The term "Leftist"

[Anna]

Anymore, it's anybody even slightly left of the wack-job T partiers (What's IN that Tea?) or fascists, including normal Republicans. Democrats are centrists. True Liberals are left of the Democrats. Socialists are left of Liberals and Communists are left of Socialists.

CDQ you are a Maoist communist I don't understand why you conceal that fact. But I will give credit
where credit is due you are not CS about your views claiming to be something else.
Remember I'm half Egyptian and who do you think was in charge of Egypt for a very long time?
Oh I enjoyed the American dream but being a rug rat I spent much of my life in other country's.
I met, lived among, knew, and was friends with real Soviets not this watered down circus called
socialism so you were right I am not a liberal. I've seen your side and your kind up close on certain
borders that I'm sure that you know where. I've heard it before CDQ and by the things you say its
textbook. Your only in it for socialism because that's as close as you can get to your own way in
this country at least for now. Save it for people who don't know any better you and Hillary have a
lot in common. The big differences between us now is I ran headlong into this carpenter named
Jesus one day. He opened my eyes to the truth and I had one hell of a time getting into Poland
before the fall and facing my family once more. Anna that was so stupid of you, yes it was.

I was educated to reeducate but all the while it was me who was the fool they were very good at
brainwashing willing liberals to their way of thinking. Communism in this country is still in its infancy
and it goes by the name of the Democrat party. All else will not matter and will be cast aside eventually for the real thing. If I were still that person you and I would have some real issues
on exactly which form of that type of government is acceptable. It will eventually catch up with
China you can't have your cake and eat it too. I know, we tried and I have been in on the
interrogations of many of your kind who were caught poking around where they shouldn't have
been. And they all talked like you stirring up trouble in what ever country they were in. 
Albagrushka kenoskia da comrade.
   
 

[mcwoodduck]

Anna,
What QDC does not understand is that to political spectrum is
Communist,  Progressive, Fascism, Socialsit, Liberal, Centrist,                   (True Center )  Republicans,        Tea Party   Conservitives   
What QDC says he wants is not what those people stand for.  He says he wants equality and that merit should  result in promotion and nothing else should matter, and yet they want to promote people based on race or other factor.  And some how Magic will apear and make everyone work and work hard when there are no incentives to do so.  Not sure if it is that evil Star Trek and the "we don't use money we work for the betterment of society crap that has never worked in human history and almost killed all the Pilgrams.  Their change to pure capitalism is what saved them and made their colonly thrive, after Socialism killed over 1/3 of them.
   

[Anna]

You said it better than I mcwoodduck. Stupid liberal kids messing with socialism believing its a
better system like i did have a thing to learn. I haven't hid what I once was I can't say the same
for progressives in what they think they want to become.
I dunno, maybe Jesus wants me to account what I once was and how I changed in order to warn
people about what they are getting into. We, and I wasn't alone never renounced anything we were
under the illusion that we were going to change things here for the better.
How stupid was that? Anymore than what we see going on here now. Pretty stupid after I look
back after seeing the light. Socialism is communism plain and simple its only a palatable word for
the same thing used to fool the ignorant. Where later even it is tossed out for the real thing.
Progressive is a good name for these people, it starts out as something else then progresses into
what it really is. Listen to what they say and how they say it then connect the dots.
They have been doing this in one form or another for nearly 100 years now. Liberal is only the modernized version manifested by useful idiots as always.

[Oldshooter]

What is simply amazing is the fact that it all has been tried over and over and always fails. It only lasts as long as dictators and armed suppresion can keep it going. Young  people think they invented sex and communism and no one has ever heard of or tried it before. Dont they teach History anymore?

[Anna]

Yes it fails but they will always come back with a different approach under a different name.
Its why liberals change their name as what they are every few years.
Our system was bound by a set of rules granting freedoms called the Constitution.
Our trouble started when we ignored these rules and allowed special people to get away with it
instead of enforcing those rules. So what have we learned anymore than what the communist have?
But they keep trying with new faces and new names where we do nothing to return it to what it once was. Our people have to understand that freedom is earned and is not just a birthright.
Communism just takes over in the absence of freedom which is what happens when we ignore this
fact. 

[mcwoodduck]

The great lie about Socialism and then Communism is that it has not gone far enough.
The Soviet Union and China Exported it around the world but people wanted to be free and it was stopped before enslaving the whole world.  The great lie is that Communism/ Socialism wil work once it is global and everyone accepts it as the way and society will no longer have wants but will meet the needs and you will do what you do best to servie society.  Somehow when Socialism is talked about everyone thinks of themself as the Leader, the Movie Star, or some great thinker that is working on the perfect novel at the coffee shop and not the Janator at the slaughter house scooping up the beef noses for the Dog food plant.  Or cleaning out the holding pens knee deep in fertilizer. 

[ChungDoQuan]

What you're ignoring is the fact that it has ALWAYS sucked to be among the poor in capitalist countries. Where do y'all think Socialism comes from? Historically, it has always come from the most capitalistic countries, after the peasants revolt! Capitalism is automatically a two class system: the rich and everyone else. Y'all do not seem to grasp that that means EVERYONE else, including YOU. Statistically, as well as realistically, there is no way anyone on this board is ever going to enter the top 1%. There is too big a gap to jump across, and that gap gets wider every day, making it even less likely. The top 1% siphon money off the masses, with fake controversies ranging from gay marriage to wars they use to keep the masses fighting each other over trivial garbage while the money keeps leaving. Y'all talk about the 47%--- they are the 47% that are in poverty, fighting to get into the middle class, which is shrinking. It's not shrinking because more of the middle class is entering the 1%; it's shrinking because more of the middle class is entering that 47% at the bottom!

 Many of you claim to be Christians, claim to worship Jesus--- from your diatribes on this board, I can see that that is false: you worship the capitalists.A person can SAY anything; it's what they DO that says what they are, and, you are not Christians. You're not even capitalists--- you just WANT to be.

Meanwhile, you kowtow to big money interests and grovel like dogs, hoping they'll throw you scraps when they're done--- that's what "trickle down economics" is, living on scraps from the tables of the capitalists. The incentives of capitalism are definite--- it is perhaps the greatest motivator that ever was, but it cannot be allowed to control itself, or you end up where we are now: the 1% at the top own nearly 40% of the country. It MUST be regulated. Some of you money worshipers please tell me: when they have it ALL, where are you going to get YOURS?

[Lizzie-6]

Those who supported McCain or Romney are undeniably LEFTIST.

[SHOOTALL]

What you're ignoring is the fact that it has ALWAYS sucked to be among the poor in capitalist countries. Where do y'all think Socialism comes from? Historically, it has always come from the most capitalistic countries, after the peasants revolt! Capitalism is automatically a two class system: the rich and everyone else. Y'all do not seem to grasp that that means EVERYONE else, including YOU. Statistically, as well as realistically, there is no way anyone on this board is ever going to enter the top 1%. There is too big a gap to jump across, and that gap gets wider every day, making it even less likely. The top 1% siphon money off the masses, with fake controversies ranging from gay marriage to wars they use to keep the masses fighting each other over trivial garbage while the money keeps leaving. Y'all talk about the 47%--- they are the 47% that are in poverty, fighting to get into the middle class, which is shrinking. It's not shrinking because more of the middle class is entering the 1%; it's shrinking because more of the middle class is entering that 47% at the bottom!

 Many of you claim to be Christians, claim to worship Jesus--- from your diatribes on this board, I can see that that is false: you worship the capitalists.A person can SAY anything; it's what they DO that says what they are, and, you are not Christians. You're not even capitalists--- you just WANT to be.

Meanwhile, you kowtow to big money interests and grovel like dogs, hoping they'll throw you scraps when they're done--- that's what "trickle down economics" is, living on scraps from the tables of the capitalists. The incentives of capitalism are definite--- it is perhaps the greatest motivator that ever was, but it cannot be allowed to control itself, or you end up where we are now: the 1% at the top own nearly 40% of the country. It MUST be regulated. Some of you money worshipers please tell me: when they have it ALL, where are you going to get YOURS?

Socialism comes from the  middle class.
Revolution comes from the lower class. 

[Anna]

Those who supported McCain were lied to, we who supported Romney had no other choise.
I'm sorry CDQ capitalism is the better system overall because we only support capitalist by our own
choise. They offer goods we buy them no one is twisting our arms.
If your smart you work and you plan a retirement when your older, not the planned obsolescence
seen in communisum where where everything about you just fades away.

Capitalism works great for the long haul it only has its problems when government starts to interfere.
And usually that government isn't obeying the same laws it requires its own people to obey.
Capitalism isn't free its worked for or it doesn't work at all. Communisum isn't free its forced on you
and your destiny in life is pre arranged along with any accomplishments you have achieved in life.
I choose Jesus that's exactly the way he intended that to be, in your system none of that was allowed.
So in your system a lot of people never get the chanch to be saved they only hear what's wanted for
them to hear. Sure the Holy Spirit still gets through to them but the brainwashing still is a difficult
thing to overcome.

So what if a man makes a buck with his ideas or hard work that was his choise and if he gives the
credit to God why shouldn't he be allowed to? Or gives the credit to himself what ever the case may
be, that's a different convertation. The key is he did it of his own free will it wasn't forced on him
or by the government taking credit for what he has done. Only to bolster its own collective ego.
It sounds like to me you would have been happier to have been an ant or a sweet little honey bee.
Buzzing or crawling around in nature without a care in the world. Everything provided for you in life
but what kind of life is that? You own nothing not even your own life the meaning of life is the challenges that God puts before us. And the joy of how we accept or overcome those challenges
as an individual not a collective.

Self satisfaction is a key ingredient of the human existence not spreading that around to others who
do not deserve it. God deals with us on a one on one basis not what everyone else has done in conjunction to that. Example: your in a bad marriage and you say some of it was your doing and
some was hers. Wrong answer! What she did doesn't matter to God in relation to you he takes that
up with her. What you did does, did you allow things to happen or cause them yourself?
My point is that's evidence that we were intended to be individuals and we pay as individuals for our
sins. We also are rewarded as individuals for what we have done the credit for that does not go to
the government or anyone else. God will deal with the government in his own accord but once more
that is the individuals who make up that government.

Government is only a word as is capitalist or communist and words themselves don't go to hell.
People go to hell and by forcing anything on anyone especially by removing their individuality
is fooling around with free will. Even God himself doesn't do that it is his number one directive.
People suffer as a collective for their sins even though they had nothing to do with it. They allowed
it to happen even when he gave them the tools to prevent it like with the Constitution.
If they lack the courage to stop communism or the theft of their free will being freedom.
Then they lack the faith in him and the promises he has made to them if they should perish in
restoring his order not mans. Some are to weak or old to do this but they would if they could.
Its the strong who must do this God didn't make them that way for no reason. 


 

[SHOOTALL]

Capitalism works great for those who are willing to work. Problem is there are too many not willing to work now days. And too many others willing to make it so they don't have to work.

[reliquary]

CDQ:  reference post #37:  You're right, it sucks to be poor in a capitalist country.  I grew up poor, in East Texas; fourth-generation Redneck, but got over being poor by means of an education and hard work.  Still a Redneck, though...
 
There are still poor folks in the county I was raised in...after I retired from the Army and moved back there, I taught grandkids of some of the people I grew up with.  Some of them are still poor and blaming others for their plight, but most families I grew up with have done what I did, and are now middle-class or higher. 
Having been around the globe a few times in uniform, I've seen Socialism at work, and in some instances it works well enough, especially when supported by confiscatory tax rates.  But I am more Libertarian in my personal leanings, so I prefer the freedoms and the risks associated with a capitalistic, representative republic.
 
To each his or her own...
 
 

[SHOOTALL]

TM that's what we are getting with the HCA. I don't agree that it would be worst under true capitalism.

[magooch]

Just how offensive is the term? Anyone who supports Obama is a leftist. If not then tell me how I can weed out the leftists from the other Obama supporters. Help me define what a true "leftist" is.

Let's not beat around the bush.  Anyone who supports Obama is a moron--period.  They might also be a leftist, but that would be a secondary identifier.

[mcwoodduck]

QDC,
I have a problem with you saying the top 1% siphons $ from the masses. 
That sounds like leftist drivel but can you please explain how they do that?
I understand that the top 1% in the late 1800's and the early 1900's were men that risked their fortune on building the country.  They were the ones that had Steel mills and Built railroads, and meat packing plants and the like. 
These were men that gave jobs to the population in providing goods and services that people wanted.  In the 1900's we see more and more people using their savings and entering the stock market allowing more jobs to be created providing capital for new ideas and endevors.
What you are suggesting is the top 1% are more like princes and kings that use everyone a as surf when that is the socialsit and communist system.
And if you look Scoialism and Communism both came from the Upper class by people that were born into wealth and hated their status but were unwilling to give it up and a way to knock down what their father, grand father or great grandfather did to create the wealth.    These are hte same people that today are the ones that think they have a right to your money and how you spend it how they see fit and not what you think is best for you or your family. 
Since the great lie of Socialism  in the form of Facism, Communism, or othe socialist ideas have never worked, have murdered  over 150 million for asking why, not being part of the ideal form, or other forms of questioning the Eutopia.  What makes you think that it will work here in the US? 
And yes over 170,000 million have been shot in the name of Socialism since the 1917 revolution.
Russia- Killed over 50,000,0000 people 
Germany -Killed over 40,000,000 people
Cambodia- Killed over 3,000,000
China - Best estamate is over 35,000,000 People
Viet Nam - 1.5 Million
Cuba - Over 2, Million
Africa - Over 15,000,000
South America - Over 12,000,000
These are not people killed in war, these are people that did not fit the Ideal worker for the paradise and were just shot or tortured.
Is that the eutipia that socialism brings?  Give in to our will or die? 
 

[yellowtail3]

I'd be curious where these numbers came from?

And yes over 170,000 million have been shot in the name of Socialism since the 1917 revolution.
Russia- Killed over 50,000,0000 people 

is that fifty million? By whom, when? Do you include WW2 casualty numbers there?

Germany -Killed over 40,000,000 people

When? Does this include WW2 casualties? Are these dead Germans?

These are not people killed in war, these are people that did not fit the Ideal worker for the paradise and were just shot or tortured.

that in mind... I'd be interested to know where those numbers came from, and who did the killing, esp in Germany?

[mcwoodduck]

Obama care was supose to cut HC costs by $1500 a family and it now looks like it us going to ADD $2300 a year to your HC costs.
That is a $3,800 a year cost increas from what they said it would cost. 
If Obama care was supose to cut HC costs why did it never look at hthe COSTS. 
Capitalism is excatly what you want in HC.  It will allocate the resources most efficiently and keep the costs lthe lowest.

.
Capitalism is exactly what you don't want in HC....it leads to inflated ever increasing charges, HC slaves, and unnecessary procedures and permanent sickness; as well as unscrupulous racketeering and billing practices. No sick or infirm person should be a 'profit center' to be kept endlessly on four, five or more meds for life....that is 'mark of the beast'.  The capitalism incentive in HC is to keep people sick and continue to make profits. There really is no competition in HC.....When you have the 'big one' are you going to drive around in the ambulance to 4 or 5 hospitals and check out price list and options?.. Don't think so.!  Ever call a hospital 'charge master'  to get a price list for procedures....lots of luck? Ever read a detailed hospital bill_ _its criminal racketeering nothing less..
.
All a cross America, people are figuring out that this Obamacare monstrosity was an invention of the uber conservative Heritage Foundation (of Tea Party fame) to maximize Corpo HC profits and slave participants in the worse and most corrupt HC system the world has ever seen...and to blame it on the Demos and name it after Obama...pretty slick, huh! Hopefully if any luck,,,,this will result in an HC revolution and citizens will get the HC they really need and deserve and pay for.   Nothing will be right in America until Americans are freed from HC tyranny and corruption when they smash thru the enforced lefty vs righty dialectic. Then America will be on the move again and far more healthy and vital.
.
.
..TM7.

Actually Capitalism does the exact opposite.  It provides the best cures, best service and lowers the prices to attract the most customers. 
Government intervention (some needed we cna not have a person not trained opening a Doctors office)  adds to the costs of doing business and that drives up the costs. 
With Obama care you are going to have monopolies, single provider.  As we all know a monopoly creates higher prices and less service.  " You want it?  You pay for it, if it does not work, we don't care"
Look at the DMV in a large city, that is what youare going ot get as health care when it is single payer.
What has funded the recient cures for things are the amount of money that the cures can make.  With out the incentive to make money on the cure for XXXX there is no reason to do research.
Look at the cures that have come from the US over the last 75 years.  Look at the cures that have come from a socialist or communist health care system over the last 75 years.  Amazing that the comunists and socialist have done almost nothing, and hte Capitalist heath care systems have created so much.  From Cancer research, to drugs, to medical devices, to medical procedures, the capitalist system fixes problems, while the communist system makes you comfortable until you pass away.

[mcwoodduck]

I'd be curious where these numbers came from?

And yes over 170,000 million have been shot in the name of Socialism since the 1917 revolution.
Russia- Killed over 50,000,0000 people 

is that fifty million? By whom, when? Do you include WW2 casualty numbers there?

Germany -Killed over 40,000,000 people

When? Does this include WW2 casualties? Are these dead Germans?

These are not people killed in war, these are people that did not fit the Ideal worker for the paradise and were just shot or tortured.

that in mind... I'd be interested to know where those numbers came from, and who did the killing, esp in Germany?

It is what the concentration camps, it is what the invading armies did to civilians in all of the occupied areas from France to Russia. in making room for the arian expansion and reprisals on civilians. 

[DDZ]

Those who supported McCain were lied to, we who supported Romney had no other choise.
I'm sorry CDQ capitalism is the better system overall because we only support capitalist by our own
choise. They offer goods we buy them no one is twisting our arms.
If your smart you work and you plan a retirement when your older, not the planned obsolescence
seen in communisum where where everything about you just fades away.

Capitalism works great for the long haul it only has its problems when government starts to interfere.
And usually that government isn't obeying the same laws it requires its own people to obey.
Capitalism isn't free its worked for or it doesn't work at all. Communisum isn't free its forced on you
and your destiny in life is pre arranged along with any accomplishments you have achieved in life.
I choose Jesus that's exactly the way he intended that to be, in your system none of that was allowed.
So in your system a lot of people never get the chanch to be saved they only hear what's wanted for
them to hear. Sure the Holy Spirit still gets through to them but the brainwashing still is a difficult
thing to overcome.

So what if a man makes a buck with his ideas or hard work that was his choise and if he gives the
credit to God why shouldn't he be allowed to? Or gives the credit to himself what ever the case may
be, that's a different convertation. The key is he did it of his own free will it wasn't forced on him
or by the government taking credit for what he has done. Only to bolster its own collective ego.
It sounds like to me you would have been happier to have been an ant or a sweet little honey bee.
Buzzing or crawling around in nature without a care in the world. Everything provided for you in life
but what kind of life is that? You own nothing not even your own life the meaning of life is the challenges that God puts before us. And the joy of how we accept or overcome those challenges
as an individual not a collective.

Self satisfaction is a key ingredient of the human existence not spreading that around to others who
do not deserve it. God deals with us on a one on one basis not what everyone else has done in conjunction to that. Example: your in a bad marriage and you say some of it was your doing and
some was hers. Wrong answer! What she did doesn't matter to God in relation to you he takes that
up with her. What you did does, did you allow things to happen or cause them yourself?
My point is that's evidence that we were intended to be individuals and we pay as individuals for our
sins. We also are rewarded as individuals for what we have done the credit for that does not go to
the government or anyone else. God will deal with the government in his own accord but once more
that is the individuals who make up that government.

Government is only a word as is capitalist or communist and words themselves don't go to hell.
People go to hell and by forcing anything on anyone especially by removing their individuality
is fooling around with free will. Even God himself doesn't do that it is his number one directive.
People suffer as a collective for their sins even though they had nothing to do with it. They allowed
it to happen even when he gave them the tools to prevent it like with the Constitution.
If they lack the courage to stop communism or the theft of their free will being freedom.
Then they lack the faith in him and the promises he has made to them if they should perish in
restoring his order not mans. Some are to weak or old to do this but they would if they could.
Its the strong who must do this God didn't make them that way for no reason. 
 

Good post Anna.
 Capitalism does work well for the long haul. When it doesn't work, it is because of government intervention. To many people can't see that. They blame capitalism, because government intervention is exactly what they want.   

[ChungDoQuan]

First off, those numbers are wacked. 170,000 million is 170 BILLION people. some 30 times the population of the entire planet?  Never happened. And sure, Stalin killed millions, but he was a dictator, no different from Hitler--- he just CLAIMED to be a socialist, again like Hitler. The numbers from Vietnam, Cuba, and South America, at least, are how many people DIED by US influence for BEING socialists.

Capitalism helped build the country? 35,000 people a year (25-33% of the employees) died of accidents and fires  in factories owned by J.P. Morgan and Rockefeller, not counting the deaths of railroad workers from 1890 to 1900. Working in sweatshops 66 hrs a week for less than the company charged them to live. In 1900, Morgan and Rockefeller had PROFITS of $53 million--- 8 times the US treasury holdings at that time. In 1900 $.  And many factory workers were children. These are your heros?

[mcwoodduck]

First off, those numbers are wacked. 170,000 million is 170 BILLION people. some 30 times the population of the entire planet? Sorry I ment to say 170 Million and wrote out 170,000,000 Never happened. And sure, Stalin killed millions, but he was a dictator, no different from Hitler--- he just CLAIMED to be a socialist, again like Hitler. The numbers from Vietnam, Cuba, and South America, at least, are how many people DIED by US influence for BEING socialists.  Sure Lenin wanted the Eutipia of Socialism and as soon as he was dead dictators took over, Mao realized he did not kill enough when he took over and had the burges of the 70's. 

Capitalism helped build the country? 35,000 people a year (25-33% of the employees) died of accidents and fires  in factories owned by J.P. Morgan and Rockefeller, not counting the deaths of railroad workers from 1890 to 1900. Working in sweatshops 66 hrs a week for less than the company charged them to live. In 1900, Morgan and Rockefeller had PROFITS of $53 million--- 8 times the US treasury holdings at that time. In 1900 $.  And many factory workers were children. These are your heros?  Yes,  While the accidents were sad it was not like your heros that orderd people killed.  They were accidents that the owners never would have wanted to have happened.  I have never said we do not need some government.  Yes the begining of the child labor laws and the work place safety were needed. 
I know we do not need a commettee telling us what is going to be made, how much, and where you are going to work. 
Again what would you do if the Comitee desided that the martial arts you like are too violent and outlaw them?  It is for the good of the nation and too many people get hurt learning it.  We have to pay for all of those injuries and not to mention all the spaer calories you burn are a waste of tax payer $ / Government $. 
QDC,
Some how you do not like America, someone sold you a bill of goods that Socialism is the answer when it is the problem.  You look at the USSR and see how it quickly became a dictatorship with no new products only copies of what the west made.  Look at Greece that embraced Socialism and all the benefits of it and they finally ran out of other peoples money and now everyone that believed in the great lie are now with out.  The virtues you want in Socialism are never founded there but are founded in Capitalism.  Hard work is rewarded, risk, and delayed gratification are rewarded, creating things for the good of society are done, they are just not done for free.    Building the perfect society starts with limited government.  Allowing people to make desicions based on doing the homework of what product they want or need. 

[ChungDoQuan]

Actually, building the perfect society depends on limiting capitalism. You obviously do not know what happened in Greece--- it was basically the same thing that happened in Iceland. The banks loaned out huge sums guaranteed with the taxpayer's money. The problem is they could only cover a fraction of those loans with ALL the money in the entire country. When the loans began to default, there was not enough money in the whole country to cover them. Because of US style deregulation of their banks, their profits were theirs, and their losses became the public's debt. They had to deregulate the banks to join the EU. DEREGULATION is what caused the world's present economic crisis--- NOT ENOUGH government control of the banking "industry" (parasites) caused this. It was caused by lack of regulation on the capitalists.

The "accidents" that caused so much death in the sweatshops at the turn of the last century were really negligence--- every single one of those factories had been pressed by unions to improve the working conditions since the Civil War. There had been strikes, (which were ended by military intervention) protests, and public outcry, which were simply ignored. Just as you have never said we do not need some government, I have never said we should do away with capitalism. I DO support government regulation, which, on this board is "socialism." Y'all's words, not mine. The obvious solution is known as socio-capitalism. If y'all can get away from the either/or,  black/white, good/bad form of absolutist thinking which avoids reason at all costs, you'd see that the correct combination of both is the only way to go. It involves something called the gray area. (And the gray matter!)

[mcwoodduck]

So you took a loan you could not pay or someone you are close to took one of the Socialist loans that sounded like free money and you never expected to pay back.  The rule of thumb is for every 100,000 you borrow you are going to pay 1,000 a month in payments.
 
How do you expect people that make 3,000 a month after taxes to pay a loan on a half million loan?  They are automaticlly 2,000 in the hole on the loan and that is before they put food on the table or power into the house.  The interest only loans were preditory, but set up by a Liberal that knew it was going to cause a housing spike and collapse.  It was sold as a way to get people into houses and that they could take advantage of the increase in the cost of the house to sell it and use it as a down payment before the principal was due.   Had it not been for a law that made banks make the preditory loans they never would have.  No one is going to loan money to people that can not pay it back.  The bank is in business to take in savings, and loan it out to make a little money to pay you to keep it wiht them and to feed their families.  Despite what you think capitalists want to make a good product at a fair price and employ good people to work for them. 
And I will not defend what was done in the past to break strikes.  It seems that courpt politicians are more to blame for the Military being called out to break a strike.  I agree that we needed unions in the past, but at some point the unions that were there to protect the workers now prey off of those same workers.  More proof that socialism does not work and that it will become corupt quickly.   If those same politicians were willing to use troops to break a strike for campaign donations what do you think those same politicians would do to make their political bosses happy and with out over sight.  Say what you want but the lack of oversight by a free press (if the government is in charge then they are incharge of the press too and will fire the ones that do not print what they are told). 
 
And maybe it was the generosity of those great men that has you thinking you have a right to their money.  Thse men set up public libraries, colleges, scholarships, public parks, and hospitals now that they have given away large chunks of their fortune to build public works all you think is whay they did not do more, give more, or what have you.  Some how the day dreams of "If I had his money I would do this or that have become, it is my 1st amendment right to free speach and he has to do with his money what I want him to do and we need a law saying so. 
It seems that you think government is a benevolent parent and will make sure that you are not picked on, that every thing is split up fairly and that they do not have evil ententions of their own, or that they know what is needed to make things work.    Would you let a politician tell your doctor how to treat you?  But yet you are willing to let a politician that knows nothing about business regulate it and dictate how they have to interact with their customers and employees.  I know nothing about your business but if I get ellected are you willing to let me regulate your industry because someone stole.  And remember Bernie Madoff would not have been able to steal Billions of dollars with out the regulations that made people feel safe and that the government would protect them and cover their losses if any only to find out that was not true.
 
 
 
 

[mcwoodduck]

Capitalism is not a religion as defined by Karl Marx,,,its a method.

Some items, most discretionary, are best supplied by capitalized markets.
Other things, mostly staples and necessities, aren't so best supplied by capitalized markets when corruption takes over. HC is one of those things....there really is no competition for HC consumers. A lot of things have no real competition in the market place.  Indeed the goal of the capitalist is control of the market, monopoly or oligopoly. So if you have a single doctor in the town then tey can charge what the market will.  But as you see that the doctor in town is making money hand over fist you could take some of your $ build a small doctors office and hire doctor from another area.   Offer faster service, lower prices and better care.  And people will come to you.  As the first doctor sees that he is loosing business he too will lower prices, and increase service. 
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Confusing totalitarianism, or other things they don't like, with socialism is another battle cry of the corporatocracy...i.e the ruling oligopoly. Most death counts in the 20th century were by massive wars, religious wars, feudal war lords, totalitarianism genocides, etc.
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Other facts the Right doesn't want you to know:

The corpocrats love Big Governmnet...more confusion and money floating around during constant bickering with more tax funds/contracts to be divided up. Capitalism needs and thrives on oppositional dialectics.  NO.  large tax burdens keep people from being able to buy their products.  Price = Costs + profits + taxes.  the higher taxes go the higher the price of a good or service goes and the less of those goods or services will be purchased.    Now once rich people become rich and are controlling they want higher taxes because to makes their wealth worth more.  As the more the goverment takes the less people cna spend. 

Old capitalist saying:  I care not what you call a system, socialized or capitalized, just as long as we control it.  I think you have that wrong, it is politicians that want ot control things. 

The Right also loves Medicaire and Social Security, as its somebody else's money in there pocket, two programs that can picked over, but its 'socialism' so they have to remain quiet about such things and occassionaly run them down. No the right does not like Social Security or Medicare.  Social Security is a ponzi scheeme that destroys wealth.  If you were allowed to invest 1/3 of what the government steals from you as Social Security you would not need social security and you wil be able to pass that $ on to your loved ones.  If you die the day after you turn 65 and having paid in for your whole life your money is gone.  Actually that lock box is all part of the Great lie that they tell, your moeny was gone the second they took it and you will not see it again.  You just have to hope they can keep the pyramid scheeme going long enought to get paid out of it.  What is illegal in the private world is policy in the government and that should concern you.

The barons of corpo also love the USGA unified handicap system for their quintessential game, golf...a thoroughly 'socialized' system allowing those of lessor acumen to play with those of higher achievement.  It is called a handicap and was invented by liberals so that peopel that are not talented, do not work at the sport or are new can beat people that are and feel good shooting a 120 with a 20 handicap and beating a scratch golfer that shot a 102.  the best part of Golf is that it is a game of charicter.  You play against your self, are you willing to cheat to get a lower score, and all you are doing is showing you have a charicter flaw.  The guys that will cheat at golf are the same ones that will cheat you in business and that is why some people like to conduct business on the course to see your charicter or lack there of.  If you are looking for a corupt person their golf game will tell you.   
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......TM7

[gypsyman]

If this country's health care system is so bad, why did I see Arab Emrites 747 plane's (2),to be exact, sitting at the Cleveland airport a few years ago. Seems one of the shahs needed some serious surgery, and picked the Cleveland Clinic. A friend of mine, who worked the swat team for the Cleveland PD, had been assigned for additional security. Why do so many people want to get into this country,(some even do it legally). If any here really think that the system we've had,(which is in the process of changing dramatically) is so bad, GET THE HELL OUT. Nobody is stopping you. Get a one way ticket to Russia,China,Cuba, wherever. Don't let the door hit you in the butt! No different than the blacks that complain about this country. Move back to Africa, I promise, we will not miss you. And, when that lion is chasing you thru the bush, tell him how bad America is!gypsyman

[Oldshooter]

Good points!  All this hope and change is going to make this country into something that will be similar to a third world country( the goal I think).
 
Reminds me of a boy breaking up with his girlfriend because she aint what he wants, then realizes she wasn't perfect but the best thing he was going to get. Too late she's gone for good!
 
Our children and theirs will pay the price for this experiment in communism!

[ChungDoQuan]

Ignoring fact does not change fact. For Y'ALL, capitalism IS your religion. (Reread TM's post, this time for meaning.) For me, it's a method. That means I can logically improve the method, and y'all just have to blindly follow your saints, the 1%. NO, I'm not leaving. I'M staying and changing the things that need changing. You all might as well get ready--- it's going to change. It HAS to. The Israelies are RIOTING this morning, in response to their new finance minister's initiating their version of austerity. There are riots all over Europe in response to the top 1% foisting their costs off onto the middle class, and there will be riots here unless major changes are made to the present parasitic system. My facts are not the same as, nor do they have the inherent weakness of, YOUR beliefs.

[rickt300]

I guess my question has been answered.  If you hate capitalism you are a leftist.

[Oldshooter]

That may be true!  And if you write full page explanations of your arguments in multi colors you are a "confusionist"

[reliquary]

I am a Libertarian...a "leftist" is anyone more liberal than I.