  conical??.......weight?

[45-70.gov]

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=380732


go to post #5

[pastorp]

I have cast bullets & balls for pistol, rifle, & muzzleloader for over 40 years. If I buy the 36 I'll just get a mould. I still have a couple of 5 gallon buckets of lead I brought with me from Alaska.

I had though about casting some 30-30 bullets for varmet control but I think the Seneca may be more fun.

I have several other Muzzloaders but have not shot them in years. No black powder available where I lived while in Alaska. Was thinking about just selling them and getting the Seneca and ordering my dream fowler.

Regards,

[pastorp]

Does the difference between 36 & 40 really make that much difference on killing power. Seems that years ago 40 was considered a all around hunting gun. 

[Bugflipper]

The weight difference makes a pretty decent difference in energy.
A 310 ball is 45gr.
A 350 is 65.
A 40 is 95.
At 1500fps the energy comes out as follows according to a calculator.
32-224 ft lbs
36-334
40-449
At 1900fps.
32-360
36-520
40-761
Of coarse prb lose velocity quicker than bullets, the heavier ball is going to retain more energy at further ranges.
In general, a 32 is fine for as far as a fellow can hit a squirrel or rabbit. A 36 will give you the oomph to shoot a fox or raccoon in the body cleanly out to as far as your traditional will allow. A 40 will do the same for bigger varmints like coyote. The range increases with animal size since there is less to miss, so the energy delivered at that range needs to increase.

[JonnyReb]

 Do it Byron sell those closet guns and get what'll get you excited about muzzleloading again. The Senaca in .36 is kinda hard to come across at a fair price and you should snap it up, its a fantastic future trade, investment or you might make it a "till you die" gun.  Get that fowler too,  it'll give you something exquisite to ponder on winter evenings and memorable days shooting or hunting it. You can use roundballs in it for close range big game too. Heck just the studying and planning part makes it worth buying. .  Look forward to hearing what you do.  J

[srussell]

once you get the rifle you can allways have a good smith put a 50 cal. barrel on it. then have best of both worlds

[tacklebury]

When I was living in Tennessee they are big Dan'l Boon fanatics where we were.  They said his rifle was a .36 cal and he used it to hunt everything talked about in his books.  He could throw a double axe into a tree at 20 feet and unsling his gun and shoot the ball where it would split on the rear axe blade.    Guess if it's good enough for ole Dan'l probably work for you ok preach. 

[Bugflipper]

Boone's rifle is claimed to be a .29 cal. Small game rifles were pretty well non existent until the natives were ran off and most of the big game wiped out. It was at the end of the percussion era when little bores became popular for hunting and target in the East. Folks claim his gun was a 29 bore, or a little bigger than a 50. People also claim Lewis and Clarke had tiny rifles for their expedition. Just adds to the legend of folks having nothing and able to overcome hard times. Would invite any of those story tellers to go bear hunting with a 22 short and see how that turns out for em'. 

[tacklebury]

You know it's not something I'd ever even consider, but my buddy's dad, before he died, was driving down the road by Clare near Jay's in MI.  There used to be a bear farm over there and good size boar got out and they put a bounty on it.  His dad had nothing but a lever action .22 in the pickup behind the seat and saw the bear coming home and pulled off to the side and shot and killed it with one shot.  He's in the paper for it and the guy has the skin from it, so I'm pretty sure it's true.  I'd be too worried about wounding it myself. 

[tacklebury]

With the BC of the round ball also, you get about 9" of drop by 100 yards.  Also, with 100 ft/lb energy at 75 yards, it is really making this a 75 yard point blank range for killing deer.  That's IF you start at 1200 fps, which is at the high end I think that most people shoot pure lead balls.
 

[Nobade]

Try about 1900-2000 fps for a 40 cal. ball from a rifle.

[tacklebury]

Yep, must have been thinking pistol speeds or something.  Found this at TC's site and it appears a 50 gr. Load is about 2034, so I redid the calculation with that and it's a good bit better. 
 

 
Little more respectable deer killing numbers in the 1k ft/lb range.  Sorry for the first bad info.    Still appears that with the basic sights it'd max out about 120 yards for drop at point blank range. 

[Nobade]

Yep, don't really want to shoot any game much past 100 yards with balls. Big ones with Forsythe type barrels can easily double that but they're not all that commonly available.

[RamblinMan2]

once you get the rifle you can allways have a good smith put a 50 cal. barrel on it. then have best of both worlds

Seneca has a 13/16 barrel. A little small to rebarrel in .50.....RamblinMan

[nw_hunter]

Good morning everyone,

I'm just wondering how useful a Seneca in 36cal. Would be as my only muzzleloader. I've hunted with 50,54,&58s but never smaller.

Thanks for the opinions.

For hunting in general, I would say not a good choice.
Not enough gun for larger game animals.My first ML was a CVA Mountain rifle. That 1/60 twist, Douglas barrel was a tack driver with RB.It was a 50 cal. I took everything from cottontails to Whitetail with it.Just head shot the rabbits and squirrels with it, and even killed a gobbler. I didn't try for a head shot LOL! one ball through the middle of the breast and he was mine.Very little meat damage. Just a small 50 cal ball sized hole.
One can never own too many ML's and if I had the money to spare, I would prob. own several Cherokee's and Seneca's If I could only have one ML, the cal would be 50.

[eastbank]

i hate to say it but my blue ridge pedersoli rock lock .50 is my to go rifle in out flint lock late season here in pa., PRB with 80grs FFF knocks the stuffing out of deer. eastbank.

[Mike in Virginia]

Here in Virginia, I'd have no problem hunting exclusively with a .36 Seneca.  It's not legal for deer during m/l season, but it is in firearms season.  Go figure.  If you think a .36 caliber round ball won't go all the way through a deer, you are mistaken.  You penetrate both lungs or you hit the heart, a deer is going down for sure and for certain.  I believe it's a caliber that will do it all.  I had one.  What I'd give to  have it back. 
 
 

[nw_hunter]

No doubt it will do it. It just puts limitations on how

[saltydog]

Get a 45 and you will be covered at both ends. The 36 is fun and economical to shoot but too small for most hunting applications.