Buffalo Classic 45-70 Variations?

[flmason]

Hi All,
   Anyone know anything about the barrels on the earlier BC's? The old "Wesson and Harrington" models back when they came without sights?

Had a look at one and it seemed to have very shallow rifling. Not sure if that's microgroove or not?  It looked "Ballard" but I'd swear the lands were only .0001 or .0002 at best. I'd almost be afraid to run a bore brush down that one.

Is that how they all are?

I thought the BC's were supposed to have deep groove rifling?

Would seem to fit with what they were trying to recreate with that model?

[tacklebury]

I think it mainly depends on what year they were produced.  H&R used to use primarily ballard rifling as I understand.  When Marlin bought them and started making barrels they went to the Micro groove and then Remington makes some kind of a variant in between the two. 

[gcrank1]

By my reading of the old catalogs it seems the comments about Ballard rifling, if parsed out, only vaguely applied to the 38-55 'Target Model'. In fact, it is not really said that it is Ballard rifling, only a reference made to the Ballard and the H&R having 'original style' rifling. after the 38-55 was dropped, even that reference disappeared.
Even so, the 45-70's typically shoot cast and jacketed bullets very well, and much rifling depth on modern guns is .002 -.003 deep. The 'old, deep' rifling of the muzzleloading and early cartridge guns is long gone.

[quickdtoo]

http://buffaloclassic.tripod.com/

Beginning in 1871, two members of a family, which would establish a firearms dynasty, cooperated on the design for a series of revolvers destined to change the friearms idustry and create what would become "America's Gunsmith".


 Frank Wesson was well known for his hinged breech and falling block rifles. In Fact, his hinged breech carbine was actually accepted for use as an official secondary arm during the Civil War. His nephew, Gilbert Harrington, was a bright young firearms designer, and was granted a patent for a new mechanism to eject spent cases from revolvers. Together in 1871, they began a company called Wesson & Harrington in Worcester, Massachusetts. This company would continue until 1875 when Frank Wesson sold his interest to William Richardson, creating the Harrington & Richardson Arms Company, one of the most prolific manufacturers of firearms ever to operate in America. The Wesson & Harrington rifles and shotguns of today celebrate this fine tradition in this historic region of firearms manufature.


Tradition, history and American craftsmanship blend to build today's Wesson & Harrington rifles. Frank Wesson & Gilbert Harrington began their enterprise in 1871 and we continue their proud tradition today, building fine long range rifles in the same Massachuesetts county ober a century and quarter later.


The Wesson & Harrington 45-70 Government Buffalo Classic and the 38-55 WCF Target Model are true American classics to their very core. Modeled after the Frank Wesson tip-up rifles which were first made in Worcester, Massachusetts in the 1850's, these modern classic fill the need of the long range cowboy action shooter as well as those who just enjoy shooting these great old cartridges.


Both the Buffalo Classic and the Target Model reflect true 19th century styling, including real color case hardening on the frame and crescent buttplate, plus "one line at a time", hand cut checkering on their American black walnut stocks and forends. No sights are provided on the high polish blue barrels but a dovetail slot for a post or globe style front sight like the Lyman #17 is cut at the muzzle end of the barrel. The area over the chamber is drilled and tapped to accept a peep sight such as the Williams WGRSHR. As these rifles are designed for competition shooting, a number of sight options are available from a wide variety of specialty suppliers. The shooter's taste and style of competition will dictate the appropriate style of sights.


The Buffalo Classic in 45-70 Government has carved out a very competitive position in today's fast growing sport of Cowboy Action Shooting and BPCR shooting. It features a mid weight 32" barrel to get all the velocity possible out of the venerable 45-70 Government cartridge. The 32" barrel length also provides the necessary sighting radious for long range matches.


The Wesson & Harrington Target Model in 38-55 WCF follows the tradition of fine target offerings from the likes of Ballard or Wurfflein in the 1870's. The 38-55 Cartridge traces its roots to the early 1880's when it was developed for target shooting by the Ballard Rifle Company. The Wesson & Harrington Target Model uses a 28" heavy target barrel and origanal style rifling for consistant accuracy. This barrel length was one of the most popular for this caliber when it was introduced. The Target model also includes all steel furniture. A high polish, heat treated steel trigger guard and forend spacer are standard on this rifle and are now available as a factory upgrade to the owners of the Buffalo Classic, through the H&R 1871, Inc, Customer Service Department.


Both Wesson & Harrington rifles feature a level of quality and attention to detail which would have mad the origanal Wesson & Harrington proud to have their names affixed to the action. Additionally, all Wesson & Harrington firearms include a lifetime "no fault" service plan at no charge. This protect the original purchaser from the cost of ordinary repairs during his or her lifetime. Full details are included on the registration form which is packed with every Wesson & Harrington firearm.



The Buffalo Classic Family
 
 
Model CR1871 - Buffalo Classic Rifle
Specifications

 
•Action - Color case hardened, break open, side lever release.

•Safety Mechanism - Patented transfer bar system.

•Barrel - 32" with a 1:20 rifling twist

•Sights - None, dovetail front, barrel drilled and tapped rear.

•Length of Pull - 14" Drop at Comb - 1-3/4" Drop at Heel - 2-5/8"

•Weight - 8 lbs.

•Overall Length - 46"

•Stock - Hand checkered, American Black Walnut with case colored, crescent steel buttplate.

•Forend - Hand checkered, American Black Walnut.

•Ammunition - 45-70 Government.

 
Model CR3855 - Target Model Rifle
Specifications 
•Action - Color case hardened, break open, side lever release.

•Safety Mechanism - Patented transfer bar system.

•Barrel - 28"

•Sights - None, dovetail front, barrel drilled and tapped rear.

•Length of Pull - 14" Drop at Comb - 1-3/4" Drop at Heel - 2-5/8"

•Weight - 7-1/2 lbs.

•Overall Length - 42"

•Stock - Hand checkered, American Black Walnut with case colored, crescent steel buttplate.

•Forend - Hand checkered, American Black Walnut.

•Ammunition - 38-55 Win.

 
All Wesson & Harrinton models are 100% American made in Gardner, Worcester county, Massachusetts.
We believe Frank Wesson and Gilbert Harrington would be as proud of these firearms
as the ones they built here over one hundred and twenty five years ago.
 
Would you like to see a product list and what dealer is carrying the Buffalo Classic, H&R or NEF lines?
Internet GUN Catalog
Unlimited Outdoors

Wesson & Harrington
60 Industrial Rowe, Gardner, Massachusetts, 01440

 

[flmason]

By my reading of the old catalogs it seems the comments about Ballard rifling, if parsed out, only vaguely applied to the 38-55 'Target Model'. In fact, it is not really said that it is Ballard rifling, only a reference made to the Ballard and the H&R having 'original style' rifling. after the 38-55 was dropped, even that reference disappeared.
Even so, the 45-70's typically shoot cast and jacketed bullets very well, and much rifling depth on modern guns is .002 -.003 deep. The 'old, deep' rifling of the muzzleloading and early cartridge guns is long gone.

Hmm... Yes, some reading I've done leads me to believe that shallow button rifling might be what I'm looking at. There just didn't seem to be enough lands and grooves to call in "microgroove" at least not like that stuff in an old Jenning J-22 or Marlin Model 60.

It had this sort of depth, not nearly so many.

http://www.gunslot.com/files/gunslot/imagecache/page/images/71939.jpg

But I'm not certain the above pic is technically "microgroove" either.

All I can say is that it seems awfully shallow compared to guns I owned decades ago. Almost on the verge of "worn out" except this particular gun appears to be unfired. And well my Handi is unfired.

So to my eyes both seem rather shallow rifling. Which worries more from a longity and resistance to cleaning abuse issue than an accuracy one.

I think everyone in here has proven that bullet fit pretty much solves most blatant accuracy issues. So not worried about the "microgroove doesn't shoot cast" thing so much as it just looks... "incorrect" or "unfinished" to my eyes.

I'm kind of wondering if something like paper patching would just flat out ruin the edges.

[LONGTOM]

 I can tell you that all your worries are for nothing.
I have some that has well over 1000 rounds through them and they still shoot better then I can hold them.
You will never wear one out by cleaning unless you use an unsupported rod.
I use bore snakes to clean all my guns and have never had a problem with wear.
I know of many BCs that are loaded with paper patched bullets used in competition and they don't seem to have any more wear then one shot with standard bullets of either lead or jacketed.
Take it out and shoot it with whatever is your fancy and stop worrying.
Enjoy it!!!
 
LONGTOM

[gcrank1]

22LR barrels have been documented to shoot 10's of thousands of rounds with those lubed lead bullets, and the old schuetzen rifles too if the powder fouling wasnt left in them to rot. Jacketed bullets and high throat launch temps can wreck a barrel in a few thousand rounds so take your choice.