Author Topic: Brooks 1 inch Napoleon  (Read 5018 times)

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Offline Double D

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Brooks 1 inch Napoleon
« on: May 09, 2013, 08:06:32 PM »
.  Our last order was for the U.S. 12 Pdr. Model 1857 Napoleon, which will soon be offered in 1" bore.
 

How much?

DD,


This is the barrel we talked about last year. The print has been on my shop wall since then, terrorizing me every time I walk by. Its time has come. It is 20" long from 3" bar, with 1" bore. The price is 625.00. I will pay freight and insurance to registered GBO members in the lower 48. For GBO members in Afghanistan, kindly enclose round trip ticket for hand delivery......have Passport, will travel.

                                                          Michael
                                              Home of the Golden Gun

Okay refresh my memory....I know we talked, I  just don't remember what we said. 

I remember drawing a a Napoleon barrel for someone with AutoCad---is that the print you are talking about?

What scale is your 1 inch gun?




Offline Double D

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Re: Brooks 1 inch Napoleon
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2013, 03:35:44 PM »
Oh you mean my refrigerator drawings I made out 8th  Grade CAD class.










Offline Backswampcub

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Re: Brooks 1 inch Napoleon
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2013, 04:06:27 PM »

  Yes tell us more about this new barrel. Sound like a fun project to build a carriage for.  I figure at 20 " barrel length the wheels would be 17.51" tall and the overall carriage and barrel together would be 41" long.  Sounds like a nice piece to sit on the coffee table. 



Offline irishman

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Re: Brooks 1 inch Napoleon
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2013, 04:40:51 PM »
DD,

Yes, they are the prints. I'm pretty excited to build one. Actually, I'm going to put several in process.

I would like to take exception to a few dimensions on the 'trunnion detail'. First, what do you think about reducing the 1.69 to 1 1/2? or even 1 1/4? We make numerous 3" dia barrels, probably the 24Pdr 1" is the most known with 1 1/4 stepped to 1". (used to be 15/16 til Zulu got my mind right)

The 1.15 trunnion is no problem, but, why? 1" would be closer to the bore dia.

The .89" trunnion length is not an issue to make, but why? Standard wood dimensions way different.

Other than these minor issues, my focus is on the elegant contour of this barrel.

                                         Michael
                             Home of the Golden Gun



Offline Zulu

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Re: Brooks 1 inch Napoleon
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2013, 04:56:30 PM »
A 1" diameter trunnion allows the use of 1" conduit to make capsquares.  It makes it a whole lot easier.
A trunnion length of 1 1/2" allows  beefier carriage cheeks.  I think that is necessary for a 1" bore gun.
Zulu
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Offline Double D

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Re: Brooks 1 inch Napoleon
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2013, 06:24:50 PM »
I think the dimensions are direct scaled....relying on memory here.  That was clear last year.   I think what I did was draw a Napoleon for inch bore. 

I drew for the  AOP drawing. The actual Napoleon bore is larger than than 3x bore=breech diameter. Using the safety rule, I used a 3xbore to get 3 inch breech then scaled the  original drawing down accordingly.  If you use that scale and then use it with the AOP drawings to make the carriage and multiply the dimensions in the drawing by the scale factor every thing will fit-and look right.  It you go changing dimension then the proportions will get out of whack with the carriage.

The only thing in this drawing that is not scale is the bore.  Everything else is direct scaled from the original.  True scaled bore would be 1.15". So for correct scale trunnion dimension is 1.15.  Everything on the outside of the barrel will properly scaled, just the bore will be slightly smaller than scale.

I wanted this gun made to scale not fit to wood.

Zulu it is very hard to find any fault in your work, but if there is any, to my eye it is you make the wheels and cheeks of your smaller cannon too thick. They do not look right--they look fat.

The wider cheeks and wheels you make look just fine on the conceptual carriages you make to go on the conceptual guns the  Michael makes.

This Napoleon is not a conceptual gun, it is a scale gun---on purpose.

If you guys work with this and keep the dimensions I have drawn and establish a product line based on these dimensions of this gun, it would justify someone tooling up and making wheels in this scale.   This will lead to other guns built to the same scale that can use the same carriage and wheels

The biggest stumbling block is the availability of wheels..It is expensive to set up and build one wheel, set up and build 20 or 40 of the same wheel and the cost goes down.  If  we get some one building those---hint, hint, then we will see a lot more field carriages here.

Inch is an appealing size.  It will sell.  Stick with me here guys, don't change anything.
 

Offline Double D

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Re: Brooks 1 inch Napoleon
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2013, 06:45:01 PM »
If there is a uniform scaled carriage and wheels to go with this 1 inch bore Napoleon,  then I see folks like Dom jumping into this uniform scale and offering the carriage hardware and Ed making a run of .975 round ball moulds.

Ed could also use the same scale to scale down any of the  AOP drawing of iron guns that used this carriage.  Just punch in a bore that was 1/3 the breech diameter or 1 inch.  I'm not sure Dom has a lathe big enough to accommodate this big a tube...

In fact if the wheels were available, anyone who builds,  would be able to build a field gun.  We have number of guys here who are well skilled to do that.


Offline GGaskill

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Re: Brooks 1 inch Napoleon
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2013, 08:40:37 PM »
Just to get my unrequested $0.02 into this discussion, I would bore to 1 1/32" or 1 3/64" so true 1" shot could be used.

I agree that the properly scaled external dimensions should be the guide or the proportions will seem wrong.
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
--Winston Churchill

Offline Double D

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Re: Brooks 1 inch Napoleon
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2013, 12:29:38 AM »
Agree George, the 1 1/32 would be better.  True one inch (1.") shot is available.

Offline Backswampcub

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Re: Brooks 1 inch Napoleon
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2013, 02:44:10 AM »
 
    I would have to agree on the scale size trunnions being better. 1" would look small and out of place. I have looked and no one is making 17.5" wheels. Maybe we can get somebody on board on making these. 

Offline irishman

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Re: Brooks 1 inch Napoleon
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2013, 06:54:38 AM »
Thanks to all of you for your thoughts about this Napy. I will build to print plus expand the 1" to 1 1/32 so that standard inch balls can be used.

I am talking to a pair of woodworkers up here that interested. They seem to grasp that the fixturing necessary is no cake walk.

I will add a 12' 3" dia bar to my stock order tomorrow.

                                 Michael
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Offline onegreatshot

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Re: Brooks 1 inch Napoleon
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2013, 12:44:34 AM »
jEEZ, i LIKE IT WHEN YOU GUYS TALK LIKE THIS, ITS SO MOVING.

Offline irishman

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Re: Brooks 1 inch Napoleon
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2013, 03:54:05 AM »
Dennis,

It's DDs fault. He sent the above prints that got me excited. Its time is now. Serial No.001 is sold. The first run will be for 3 or 4.

Fact for the day: The biggest General in Washington has been replaced by a socialist. Chrysler is owned by an Italian Company. These events have eliminated the Big Three and left us with Ford as the 'Big One'.

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Offline BoomLover

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Re: Brooks 1 inch Napoleon
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2013, 06:43:31 AM »
If this Napoleon is the same one in the pic Zulu posted,  :) , and the price is as first quoted, that would be a beautiful Father's Day Present! Hummm, I'm a Father...wonder how hard it would be to convince my wonderful other half  :-* , ( Hi, Honey!), that I deserve this one! (Not to mention my Birthday is coming up even before Fathers Day!)...BoomLover
"Beware the Enemy With-in, for these are perilous times! Those who promise to protect and defend our Constitution, but do neither, should be evicted from public office in disgrace!

Offline Zulu

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Re: Brooks 1 inch Napoleon
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2013, 11:31:27 AM »
If this Napoleon is the same one in the pic Zulu posted,  :) , and the price is as first quoted, that would be a beautiful Father's Day Present! Hummm, I'm a Father...wonder how hard it would be to convince my wonderful other half  :-* , ( Hi, Honey!), that I deserve this one! (Not to mention my Birthday is coming up even before Fathers Day!)...BoomLover

The pic I posted isn't a Napoleon.  It is one of Brooks 24 pounders.
Zulu
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Offline irishman

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Re: Brooks 1 inch Napoleon
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2013, 05:02:40 PM »
If this Napoleon is the same one in the pic Zulu posted,  :) , and the price is as first quoted, that would be a beautiful Father's Day Present! Hummm, I'm a Father...wonder how hard it would be to convince my wonderful other half  :-* , ( Hi, Honey!), that I deserve this one! (Not to mention my Birthday is coming up even before Fathers Day!)...BoomLover

BoomLover,

This could be the Napoleon you have been looking for to add to your collection....

                                                                        Michael
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Free Men own Guns....slaves don't

Offline Zulu

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Re: Brooks 1 inch Napoleon
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2013, 05:13:03 AM »
A full scale Napolean is 72.55" long.
27% of that is 19.59 which is pretty close to Brooks version.
A full scale wheel is 57" tall.
27% of that is 15.39"
Does anyone agree that a 15" to 16" wheel is what is needed here?  It sounds small.
Zulu
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Offline Double D

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Re: Brooks 1 inch Napoleon
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2013, 05:50:38 AM »
A full scale Napolean is 72.55" long.
27% of that is 19.59 which is pretty close to Brooks version.
A full scale wheel is 57" tall.
27% of that is 15.39"
Does anyone agree that a 15" to 16" wheel is what is needed here?  It sounds small.
Zulu

I just found my spread sheet on The Napoleon that I used to make the drawing for Michael.  The base line I used was the breech measurement.  3"/11" = .27  To determine any  scaled down measurement using the AOP drawing multiply the original dimension by .27---27%. 

15.4" wheels. 


 

Offline Zulu

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Re: Brooks 1 inch Napoleon
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2013, 06:04:47 AM »
Michael Brooks,
I know you have posted it somewhere but I can't find it.
How much are you asking for this barrel?
Thanks,
Zulu
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Offline irishman

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Re: Brooks 1 inch Napoleon
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2013, 06:53:45 AM »
Michael Brooks,
I know you have posted it somewhere but I can't find it.
How much are you asking for this barrel?
Thanks,
Zulu
Zulu, My initial offering of this Napoleon is $625 with free shipping (insured) for registered GBO members within the continental US. 
                        Michael
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Offline Zulu

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Re: Brooks 1 inch Napoleon
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2013, 08:46:52 AM »
Does Fox balls make 1" zinc balls?
Their website in the stickies won't open. :-\
Zulu
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Offline GGaskill

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Re: Brooks 1 inch Napoleon
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2013, 09:47:53 PM »
They may have some 25mm overrun balls; give Ken a call.  I fixed the link; websites change and pages come and go and the validity of links with them.  Hope the current destination is satisfactory.

Also, you can get 1" balls from Enco, 25 for $15.87 plus shipping.  Don't know how that compares but they have frequent sales (15% off everything right now) so the price can be cheaper than list.
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
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Offline Zulu

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Re: Brooks 1 inch Napoleon
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2013, 01:51:52 AM »
I found no mention of "zinc" balls on the Fox website.  Weren't they making some out of zinc?
Zulu
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Offline Double D

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Re: Brooks 1 inch Napoleon
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2013, 09:16:17 AM »
Fox makes steel grinding balls.

For Zinc go to Rotometals.  See there link to to there website in the Cannon classifieds

I will have Ed  make a 1 inch zinc round ball mould and send it to Rotometals to have them make zinc for us.

Offline Zulu

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Re: Brooks 1 inch Napoleon
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2013, 08:37:40 AM »
Anyone considering building a carriage for this barrel needs to remember that a Napoleon sits on a #2 carriage.  It is bigger than a #1.
So, 27% of a #2 carriage is correct.
That is Antique Ordnance Publishers catalog #20.
Zulu
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Offline Zulu

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Re: Brooks 1 inch Napoleon
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2013, 01:10:59 PM »
Michael Brooks,
I have been thinking about this.  Do you have the tooling to bore bigger than 1"?  I think this is a great idea.
 
What is the progress on the barrels you are making?  When is the first barrel due?  Is it going to a GBO member?
Zulu
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Offline irishman

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Re: Brooks 1 inch Napoleon
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2013, 05:13:10 PM »
I do have the cutter to go to 1 1/32 diameter bore. I think this is really exciting. I'm thinking of at least offering the option to 1" bore customers to go21 1/32. With the availability of standard 1" balls, this makes it easy to adhere to the critical safety issue of windage. Thank you George!

Two are sold to GBO members and one to a non GBO member. I have 4 blanks cut which leaves one without a home. I am finishing 1" bore 24PDRs now, then to this Napoleon.

I, too am interested in what is soon to come out of your shop, ZULU!

                                                Michael
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Offline Double D

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Re: Brooks 1 inch Napoleon
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2013, 10:31:53 PM »
Zulu are you thinking about doing the wood? Cheeks, trail and Axle?

Whiite oak is what was used but for something on this smaller scale would another hardwood work just as well?

How about wheels?  You up for the them?

Dominick, you have been quiet in this discussion.  Are you up for making the irons- Lunnette and trail plate, axle straps, cap squares  top and bottom with chin and keybolts, under straps, rondellels  and elevating  screw and box?   The additional hardware if desired by customer?

     

Offline Zulu

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Re: Brooks 1 inch Napoleon
« Reply #28 on: June 01, 2013, 04:13:01 AM »
Zulu are you thinking about doing the wood? Cheeks, trail and Axle?

Whiite oak is what was used but for something on this smaller scale would another hardwood work just as well?

How about wheels?  You up for the them?

Dominick, you have been quiet in this discussion.  Are you up for making the irons- Lunnette and trail plate, axle straps, cap squares  top and bottom with chin and keybolts, under straps, rondellels  and elevating  screw and box?   The additional hardware if desired by customer?

     

Double D,
I will be building a 27% scale of a #2 field carriage for one of Brooks' Napoleons for a fellow GBO member.
I will not build the wheels.  I will acquire them from a source that I am not yet ready to reveal.
I will be doing all the rest of the work including all the metal work myself.
I will have the barrel in my possession.  This really helps me.
Zulu
 
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Offline Double D

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Re: Brooks 1 inch Napoleon
« Reply #29 on: June 01, 2013, 04:22:18 AM »
Well hot diggity!!! Did you read my PM?  Well hurry, just got paid, money burning a hole in my pocket.  Won't spend it on cigarettes, booze or wild women.   Don't smoke and the last two are in short supply over here. Might as well send you the money.