Indian motorcycle ad.

[Anna]

Now this sponsor has a lot of class I wonder how GBO was able to get these guys?
My Dark Horse didnt come with the 111 when I bought mine this engine was still in the planning
stage or that's what I was told. But Indian was wanting to expand its line useing this engine as being
proprietary to the name instead of a Victory knock off with different cosmetics.
Its still about the frame, Indian has the lowest center of gravity out there and always has.
That's always been the motive for company's trying to buy Indian besides its name.
I've had two Harley's in the past and they could not hold up to an Indian as far as ride.
At high speeds my Indian corners like a sports car with little effort leaving the Harley's slowing down
to make the curve. It can't outrun them but it even corners better than the cafe racers or the sports
bikes. Their center of gravity is way to high and they become unstable unless you know what your
doing on them. And that usually means knee dragging something I dont wish to try.

[yellowtail3]

At high speeds my Indian corners like a sports car with little effort leaving the Harley's slowing down
to make the curve. It can't outrun them but it even corners better than the cafe racers or the sports
bikes. Their center of gravity is way to high and they become unstable unless you know what your
doing on them.

Too bad you're not closer, we could go for a ride. I'd like to try out an Indian. Low CG is nice, esp for short peeps - no names mentioned! On the idea of an Indian cornering better than a sport bike... that would be something to sort out. I'd let you pick the road or closed course - track day!! - and we could test your theory. I'll be riding a ten year-old first-generation FZ1, which isn't really a sport bike. If there are any long straights, I'll give you a healthy head start.

And that usually means knee dragging something I dont wish to try.

Clearly, you didn't grow up watching King Kenny (Roberts) do his thang in GP racing...

[mauser98us]

Thought Indian took a dump when they moved out of Gilroy, Calif.My dad was an old Indian guy Chiefs and Scouts of the 40's vintage. They were fun to ride.

[Sourdough]

When I was small my Dad had an Indian Scout.  Our landlord had a Chief.  He and Dad would go riding on weekends.  I always liked Indians, thought I might like to have one at one time.

[Dee]

I heard it would take someone without a family, and a good job to afford these new Polaris Indians. The new Indian Chief Classic starts at $26,500.00, and goes up to $37,900.00, so if they beat Harley on the ride, they also win on the ridiculous pricing, and that ain't easy to do.
As far as out-handling a sport bike, I would have to see it to believe it. If it were true, they'd be racing Indians instead.

[Conan The Librarian]

Buddy at work just upgraded to a higher price point Harley. I cannot believe what he paid for that thing. Lots of Haleys here in minnesota. Low miles is the rule. Not unusual to see a thirty year old goldwing with under thirty thousand miles on it. There does not appear to be any old harleys here. Its an arms race to get the latest and greatest.

About the handling, a lot has to do with rider skill.

[Oldshooter]

Harleys these days are like fishing lures at wally world, mostly designed to catch buyers!

[ChungDoQuan]

I'll stick to my 10 year old Moto Guzzi--- who also has a new cruiser model out these days.

[Dee]

I see Honda Goldwings with over 200,000 miles on them at bike ralleys, and Harleys with less than 2,000 miles on them at the local Harley shop. HOWEVER! Honda Goldwing is more expensive than most Harleys, and the riders that buy the Goldwings "ride them", and came over from Harley. The Harley riders seem to have bought the Harley in many cases cause their buddy bought one. Most of these new Harley riders don't even know how to change the oil, and don't seem to want to learn. They are "weekend bikers" with hundreds of dollars in leather, thousands in a Harley, and ride from bar to bar. You see'em around for a few weeks, or months, wearin "only" Harley shirts, talkin about riddin "only an American made Harley" the "Harley mystic", getting even the most minor service done at the "Harley Shop", and then they disappear.
I personally watched the local Harley Shop take two weeks to put a clutch in a 2010 Fatboy with 6,000 miles, then take the bike back in three times to stop oil leaks in less than 2 hours, with a young friend of mine's bike. They've convined my young friend that he can run this bike 90,000 to 100,000 miles without any engine work. There are a lot of Harleys around here, they out sell everyone else, but most are very low miles, and you mostly see them around town. No one has better marketing skills than Harley
I started checkin around on Goldwing pricing, and found I just can't justify one considering I'm riddin a very low milage C109RT Boulevard that will last just as long mileage wise.

[Dee]

I would say that the Moto Guzzi has everyone on looks. It most certainly is the oddest lookin one out there. The rest of the Moto Guzzi attributes are otherwise a mystery to me, that will no doubt last to the end of my bike ridding career. Ever how long that will be.

[ChungDoQuan]

I don't doubt that some cruiser riders can pass some sportbike riders. There's a guy on the WildGoose forum that swears he passes sport bikes in the mountains on his Harley Sportster, and I believe him. BUT, he's probably riding that Sporty to within 90% of the bike's capability, and passing GSXR and FZ, etc. riders that are doing maybe 50% of their bikes' capacity--- he never sees the better riders on the sport bikes that are out in front of him and pulling away all the time. I have passed other riders in the curves on mine, usually accidentally overtaking them--- Guzzis DO handle! I don't have any delusions of being able to stay with the really fast riders, though.

[Anna]

I don't know why Polaris is posting those prices I paid as much for my Indian as you would any
comparable Harley. As far as handling like anything else that would depend on the user.
Indian must be doing something right this time around where I bought my bike people were lined
up to trade in their Harley's for an Indian. Polaris makes good stuff and has a good reputation.
But the Victory's hadn't established a name for themselves yet like Harley's and Indian's had.
Americans are big on tradition and a lot of Harley riders were already displaying the Ameican Indian
motif in the clothes they wear and the paint schemes on their bikes.
Indian is all that by itself, cudos to Polaris for seeing that buying Indian was a good decision for them
to make.     

[Dee]

Apparently your right on the quality Anna. The Victory Dealer in McKinney Tx, just down the road keeps it's tradins for sale (unlike Harley), and 99% of ALL the tradins there are some really nice Harley Davidsons. I haven't stopped in a while to look so don't know if they have any Indians.
I ride a bike that will hang with just about anything out there on the road, but I am not gonna take on a sport bike in the curves. I'm too old, and have a stronger sense of what mortality is actually about.

[guzzijohn]

Indian has some serious backing and R&D this time around. It will be very interesting to follow. Moto Guzzis are an acquired taste for most people. A common comment by a first time rider is something like this: "I hated it the first 50 miles and was in total love at the end of next 100 miles." But yes they handle way beyond what they look like they should. Their quality control and fit and finish are now as good as any bike company and better than most since Piaggio took MG over. My 2011 Norge model is smooth, fast and handles beyond what one would think considering it's size. My 75 T-3 model has over 100K on it and I would not hesitate to jump on it tomorrow and head out cross country. They do however need to seriously expand their dealer network. You can tell by my handle that I might be a bias toward these great bikes.
GuzziJohn

[Conan The Librarian]

Dee:
 
It's like that around here with Hardly-Abelson. The guy who just upgraded his Harley has a neighbor Harley rider who came over and asked him how to check the tire pressure. This was a fifty-something old man.
 
Related to that, the guy with the new H-D cannot add air to his rear tire at most gas stations that have compressed air. The rear disks are in the way and he can't get at the fitting. That's amazing. This guy does a lot of his own car maintenance, so he's no dummy when it comes to mechanical things.
 
For me, parts network and turnaround time for service was everything when I was riding. Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, and Suzuki had a lot of advantages in those regards.

[yellowtail3]

I love motorcycle threads - they're much more fun than polytics.


I'd like to ride a Harley, haven't been on one since Jimmy Carter was president. They're a heck of a success story. Buying a Harley gets you a certain club membership, as much as a motorcycle.


Guzzis are entertaining, the way they tilt as you blip the throttle...

[Conan The Librarian]

I seem to recall that 600cc motorcyle popularity was an artifact of Ronald Reagan's presidency, when he put a tarriff or similar cost penalty on foreign bikes exceeding 600cc. That was done to protect Harley Davidson, aka Government Motors, who no longer "owned" the big displacement motorcycle market. It didn't work. What really worked was a team of sharp economists and marketing pros that crafted a panache for H-D that appealed to the 50-70 male age demographic. Lots of disposable money for luxury goods. So the old image of the H-D rider as some kind of a rebel has been replaced by the image of the aging conformist.

[yellowtail3]

I seem to recall that 600cc motorcyle popularity was an artifact of Ronald Reagan's presidency, when he put a tarriff or similar cost penalty on foreign bikes exceeding 600cc. That was done to protect Harley Davidson, aka Government Motors, who no longer "owned" the big displacement motorcycle market. It didn't work. What really worked was a team of sharp economists and marketing pros that crafted a panache for H-D that appealed to the 50-70 male age demographic. Lots of disposable money for luxury goods. So the old image of the H-D rider as some kind of a rebel has been replaced by the image of the aging conformist.

Pretty close, Conan! The tariff was on everything over 700cc ... guess Harley needed LOTS of handicapp, since their smallest engine at that time was 1000cc. I recall that the Japanese companies quickly released de-bored 700cc versions of what were 750s - GS750 became the GS700, KZ750 ~KZ700, and Honda's 750 Interceptor became a 700 Interceptor. Shortly after, the liquid-cooled inline 600s came out in wake of the Ninja 900. That was when bikes got really specialized & segmented - sport bike, cruiser/Harley imitation, and tourer - and the good ol' UJM disappeared until the mid-nineties when Suzuki happy brought it back in the form of the Bandit 1200.

On Harley riders... yeah... I remember Harley riders of the 70s that seemed to be the outlaw types in central TX... everyone I knew was riding CBs, KZs, and Kawasaki triples. Harleys were vibratory dogs that required a tech rep if you wanted to ride it beyond the Travis County border. Then came the gov't tariff, Harley built the Evo motor (a better engineered version of their archaic V-twin) and started marketing to yuppies... fifty-dollar t-shirts and whatnot... and Harley was reborn. They've got one heck of a brand.

[Conan The Librarian]

Thanks YellowTail I forgot those details.
 
That was my experience with them.I put 120k miles on a Honda CB550F in three years of living on the road. No problems except a couple of flat tires and some blown fuses.
 
A common prank at the time was to put a couple of nuts and bolts, and a bit of oil under a Harley engine while the bike was parked. Drove the owners nuts because they were always looking for things like that during the AMF years. Bronson rocks just weren't sufficient to keep those old hogs on the road.
 
The 70s vintage Harleys were bad, but the late 60s vintage BSAs were the worst. Talk about quirky! They had horizontally split cases, so you wouldn't expect a lot of oil leaks, but they leaked a lot because the cases were porous. Between that and their legendary horrible electronics and primitive brakes, it's a wonder somebody like Honda didn't come along earlier.
 
I met a lot of Honda riders that had mucho miles on their bikes. That was the first generation of people who could realistically plan a coast to coast trip on a motorcycle without expecting a lot of break downs.
 
BMWs and Guzzis of the time were about what they are today: first rate. Something to be coveted. I just couldn't afford one.
 
One of the most heartbreaking mechanical things I've ever seen was when I went to prepare a new BMW R90S for sale and things did not look right. On closer inspection, the crankcase was full of sea water. It had taken a bath during shipment. A total loss.

[Conan The Librarian]

Here's the coolest motorcycle race I know of. No bikes newer than 1930 allowed.
 
http://www.motorcyclecannonball.com/

[mauser98us]

Must be an old timer. Riding used to be an adventure. Ala when you left the house,you did not know if you were pushing it back or riding it.Talking bout the BSA/Triumph/Royal Enfield/Velocette days.Don't like this yuppie era,it's why I no longer ride. I did have a Guzzi Le mons. Like riding a rocket ship on rails.Had all the Harley and Indian too.At least a guy could work on them. Just like buying a vintage british sporty car,ya better be a darn good mechanic.This was part of the price of admission.

[Oldshooter]

Had a 73 super glide Harley , had leather bags and when I went on the road at least one of the bags was ful of quart oil cans. it used near as much oil as it did gas. It was AMF brand. My friends made me ride in the back cause stuff usually fell off of it. I loved it anyway! Heck it was a Harley!

[FPH]

I have carried more Harleys home in the back of a P/U than I ever road.  Same goes for BSAs.

[Conan The Librarian]

I lived with some Harley mechanics. Back then, it was common practice to get clear title to a set of H-D engine cases, and then use that as proof so you could buy aftermarket engine components that would be legal. In other words, the entire engine was made by somebody other than H-D.
 
Occasionally you would encounter an old 45 trike. Interesting engines those 45s. I think they would run on a mixture of dead rats and kerosene. Octane requirement was around 50 or so.
 
About that time, 1974 I think, California had some stricter noise laws that applied to motorcycles. The new Electra Glide at the time would not pass that test even if the engine was off and the bike was coasting.

[yellowtail3]

Just like buying a vintage british sporty car,ya better be a darn good mechanic.This was part of the price of admission.

My Dad told me that one of the good things about his MG, was that it kept cobwebs out of his toolbox. I remember watching him mess with Weber SD carbs when I was just a little tyke...

My friends made me ride in the back cause stuff usually fell off of it. I loved it anyway! Heck it was a Harley!

That's funny

I have carried more Harleys home in the back of a P/U than I ever road.  Same goes for BSAs.

That's mean

About that time, 1974 I think, California had some stricter noise laws that applied to motorcycles. The new Electra Glide at the time would not pass that test even if the engine was off and the bike was coasting.

That's even meaner!

[mauser98us]

Lucas, Prince of darkness.LOL 

[Conan The Librarian]

Mauser98us:
 
That's actually the biggest compliment there is for Lucas. They were much worse than just having bad lights. Everything was bad. I didn't think it was possible for a rectifier to be so quirky as a Lucas model, but by golly they figured out how to make them quirky and unreliable.
 
Aside from electronics, the carburetors were a bad joke too. I remember the starting drills that were needed to get the things started. They weren't too bad here, but I think they were designed to be most diabolical in a damp climate like England.
 
Those British bikes were also designed with a special vibration algorithm to ensure that as soon as you fixed one thing, something else would break. You could really count on that.
 
The exception was the Norton 750 Commando. Heck of a fine bike. I particularly liked the Dunstall cafe customized bikes. Had some quirks, but overall decent for the time.

[mauser98us]

Or  Amal,short for Aw my aching legs.That's funny right there.   Trust me, I suffered all the british bike woes. From electrical,carbs and the motor needs rebuild after 5000 miles.All in all, they sure were pretty.At least you could admire them in the driveway when they did not run.

[Conan The Librarian]

I used to work on them. I secretly thought that I got to ride them more than the owners did.
 
I remember when I was first learning to work on them and needed tools that I didn't already have. I'd be reading the procedure for doing something and they'd specify something like needing a 13/64" wrench, imperial. I'm surprised I'm not bald because I probably scratched my head more from those manuals than everything else put together.
 
Just getting a good set of wrenches was a challenge because although I could get 13/64 imperial wrench, they were usually a little too loose or a little too tight. I finally ended up with a collection of odd sized metric and US wrenches that fit correctly. I just knew which one to use on sight.
 
Best bikes I knew of the pre-Honda era was the BMW R65. A true classic. Indestructible too. Unbelievably reliable. I don't think I've ever met a mechanic that had to repair the bottom end of one of those.
 

[mauser98us]

All the wrenches,sockets both whitworth and BSF,were availible from snap-on @ decent prices I got them all.