"Crushing" shoulders when seating bullets

[Land_Owner]

I sized, primed, powdered and seated bullets in 30 x 223 Rem. cases.  While seating the 60 gr. boattailed Nosler Partitions in chamfered case necks, I noted the shoulder is now "set back", not concentric, and the slightly one-side "bulge" in the case shoulder is difficult to chamber.  What causes this?

I have raised the seating stem to create a longer C.O.L., but that is about all.  The die is not one to make asymmetric, set back, and bulged shoulder cases.

[Old Syko]

Just curious.  Are you using federal .223 brass?

[Land_Owner]

No. 

The cases that bulged are WCC, LC, PMC, Winchester, and Hornady. 

Not every case bulged.  Cases that did not bulge included RP, TZZ, PMC, Hornady, Winchester, PMC, WCC, and FC.

[Old Syko]

As I said, was just curious if you got a hold of some of the poor alloyed junk they put out some time ago.  Sounds like your die body is adjusted down too far, brass is of different lengths, or you are using an expander ball that is too small.  Also sounds like you're running some sort of an experiment if you're loading that many different headstamps of varying capacities at the same time.   

[Land_Owner]

I sort by case weight.  The "Bell" shaped curve according to case weight is quite good.  Once cases are fire formed to the bull barrel Handi-rifle chamber, what does it matter except case capacity?  I am getting excellent results with the same load in a broad spectrum of cases.

I will check for case length, die body too low, expander ball too small and report my findings.

[mechanic]

Some...not all of the mil spec brass that I have is thicker than the rest.  I have an older set of dies that I turned the expander ball down a bit on to allow for it, and still have a few that "just don't do right".
Ben

[mauser98us]

You need to do this different. If you have sized your brass correctly,when ready to load, screw the die to the shell holder , then back off half a turn. Leave the lock ring slightly loose. Insert bullet with the die  slightly loose so it can center on the round. Seat bullet, then lock down the lock ring.When you get to the COL you need ,lock it down.Should be coencentric at this point with out distorting the shoulder.

[Dee]

Once the seating depth is to the cannelure, then a slight tap of the case-mouth against the seating shoulder in the die is all that is required, IF one is using a bullet with a cannelure. If not the seating depth is all that is needed. A "good bevel" with a chamfering tool to the inside of the case mouth will cure this. I put mine in a cordless drill to speed things up, and have never had this problem. The expander ball in the resizing, decapping die could be too small, but that is not likely
Try my method on the chamfering with a little more zeal, and I think the problem will go away.

[Larry L]

I'm assuming you're crimping with the bullet seat die. If you don't trim every time using that style of crimping, you're going to have troubles with uneven lengths and uneven crimping pressures which can shove the shoulder back like you are experiencing. Might consider getting a Lee Factory Crimp Die as it doesn't matter what the case length is. It has a collet inside that squeezes the crimp rather than rolling it over like a bullet seat die.

[squirrelslayer]

Larry is on track. Sounds like you're simply crushing your cases due to inconstant case lengths. Doesn't matter who the heck makes the brass or what your seat depth is. Simply got your die too low brother. Check your case lengths and trim.

[theratdog]

i had the same problem bullet seating die set wrong shoulder hitting in side the die .screw in die farther back off bullet adjustment.mine works good now. i had to pull quite a few bullets

[Lloyd Smale]

had the same problem loading some new 257 wbys a few months back. It was brand new brass that i had ran thorough my sizer die and was seating bullets on. What cured it for me was that i realized i hadnt champered the inside of the neck. Figured it was new brass and i could get away without doing it. Champered them all and the problem went away.

[SHOOTALL]

I have had that problem with crushed shoulders. When it first happened years ago I got a lesson in making sure all cases were the same length. I had the luck of picking a short case to set up the seating/crimp die ( yea I don't seat and crimp at the same time anymore) and then crushing the longer cases. The thicker case was another lesson , standard cases can do the same thing if to much crimp is applied while seating ( stem not in correct relation to crimp ring in die) .
 If shooting in a single shot break open gun why crimp ? try your rounds with out one and see if problem goes away.
 Then there is the possibility the dia of the bullet you are using is a bit large ?
 or the expander is either small or dragging in use lube the inside of the necks, You can hardly feel a sticky one on such small necks.

[gypsyman]

Does sound like a case lenght problem. Pretty much a long shot, but you might want to make sure your seating/crimping die is clean on the inside. Wouldn't think a build up of oil/crud would only affect some brands and not the other, but . Your not shooting cast bullets, but a possibility of sizing lube build up. I've had that problem if I didn't clean bullet lube out of some of my pistol calibers. So now I've got into the habit of always tearing apart my dies and making sure their clean. gypsyman

[44 Man]

Yup, sounds to me that your 'seating/crimp' die is screwed down to far and the longer brass is slightly buckling.  I was blessed (or not!) in that my Handi 7-08 has a minimum spec chamber.  Factory loads chambered and fired fine but my sized 'once fired' brass that I had bought would not chamber after sizing.  I had to grind a bit off the bottom of the sizing die so I could just 'bump' the shoulder back a little.  Problem solved.  Surprisingly, my Winchester M70 30-06 also came with a very tight chamber that I had to slightly shorten my RCBS sizing die for the same thing.  All guns are different so we just have to adapt.  Hope trimming your brass and moving the crimp takes care of your problem.  44 Man

[Land_Owner]

Cases have grown a bit!  Has it been that long that I have been making straight walled handgun cases that I have forgotten the basics of bottle necked case length uniforming?  I took out the RCBS® Trim Pro® Manual Case Trimmer Kit and went to work cutting the (up to) 18 thousandths to standard length on 200 bottle neck cases.

The Jury is still Out on the other errors, i.e. die body too deeply seated, crimping before complete runup, case neck sizing button too narrow (oops, checked this last night...button is 0.220"), etc.

[Ranger99]

you may still want to go with the
lee factory crimp as previously discussed.
some don't like it , but i love mine.
i bought the die for all the rcbs and redding
die sets i have.
good luck

[SHOOTALL]

I like the Redding crimp die , have used them for over 20 years with good results.

[BBF]

I stopped champfering  of the neck because it is a handheld operation and I don't think I am  consistant enough from one case to the next. It may not make much if any difference and it is  time consuming.
I use the Lee Universal Expander tool and flare the neck just enough that a FB bullet sits unsupported on the case. Once the bullet is seated I use the LEE Factory Crimp to squeeze the neck gently back against the bullet or slightly into the crimp groove..

[Flynmoose]

I had a problem with consistency when beveling the mouth of cases. I bought a Sinclair hand crank chamfering tool. I hold the brass up to the cutter, as straight as I can, and give the crank two revolutions. That has solved my chamfering problem and added another cool tool to my loading room.
FM

[BBF]

I suppose a drill press would make it real accurate.

[SHOOTALL]

I am having trouble understanding the problem I trim to length then chamfer  in and out . Barley enough to break the edge not remove a lot of brass. Why would it be necessary to remove enough brass to be inconsistent ? All you need to accomplish is to allow the bullet to ease into the case and the mouth of the case into the crimp die with out hanging and deforming the brass or defacing the bullet.

[Lloyd Smale]

got to agree. Seems pretty anal to me. Ive been doing it for years and never saw where it effected accuracy.

I am having trouble understanding the problem I trim to length then chamfer  in and out . Barley enough to break the edge not remove a lot of brass. Why would it be necessary to remove enough brass to be inconsistent ? All you need to accomplish is to allow the bullet to ease into the case and the mouth of the case into the crimp die with out hanging and deforming the brass or defacing the bullet.

[FPH]

I trim and chamfer off as little as possible (maybe 2 turns of the tool).  I've never had a problem with the multiple calibers I've reloaded......including .223

[shot1]

Your problem is either your brass is too think in the neck of the case or your expander ball in the die is too small. Most likely it is the expander ball is too small. If the neck is sized too small in diameter then all the chamfering etc. in the world will not cure your problem. You can't put a square peg in a round hole as the saying goes. If the neck is sized too small then when the bullet is seated it has to expand that neck too much for the bullet to fit thus it shoves down on the shoulder and causes it to bulge. It depends on what make of die you have. If you can remove the expander ball from your die and have another 30 cal. die that you can swap out expander balls give it a try.

[Land_Owner]

Seriously have to tell and ask.  The button is 0.220" diameter.  The Nosler Partition is 0.224" diameter.  Is 0.004" of "interference fit" too much? 

I would not think so...there has to be some interference fit in order to grip the bullet.

[shot1]

Measure the inside of the case neck. The brass will spring back sometimes after the ball is pulled through. Also could you somehow be catching the edge of the bullet on the edge of the case mouth during seating?

[SHOOTALL]

The bullet you mentioned using is beveled and should start easy . It sounds like your case is to long or you die is either adjusted wrong or improper in some way. What I find with a bullet to tight is one side of the case neck is ripped lose and folded down like an accordion with the bullet seated and often times with the bullet cut also. When the case is to long or the die is out of adjustment I get deformed shoulders . Most of the time the case is to long for how the die was set up. In most all the times I have had a problem I had not trimmed cases and some how chose the shortest to set the die then loaded a long case crushing it down deforming the case. Often times the difference in case length is not apparent to the naked eye. 
 This is why I always trim bottle neck cases , always seat bullets and crimp in separate operations . And for the life of me I don't know how it happens but every now and then a long case gets by and I crush one 

[theratdog]

i have never had a boatail bullet push the neck back .still i cut the sharp inside edge of the mouth with a counter sink works every time. your die is out adjustment.