Author Topic: Attention Flat-Earthers- CO2 levels set record- and it ain't volcanoes!  (Read 15748 times)

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Offline two-blocked

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Carbon dioxide levels have reached an all-time high
 WASHINGTON — The old saying that "what goes up must come down" doesn't apply to carbon dioxide pollution in the air, which just hit an unnerving milestone.
 
The chief greenhouse gas was measured Thursday at 400 parts per million in Hawaii, a monitoring site that sets the world's benchmark. It's a symbolic mark that scientists and environmentalists have been anticipating for years.
 
http://news.msn.com/science-technology/greenhouse-gases-continue-to-soar-co2-levels-set-record?ocid=ansnews11
 
While this week's number has garnered all sorts of attention, it is just a daily reading in the month when the chief greenhouse gas peaks in the Northern Hemisphere. It will be lower the rest of the year. This year will probably average around 396 ppm. But not for long — the trend is going up and at faster and faster rates.
 
Within a decade the world will never see days — even in the cleanest of places on days in the fall when greenhouse gases are at their lowest — when the carbon dioxide measurement falls below 400 ppm, said James Butler, director of global monitoring at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's Earth Science Research Lab in Boulder, Colo.
 "The 400 is a reminder that our emissions are not only continuing, but they're accelerating; that's a scary thing," Butler said Saturday. "We're stuck. We're going to keep going up."
 
Carbon dioxide stays in the air for a century, some of it into the thousands of years. And the world carbon dioxide pollution levels are accelerating yearly. Every second, the world's smokestacks and cars pump 2.4 million pounds of the heat-trapping gas into the air.
 
Carbon pollution levels that used to be normal for the 20th century are fast becoming history in the 21st century.
 
"It means we are essentially passing one in a whole series of points of no return," said Michael Mann, a climate scientist at Pennsylvania State University.
 
Princeton University climate scientist Michael Oppenheimer said the momentum in carbon dioxide emissions has the world heading toward and passing 450 ppm. That is the level which would essentially mean the world warms another 2 degrees, what scientists think of as dangerous, he said. That 2-degree mark is what much of the world's nations have set as a goal to prevent.
 
Related: Climate change and your health
Related: Most accurate climate models point to more global warming
 
"The direction we've seen is for blowing through the best benchmark for what's dangerous change," Oppenheimer said.
 
And to see what the future is, scientists look to the past.
 
The last time the worldwide carbon level probably hit 400 ppm was about 2 million years ago, said Pieter Tans of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.
 
That was during the Pleistocene Era. "It was much warmer than it is today," Tans said. "There were forests in Greenland. Sea level was higher, between 10 and 20 meters (33 to 66 feet)."
 
Other scientists say it may have been 10 million years ago that Earth last encountered this much carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. The first modern humans only appeared in Africa about 200,000 years ago.
 
Environmental activists, such as former Vice President Al Gore, seized on the milestone.
 
"This number is a reminder that for the last 150 years — and especially over the last several decades — we have been recklessly polluting the protective sheath of atmosphere that surrounds the Earth and protects the conditions that have fostered the flourishing of our civilization," Gore said in a statement. "We are altering the composition of our atmosphere at an unprecedented rate."
 
Carbon dioxide traps heat just like in a greenhouse. It accounts for three-quarters of the planet's heat-trapping gases. There are others, such as methane, which has a shorter life span but traps heat more effectively. Both trigger temperatures to rise over time, scientists say, which is causing sea levels to rise and some weather patterns to change.
 
When measurements of carbon dioxide were first taken in 1958, it measured 315 ppm. Some scientists and environmental groups promote 350 ppm as a safe level for CO2, but scientists acknowledge they don't really know what levels would stop the effects of global warming.
 
The level of carbon dioxide in the air is rising faster than in the past decades, despite international efforts by developed nations to curb it. On average the amount is growing by about 2 ppm per year. That's 100 times faster than at the end of the Ice Age.
 
Back then, it took 7,000 years for carbon dioxide to reach 80 ppm, Tans said. Because of the burning of fossil fuels, such as oil and coal, carbon dioxide levels have gone up by that amount in just 55 years.
 
Before the Industrial Revolution, carbon dioxide levels were around 280 ppm, and they were closer to 200 during the Ice Age, which is when sea levels shrank and polar places went from green to icy. There are natural ups and downs of this greenhouse gas, which comes from volcanoes and decomposing plants and animals. But that's not what has driven current levels so high, Tans said. He said the amount should be even higher, but the world's oceans are absorbing quite a bit, keeping it out of the air.
 
"What we see today is 100 percent due to human activity," said Tans, a NOAA senior scientist. The burning of fossil fuels, such as coal for electricity and oil for gasoline, has caused the overwhelming bulk of the man-made increase in carbon in the air, scientists say.
 
The world sent 38.2 billion tons of carbon dioxide into the air in 2011, according international calculations published in a scientific journal in December. China spews 10 billion tons of carbon dioxide into the air per year, leading all countries, and its emissions are growing about 10 percent annually. The U.S. at No. 2 is slowly cutting emissions and is down to 5.9 billion tons per year.
 
The speed of the change is the big worry, said Pennsylvania State's Mann. If carbon dioxide levels go up 100 ppm over thousands or millions of years, plants and animals can adapt. But that can't be done at the speed it is now happening.
 
"We are a society that has inadvertently chosen the double-black diamond run without having learned to ski first," NASA climate scientist Gavin Schmidt said. "It will be a bumpy ride."
 

Offline FPH

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You have 100 yrs worth of data on a 2 million yr old planet.....give me a break......probably huh.

Offline Cuts Crooked

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.......and the mainland U.S. is experiencing the second coolest spring on record. :-\
Smokeless is only a passing fad!

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Offline two-blocked

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"100 years of data is not enough"- YES IT IS!
http://grist.org/climate-energy/one-hundred-years-is-not-enough/
 

Offline Sourdough

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If the Earth is warming, why are our rivers still frozen solid on May 12th when they are usually running in April.
 
Oh yea, remember the scientist that came up with this Global Warming BS, was caught and he finally admitted he made the reserch match his theory.  In other words he made up his figures and this whole thing to gain noteriety for himself.   In other words "HE LIED".
 
The Earth gets hot, the Earth gets cold.  While we might in a miniscule manner be able to influnce what is happeneing.  Meaning we might be able to slow it down, or speed it up, but it's going to happen anyway.  We just have to learn how to live with it or become extinct.  Don't think us or our kids are going to be around for the big change anyway.
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
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Offline Bigeasy

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Well, here is my 2c... The earth is a living, breathing thing, and climate change comes naturally, including for reasons we don't understand.  Does man have an effect?  I am sure he does, though I doubt to the extent some would have us believe.
 
2 Million years ago we were at 400ppm Co2, then it dropped drastically.  Why?  Then it increased.  Was it all from man?  If so, what caused it to drop and raise in a cyclic pattern over the course of time?  There were many times in our planets history when volcanoes were not a major contributor, and yet the levels rose (A grassy Arctic), and other times they fell (Ice ages)  without any human effect possible.
 
Makes sense we should cut C02 emissions when reasonably possible, as we should all pollution, but to think we will not continue to have ice ages and periods of global warming is pretty silly.
 
Larry
Personal opinion is a good thing, and everyone is entitled to one.  The hard part is separating informed opinion from someone who is just blowing hot air....

Offline two-blocked

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"Global warming is part of a natural cycle"
This idea is one short step above appealing to magic
 
http://grist.org/climate-energy/current-global-warming-is-just-part-of-a-natural-cycle/
 
While it is undoubtedly true that there are natural cycles and variations in global climate, those who insist that  current warming is purely natural — or even  mostly natural — have two challenges.
First, they need to identify the mechanism  behind   this alleged natural cycle. Absent a forcing of some sort, there will be   no change in global energy balance. The balance is changing, so natural or otherwise, we need   to find this mysterious cause.
Second, they   need to come up with an explanation for why a 35% increase in the second most   important greenhouse gas does not  affect the global temperature.   Theory predicts temperature will rise given an enhanced   greenhouse effect, so how or why is it not happening?

Offline keith44

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wow, panic stricken over something even an entire nation could not change if we all bought into the hoax.  C02 is filtered by plant life the carbon component removed and oxygen released during photosynthesis, plant a tree and be happy
keep em talkin' while I reload
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Offline two-blocked

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Hoax? Would have to be the greatest one of all time!
 
Have the environazis seized the  reigns of industrial power, in addition to   infiltrating the U.N., the science academies of every developed nation, and the top   research institutes of North America? That just doesn’t seem very likely.  :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
 
http://grist.org/climate-energy/global-warming-is-a-hoax/

Offline Empty Quiver

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Answer this.


What is the level supposed to be?


Our occupation of this planet is but a tick on the clock. The CO2 levels will mean not a damn thing after ,  Yellowstone blows up
            Asteroid hits the planet
             Nuclear destruction
              Biological warfare
               Run over by a fuggin' electric car, you couldn't hear coming...


The other problems in this life are numerous and more pressing. I am going to take a lesson from my childhood and listen to chicken little and simply get a grip.
**Concealed Carry...Because when seconds count help is only minutes away**

Offline two-blocked

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It's supposed to be what it's supposed to be, but not change by 35% in 150 years!
 
It is true that CO2 has gone up on its own in the past, most notably during the glacial-interglacial cycles. During this time, CO2 rose and fell by over 100 ppm, ranging between around 180 to 300ppm. But these rises, though they look steep over a 400Kyr timeframe, took 5K to 20Kyrs, depending on the glacial cycle.
By contrast, we have seen   an equivalent rise of 100ppm in just 150 years! Check this     plot for a dramatic juxtaposition of the slow glacial termination   versus the industrial revolution.
 
‘The CO2 rise is natural’–No skeptical argument has been more definitively disproven   
 
http://grist.org/climate-energy/the-co2-rise-is-natural/

Offline bosephus

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  so tell us oh great sage of global warming ..  what are you doing personaly to prevent the calamity
you see with " global warming ".

 i see by you posting on this site that you are using electricity ...
 i bet you still drive a car
 
 untill you move into a mud hut , shed all the trappings of modern civalization and live as a prefire caveman you are no better then the rest of us

 
  ps ...  its cold out .. im going to light a nice smokey tire fire in your honor
 

Offline mechanic

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THE SUN
Molon Labe, (King Leonidas of the Spartan Army)

Offline 45-70.gov

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carbon dioxide is good for plants


plants make oxygen


it will all work out


ask  owl  core  he even sold out to an oil company
when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
no one is encouraged to do anything dangerous or break any laws.

Offline two-blocked

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Objection: The sun is the source of warmth on earth. Any increase in temperature is likely due to changes in solar radiation.
 
Answer: It’s true that the earth is warmed, for all practical purposes, entirely by solar radiation, so if the temperature is going up or down, the sun is a reasonable place to seek the cause.
 
Turns out    it’s more complicated than one might think to detect and measure changes in the   amount or type of sunshine reaching the earth. Detectors on the ground are    susceptible to all kinds of interference from the atmosphere — after all, one cloud passing overhead can cause a shiver on an otherwise   warm day, but not because the sun itself changed. The best way to   detect changes in the output of the sun — versus changes in the radiation   reaching the earth’s surface through clouds, smoke, dust, or pollution — is by   taking readings from space.
 
This is a job for satellites. According to PMOD   at the World Radiation Center there has been no increase in solar irradiance   since at least 1978, when satellite observations began. This means that for the   last thirty years, while the temperature has been rising fastest, the sun has not changed.
 
‘It’s the sun, stupid’–Very bright, yes, but not getting brighter   
 
http://grist.org/climate-energy/its-the-sun-stupid/

Offline two-blocked

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‘Geological history does not support CO2′s importance’–Just not true   
 
http://grist.org/climate-energy/geological-history-does-not-support-co2s-importance/

Offline mechanic

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All right Two Blocked, what do we do about it?  If you were in charge, what would you do?
Ben
Molon Labe, (King Leonidas of the Spartan Army)

Offline Shu

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I'll bet Al Gore knows what to do.
 
If the earth is 64 billion years old and CO2 has been measured for 200 years that is a tiny amount of data to get all up in a twist about. Way less than .00000001%. Tell you what I'll give you .00000001% of a 200 dollars. You can feed your family for a long time on that. ;D ;D

Offline Anna

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Couldn't prove it by this last winter. Holy cow was it ever cold I thought I was going to have to get
rid of the wood burning stove and get a blast furnace.
And its still cold some of my trees are just now blooming. We got an ice rain last week but thank
goodness it wasnt hail, even the range cowboys have put off the branding season.
And still no flies by this time they would be all over the place. 2B are you sure the world isn't flat?
 :P

Offline 45-70.gov

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we  need particles in the atmosphear to help block the sun ands UV rays


i think i will burn a tire tomorrow
when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
no one is encouraged to do anything dangerous or break any laws.

Offline ChungDoQuan

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True, the Earth has been here for billions of years. Also true, it will be here for billions more. The survival of the Earth itself is not in question. Very likely, the survival of life is not in jeopardy, if you look at plants, fish, insects, and bacteria. The question is, "Is the human race intelligent enough to avoid dying in its own waste?" If most people think like most of you, apparently not. That end does not sound like children of god to me...
If you give up, THEY don't have to win.

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The greatest idea the right ever had is personal responsibility; the greatest idea the left ever had is social responsibility. Both take effort.

The Founding Fathers had complete access to the Bible, but they came up with the Constitution as our governing document.

Offline mechanic

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OK Chung, what should we do?
Ben
Molon Labe, (King Leonidas of the Spartan Army)

Offline two-blocked

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Annie,
Silly girl, weather does not equal climate!
 
Objection: It was way colder than normal today in Wagga Wagga, proof that there is no global warming.
 
Does this even deserve an answer? If we must …
 
Answer: The chaotic nature of weather means that no conclusion about climate can ever be drawn from a single data point, hot or cold. The temperature of one place at one time is just weather, and says nothing about climate, much less climate change, much less global climate change.
 
http://grist.org/climate-energy/its-cold-today-in-wagga-wagga/
 

 
Benny,
Here's some ideas
 
10 Solutions for Climate Change
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=10-solutions-for-climate-change
 

Offline 45-70.gov

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can you suggest ANY SOLUTION  that doesn't  involve  WORLD GOVERNMENT CONTROL


this whole''GLOBAL'' warming  is just to get people  ''warmed up''  to ''GLOBAL GOVERNMENT''
when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
no one is encouraged to do anything dangerous or break any laws.

Offline mechanic

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OK Two Blocked, read the ten steps.  How many do you practice?  Have you cut out all fossil fuels, as well as cutting trees?  Are you going vegan?  One child only?
 
Parked that car yet?
Lets see, no fires, no heat, no fossil fuels, and no meat.  Sounds like a wonderful world.
 
Ben
Molon Labe, (King Leonidas of the Spartan Army)

Offline keith44

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Ok, really hate digging this out again, but since you have been brainwashed into this hoax, perhaps a few real facts (ie those not manufactured by the gore group) may help prevent spreading this dis-ease


http://news.heartland.org/newspaper-article/2009/10/01/primer-global-warming-dispelling-myths


http://news.heartland.org/newspaper-article/2009/07/01/primer-global-warming-dispelling-co2-myths


http://www.worldclimatereport.com/archive/previous_issues/vol1/v1n5/feature.htm


sorry I'm not buying into the hype

keep em talkin' while I reload
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Offline spruce

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What should we do??  It's simple - raise taxes, that solves everything! ;)
 
Let's see - CO2 levels were first measured in 1958.....but we know what the levels were 10 and 20 million years ago?
 
You say the recent rise in CO2 levels are 100% due to human activity.....yet in another sentence you say there are naturally occurring activity that contributes CO2 - which is it??
 
You say the temperature has been rising steadily for the past 30 years.......In fact there has been no rise for the past 10 years.
 
You say the temperature has risen steadily for the past 150 years......Yes, because that was the end of the Little Ice Age when the earth was in a cooler cycle.
 
Whether you believe Al Gore or not I've yet to see any practical solutions offered up.  All I've seen are politicians talking about taxing and passing more useless legislation, and the greenies running around screaming the sky is falling and getting rich!

Offline Larry L

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One of the research scientists at Texas A&M did a ten year study on carbon cycles over the entire life span of earth. She predicted that carbon levels would go up just before the next ice age. Well folks, get out yer coats, the temperatures around the global have been falling for the last several years- not going up as per the whackos like Al Gore. The Russians are announcing the new global cooling and are expecting the globe to start a new phase of much lower temps. Lower temps means that more carbon will be washed from the air, into the oceans where the molecule will evaporate with the water and be deposited on mountain tops......just like it has for billions of years. This ain't earths first rodeo folks.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/04/29/russian-scientists-say-period-of-global-cooling-ahead-due-to-changes-in-the-sun/



Offline Anna

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Annie,
Silly girl, weather does not equal climate!
 
Objection: It was way colder than normal today in Wagga Wagga, proof that there is no global warming.
 

LOL you are right but hay!

Offline gypsyman

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Follow the money . gypsyman
We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!!Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman