Author Topic: Attention Flat-Earthers- CO2 levels set record- and it ain't volcanoes!  (Read 15758 times)

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Offline Empty Quiver

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It would be nice to go cold turkey on our CO2 producing habits. That's impractical so we have to attack it incrementally.
 
What do I do at the moment?
We drive two fuel sippers
We keep the thermostats down and work to make the house tighter
We buy wind produced electric. That costs extra
We use public transportation and ride bikes or walk as much as possible
We recycle and reuse as much as feasible
We buy local produce when in season
We have regular discussions with the kids about climate change (indoctrination sessions)
We never vote for candidates that are too dumb to recognize climate change
We pray for the day when we can welcome those poor misguided souls blinded by religious dogma into the light  ;)
 
In the future I hope to do more
so except for the indoctrination, voting habits, and having some sort of special access to wind power you do all of the normal cost saving measures of most Americans on a budget.
**Concealed Carry...Because when seconds count help is only minutes away**

Online ironglow

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It would be nice to go cold turkey on our CO2 producing habits. That's impractical so we have to attack it incrementally.
 
What do I do at the moment?
We drive two fuel sippers
We keep the thermostats down and work to make the house tighter
We buy wind produced electric. That costs extra
We use public transportation and ride bikes or walk as much as possible
We recycle and reuse as much as feasible
We buy local produce when in season
We have regular discussions with the kids about climate change (indoctrination sessions)
We never vote for candidates that are too dumb to recognize climate change
We pray for the day when we can welcome those poor misguided souls blinded by religious dogma into the light  ;)
 
In the future I hope to do more
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  twooobie;
  I'm sure many have been  wondering who you pray to?    Being as your religion is  Global Warming..who is your god?  Do you pray to Gaia, St Gore, Barack Universe..or what.  Who/what is your chief diety?
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline mechanic

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TM7,
 
I don't believe that all will be made right in the next age, I believe it will all be burned up, both the earth and the heavens above as Peter relates in the scripture.  However, I still am not convinced of MAN MADE global warming.  The Vikings were growing grapes in Greenland a thousand years ago, and a couple hundred years ago we were in a mini ice age.  The earth may well be warming, but the causal evidence does not fit.  A couple decades ago it was ozone that was gonna' kill us, now it's CO2.  Either or both might, but IS IT MAN MADE, or natural processes.  The most voluminous 'greenhouse' gas is water vapor.  We have oceans, and there is evaporation.  What should we do?
 
The temperature curves do not at all follow the CO2 on a graph.  Why?
 
I believe God made us caretaker over our home, but we are limited in what we can and cannot do.  We are not God.
 
Ben
Molon Labe, (King Leonidas of the Spartan Army)

Offline two-blocked

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TM7,
 
You might be interested in this research paper:
 
 Religious Views on Climate Change Mitigation
http://www.cissm.umd.edu/papers/files/religious_views_on_climate_change_mitigation__jonas_siegel__final.pdf[/url]
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Offline two-blocked

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It would be nice to go cold turkey on our CO2 producing habits. That's impractical so we have to attack it incrementally.
 
What do I do at the moment?
.............................
We pray for the day when we can welcome those poor misguided souls blinded by religious dogma into the light  ;)
 
In the future I hope to do more
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 
  twooobie;
  I'm sure many have been  wondering who you pray to?    Being as your religion is  Global Warming..who is your god?  Do you pray to Gaia, St Gore, Barack Universe..or what.  Who/what is your chief diety?

As stated above, "I'm good with God"
FYI- That's who'll be judging me, not some self-anointed, grandstanding, bellicose deceiver. ;)

Offline Mike in Virginia

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Twoblocked, with respect, I ask you again:  Are you or are you not a Democrat?  Did you vote for Obama?  Your posts indicate you are a strong Christian.  But many here believe your views are skewed.  You've said what you do personally do protect the environment, and that's commendable.  You also said you vote for whomever shares that view. 
 
So, I'm asking you personally, even though this is a public forum, are you a Democrat and did you vote for Obama in this last election?  I earlier felt your hesitation to answer that for whatever reason.  It is certainly no one's business.  But still, I'm asking. If you believe as strongly as you seem to in manmade global warming, I'd think you would be proud to answer. 

Online ironglow

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It would be nice to go cold turkey on our CO2 producing habits. That's impractical so we have to attack it incrementally.
 
What do I do at the moment?
.............................
We pray for the day when we can welcome those poor misguided souls blinded by religious dogma into the light  ;)
 
In the future I hope to do more
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 
  twooobie;
  I'm sure many have been  wondering who you pray to?    Being as your religion is  Global Warming..who is your god?  Do you pray to Gaia, St Gore, Barack Universe..or what.  Who/what is your chief diety?

As stated above, "I'm good with God"
FYI- That's who'll be judging me, not some self-anointed, grandstanding, bellicose deceiver. ;)
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  Correction:  ... I never claimed Al Gore, Gov Moonbeam, Barbra Streisand, Anglia U.  or any other "warmie" would be judging you!
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Online ironglow

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Mr. Two-blocked,,,,   please understand the evangelical and fundie types don't give a damn about this here God's creation we all live in right now except to rule over it..  They claim God gave 'dominion' over the planet and environment to do whatever is desired with our environment regardless; and moreover, they're busy preparing for the next millennium when all is made 'right' 9according to their liturgy).  This is not tongue-in-cheek or meant to be humorous,,,this is why they and their co-religionists don't care or consider the environment to be of much importance.  This is a fact, and its very selfish, and sad.
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..TM7
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  TM;
  With what you wrote above, you just demonstrated a fact many of us are already well aware of.  That is, that when it comes to the genuine Christian belief and lifestyle, you are woefully ignorant on the subject.
  ...And you just showed it very clearly.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline mcwoodduck

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Mr. Two-blocked,,,,   please understand the evangelical and fundie types don't give a damn about this here God's creation we all live in right now except to rule over it..  They claim God gave 'dominion' over the planet and environment to do whatever is desired with our environment regardless; and moreover, they're busy preparing for the next millennium when all is made 'right' 9according to their liturgy).  This is not tongue-in-cheek or meant to be humorous,,,this is why they and their co-religionists don't care or consider the environment to be of much importance.  This is a fact, and its very selfish, and sad.
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..TM7
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  TM;
  With what you wrote above, you just demonstrated a fact many of us are already well aware of.  That is, that when it comes to the genuine Christian belief and lifestyle, you are woefully ignorant on the subject.
  ...And you just showed it very clearly.
.
Good then...coming from you_ _means I put another in the 10 ring.. ;D ..thanx for confirming.  Now go read two-blocked's link he provided...Its obvious why tribbers don't much care for environment stewardship (aside from their own personal plot)_ _its b/c they think its all going to be wasted anyway, duh!..!!
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..TM7
But taking care of their plot isn't that the Global Warming Mantra.  Think Globally  act locally. 
And I hate to tell you but the government model does not work.  The Capitalist model does work. 
In Capitalism we have Ducks Unlimited that has bought millions of acers of wetlands and keeps them for all to use.
In the Government model we have national parks that are off limits unless it is the Sierra clubs benefit and then they trash the place.
In the capitalist model we have dolphin safe tuna. 
The govenment model is still use of the nets that kill Dolphins by other than US fishing boats in US waters. 
You can not hve it both ways.  Either the people are taking care of their small section of god's green earth and they are acting selfish or they are acting locally.  I guess there is no pleasing a liberal.  Giving you want you want and you will still want more. 
The standard Liberal Questions.
What level of taxes is too much?
What level of polution is OK?  Knowing that making anything will cause some level. 

Online ironglow

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Mr. Two-blocked,,,,   please understand the evangelical and fundie types don't give a damn about this here God's creation we all live in right now except to rule over it..  They claim God gave 'dominion' over the planet and environment to do whatever is desired with our environment regardless; and moreover, they're busy preparing for the next millennium when all is made 'right' 9according to their liturgy).  This is not tongue-in-cheek or meant to be humorous,,,this is why they and their co-religionists don't care or consider the environment to be of much importance.  This is a fact, and its very selfish, and sad.
.
.
..TM7
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
  TM;
  With what you wrote above, you just demonstrated a fact many of us are already well aware of.  That is, that when it comes to the genuine Christian belief and lifestyle, you are woefully ignorant on the subject.
  ...And you just showed it very clearly.
.
Good then...coming from you_ _means I put another in the 10 ring.. ;D ..thanx for confirming.  Now go read two-blocked's link he provided...Its obvious why tribbers don't much care for environment stewardship (aside from their own personal plot)_ _its b/c they think its all going to be wasted anyway, duh!..!!
.
.
..TM7
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  Sure..I should listen to 2 guys who have just proven they don't know of which they speak ! ;) ;D
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: Attention Flat-Earthers- CO2 levels set record- and it ain't volcanoes!
« Reply #100 on: June 10, 2013, 09:36:29 AM »
MCWD...why the attempt at thread re-direct and your usual 'corpos are great narrative'.? Or is this more computer algorithm generated narrative..?... :) ... Fact is the corpos and capitalists are primarily responsible for most all environment degradation on the planet....that and many military operations. And its not surprising that a couple of outfits (Ducks Unlimited is non-profit and socially organized I believe) or tuna fishing corps finally discover their better (economic) interest overlap with the very environments they exploit...
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This thread is about global climate change, its plausibility, who and who doesn't accept the theory, and why....and if it is human influenced...
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...TM7
DU was founded in 1937 to buy up Canadian wetlands and Stop a Canadian government program that was helping farmers drain the wetlands to claim them as farm lands.  In doing this they were not only killing water fowel but many other species that live and trive in the swamps. 
What you fail to see is that what ever DU has become it started out as a group of hunters and non hunters that banded together, pooled money and bought the lands that were being drained and saved the swamps.  Saving more than just ducks to hunt.
And no matter what you feel the real answer is that government does not help it creates larger problems that they then try to solve creating bigger and bigger problems.  Remember Teddy Kenedy stood up and anounced wiht the passage of a health care act that formed HMO and PPO providers that we have no fixed the health care problems in America.  Only to cause the problems that have lead to the miserable Obama care that will cause more problems. 
Government is at odds with the population.  They want to control the people they are supose to serve.  Unfortunatly some like you think we need ot be told what to do.  Like I have said before Liberals love liberalism untill they are subjected to liberalism then they fight back.    You really should have some one focus your rantings on your life and see how well it works and how unhappy you are when all desicions are taken from you in the name of the common good.
 

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Attention Flat-Earthers- CO2 levels set record- and it ain't volcanoes!
« Reply #101 on: June 10, 2013, 10:10:45 AM »
Most of us are already doing our share to cut CO2 emmissions.
 
We plan our trips to get all we need at several stores in one trip with grocery store being last.
We grow a lot of our own veggetables. 
We hunt and use deer, rabbit, quail, turkey, squirrel, and dove. 
We buy in bulk and repackage.
We set our air conditioning on 80 in the summer and 60 in the winter. 
We have replaced most of our light bulbs. 
We are looking into downsizing when I retire and build a semiunderground home.
I reload, I sell my aluminum cans for reloading and fishing tackle money.  I have everyone at work give me their cans in one place, so it is easy to gather up a bag full every friday. 
 
I would venture to say almost ALL Americans are doing their share to cut co2 emmissions just by saving, cutting back or something.  So what makes us frustrated about the Green god worshipers is their push to have the big government get involved and MANDATE stuff.  Why?  The free market will take care of itself, always has without government interference.  When natural rubber was cut off from SE Asian markets by the Japanese in WWII, our American companies made synthetic rubber for tires and found out it was better than natural.  When steel got too expensive, plastics, wood, and composite materials took over, as well as cheaper aluminum, which also uses less fuel to smelt than steel. 
 
Natural gas has passed coal as the leading producer of electricity today.  It puts out only 20-30% of the CO2 for the same energy as coal. 
 
America is already cutting back on CO2 without government taxes, etc.  Why don't you guys start preaching to China.  They are polluting more and producing more CO2 and have a huge population. 
 
If everyone in a suburb or small town would have a Victory garden and use natural fertilizers, leaves, and grass clippings, and earthworms, they could produce their own natural fertilizers, grow their own veggies, all would cut back on imported food, transportation, and synthetic fertilizers for the mass produced food. 
 
Lots of preppers and survivalists are already contribution to lower CO2 levels, so we are really tired of MORE BIG GOVERNMENT, when encouragement of LOTS of little things would have a tremendous effect. 
 
How many of you guys save your deer skins?  I send mine off to a tanner who charges about $10 a skin to dehair it and it is soft, smooth on one size, and swede on the other.  You can make vests, coats, chaps, etc out of your deer skins.  Learn how to tan, and make your own, and your own rabbit skins, etc.
 
So, in my opinion, Global Warmers are only pushing BIG GOVERNMENT and WORLD GOVERNMENT over our lives, has nothing to do with actual Global Warming. 
 
Why don't they push victory gardens, and home grown food?  Why aren't they pushing natural gas as an alternative transportation fuel, that can cut imports and CO2 emmissions in half in just a few years of conversion activity?  Electric cars will eventually come, right now the whole auto industry is geared to piston production vehicles, so for the next 20 years or so, why not use natural gas?  Fleets first. 
 
Cutting CO2 emmissions, cutting oil imports, and producing more American jobs all in one package, natural gas? 
 
Give us tax credits for purchase of seeds, garden tools, tillers, tractors, etc, to make us more self sufficient in food production.  Same with tax credits for say florescent lights, insuallation, wood burning fire places or heaters, solar, wind, natural gas vehicles, etc.  No need to have a big government program, just tax credits alone would jump start a lot of this. 
 
If you global warmers want to do good, start complaining more about CHINA, INDIA, and the developing nations burning coal. 
 
Also, push for thorium nuclear reactors to replace coal burners.  Thorium can't be made into bombs, and it has a very short nuclear decay in months rather than centuries.  It is also more plentiful in the world than uranium.  Give tax credits for research and development of thorium reactors.  Fusion is still a long ways off for practicality.  Germany is way ahead in development of thorium to replace their uranium reactors.
 
Get specific about solutions and push for these instead of some big Government mandate or project. 
 
Wind is not for everyone.  The deep south and the lower midwest does not have enough sustained wind power for practical wind generation. 
 
Solar is also not for everyone, especially in the east where we have more cloudy days, rain and snow. 
 
So, thorium reactors, natural gas vehicles, and home grown veggies can cut about 80% of our CO2 emmissions without government mandates, just tax credits and R&D development for private companies which doesn't create some more government bureaucracies to do it for us.  Let us do it, just give us the tools and get out of the way.   

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: Attention Flat-Earthers- CO2 levels set record- and it ain't volcanoes!
« Reply #102 on: June 10, 2013, 10:54:55 AM »
So what MCWD?  And kudos to DU, a social and cooperative solution to a business resource exploitation problem. All socialized solutions don't have to be gov sponsored as you claim.
Now with your permission, lets get back to global climate change, like DD is doing.
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..TM7
I am all for Reduce reuse and recycle.  As long as they make economic sense. 
But thinking we can do anything about climate chage or global warming is folly.  If you look at earths history the poles have changed, the earth has been cold, it has been hot all long before People were on the earth.  People did not cause the last Ice age, and people did not cause the mini ice age or the warming that caused the renasance. 
The problem with you flat earthers is you actually think you cna make a difference based on an unproven and flawed hypothasis. 
One of the problems we have here in the US is we need so much fuel to maintain and grow our economy.  But somehow you think we can conserve below that point.  It would be like needing 1,000 calories to live and you liberals simply telling everyone we cna diet our way out of a famine and that we can all have 800 calories or less.  We need fuel to move and make goods and raw materials.  The higher you raise the costs of that fuel with the silly man made global warming lie the worse off people will be. 
And if we really did have man made global warming you should be screaming for only American made products as they have the least amount of impact on the earth,  instead you are trying to drive production off our shores.  You are complaining that the religous are the problem when they are doing what you said and acting locally and you call it selfish and irresponsible.
Do you see the problem we all have with your crazy ideas and lack of a single message? 
Either CO2 is bad or it is not, if it is bad then we shpould make things here in the US that are cleaner.
If CO2 were bad then why are the people telling us how to live and cut back still flying on private jets, still driving in Limos, still building nad living in huge inefficient houses? 
You also have the data collection problem, where over 2/3rds of the data collection sites are faulty and near a heat source. 
You have the Climate gate e-mails that were leaked.  But I know that was a conspericy by the wold polluters and not whistle blowing right?  Can you name the world conspericy of polluters?  You know they live here on earth too right?
And the biggest problem I have with the Man made global warming cult is that they do not take into account the SUN into their calclations.  When we do a heat calculation to see waht heat is needed we have to take the sun, the south facing walls and the amount of glass into the calc.  But to see if the world is getting warmer do to man made activity or if it is the SUN you need to rule one out.
Oh and the Man made global warming model does not use scientific methode to prove or disprove the hyposthisis.  They just accept it as fact. 
Then we have the change from Man made global warming to man made Climate change because the data did not support their hypothisis or model. 
We have people working on emotion about a couple of drowned polar bear cubs that died in a storm as the false idea that he ice is melting and making it harder for them to eat. 
Most of you Man made global warming people are also anti religon and call them fools for believing because someone told them, and yet you swallow the bold face lies as facts and truth and you believe them.  With Al Gore as your Pope and many off shoots that are the Martin Luthers of your religon. 
 
 
 

Offline two-blocked

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Re: Attention Flat-Earthers- CO2 levels set record- and it ain't volcanoes!
« Reply #103 on: June 10, 2013, 11:29:17 AM »
China and India are problems. They're just starting to be addressed
 
US and China Agree to Phase Out Super Greenhouse Gases
 
http://news.yahoo.com/us-china-agree-phase-super-greenhouse-gases-210600376.html

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: Attention Flat-Earthers- CO2 levels set record- and it ain't volcanoes!
« Reply #104 on: June 10, 2013, 11:52:02 AM »
China and India are problems. They're just starting to be addressed
 
US and China Agree to Phase Out Super Greenhouse Gases
 
http://news.yahoo.com/us-china-agree-phase-super-greenhouse-gases-210600376.html
It says phase out.  If manmade global warming was a real issue then why are you not demanding that it be curtailed NOW.  Or made in the US that have already curtailed the emmissions to acceptable levels? 
Either it is a big problem or it is not.  If it is not a big problem then it is more proof to me that you are promoting the Hoax for other ideas or goals. 

Offline DDZ

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Re: Attention Flat-Earthers- CO2 levels set record- and it ain't volcanoes!
« Reply #105 on: June 10, 2013, 12:06:08 PM »
two-blocked....interesting paper, , , average judaeo-christian probably doesn't want to think much about global climate change or other environmental issues_ _just think it s God's plan and all will be made right after the millennial coming.  So they don't much bother or care about such thoughts and discount scientific data as 'satanic' mishmash coming from libbies, special interst, and such. And a lot of that is true no doubt...like the carbon tax-market.  So they wash their hands of such investigations and rule them invalid and grasp on to the status quo..
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As for me, I would consider human influenced global climate change plausible and worthy of study, given 7.5 billion humans, a tenth of the world covered and paved, and the prevalent use of fossil fuels, etc., etc. equals a net gain in heat...
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 Sad fact is global climate change will likely be used to further oppress human beings, when instead it could be used to liberate human beings.
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....TM7

I see the paper is written with questions, with the assumption there is man made global warming. The idea that Christians don't care about the environment, because they all are not hopping on the man made global warming band wagon is a lie. You TM and 2B talk as man made global warming is a fact, as your post above indicates. There is no scientific data that proves there is man caused global warming. What scientific data does prove is that the earth has warmed and cooled in the past. Long before we were burning fossil fuels. Its data that the man made global warming crowd doesn't like to talk about.
Why is there such a desire to claim any warming is man caused? Just look at what organizations have already claimed man caused global warming is the truth without question. They are all leftist organizations. Why is government trying to force the idea? Christians are just sceptical of these organizations that are saturated with the humanist world view. By no means does that imply that Christians don't care about the environment. In fact I think Christians are better stewards of the environment than most. They just are not as apt to fall for leftist lies based on the idea of extracting more money out of our pockets.               
Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.    Wm. Penn

Offline two-blocked

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Re: Attention Flat-Earthers- CO2 levels set record- and it ain't volcanoes!
« Reply #106 on: June 12, 2013, 06:09:21 AM »
I'm having to kick butt on two threads.  ;D
That link was in Todays News:
Climate Change Threatens America’s National Security
http://news.yahoo.com/op-ed-climate-change-threatens-america-national-security-005839959.html;_ylt=AwrNUbJTmrVRclQAooX_wgt.

Offline Mike in Virginia

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Re: Attention Flat-Earthers- CO2 levels set record- and it ain't volcanoes!
« Reply #107 on: June 12, 2013, 01:15:40 PM »
Let me ask this again; I never did get an answer, or perhaps I framed my response more as a statement.
 
Regarding coal and oil (which when used produces emissions), why are those two elements in the earth?  Are they an accident?  Are they simply a byproduct of elapsed time?  Or are they a gift from God, like every other natural resource He gave us.  They are both in such ample supply, and both so very useful for His children's comfort, I can't imagine coal and oil being anything but a gift to be used. 
 
Even if the emissions from using those gifts pollutes the air, the good earth will not be destroyed any sooner or any later than God determined from the time He made it.  The earth renews itself and will continue to do so until we are called away. 
 
If you don't believe that the earth is short lived (in the sense of time), think about the solar energy Obama and his followers are all about.  The sun itself is on fire.  The gasses it burns can't last forever.  Like any star, it will burn out. 
 
Don't be concerned.  We and our children and our great, great, great grandchildren have a home that ain't here.  I say use what God gave us to use, just the same as we gnaw on the carcasses of dead deer and every other consumable thing God gave us to consume.  It's for us and no one else. 
 
That said, I don't mean we shouldn't be good stewards.  We have an obligation to take care of any gift from God.  But not to use it at all, is just a stupid political notion from Democrats and hippies that thrive on lies and ignorance. 

Offline ChungDoQuan

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Re: Attention Flat-Earthers- CO2 levels set record- and it ain't volcanoes!
« Reply #108 on: June 12, 2013, 02:54:22 PM »
Where in the bible does it say to make the planet unsuitable for human life? You fundys are frightening--- you don't give a rat's azz about the world, because you're going somewhere else, and (quite literally) to hell with the rest of us.
If you give up, THEY don't have to win.

"'Cause what they do in Washington, they just take care of number 1. And number 1 ain't you. $__t, you ain't even number 2!" Frank Zappa

The greatest idea the right ever had is personal responsibility; the greatest idea the left ever had is social responsibility. Both take effort.

The Founding Fathers had complete access to the Bible, but they came up with the Constitution as our governing document.

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: Attention Flat-Earthers- CO2 levels set record- and it ain't volcanoes!
« Reply #109 on: June 12, 2013, 04:06:15 PM »
Where in the bible does it say to make the planet unsuitable for human life? You fundys are frightening--- you don't give a rat's azz about the world, because you're going somewhere else, and (quite literally) to hell with the rest of us.
So we can not use Coal, we can not use Oil, and we can not use Nukes for power and fuel.
What do you suggest we use.
You would need a Solar Farm the size of Nebraska to power the country, 
We have great places for windfarms that the Liberal Elite like Ted Kennedy did not want to allow to be built as it would ruin his view. 
And Natural gas when burned creates Heat, CO2, and Water vapor.  Is'nt CO2 what all you no growth globers say is killing the climate? 
So what is your over simple cure for the problems?

Offline two-blocked

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Re: Attention Flat-Earthers- CO2 levels set record- and it ain't volcanoes!
« Reply #110 on: June 12, 2013, 05:59:39 PM »
Does God really care how we use our natural resources?
 
God does care about how we treat the earth which He has given us for a home. When God created man and woman, the Bible tells us, "God blessed them and said to them, 'Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground" (Genesis 1:28).

He placed Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden "to work it and take care of it" (Genesis 2:15).

God gave us natural resources to use to make our lives better, but He also gave us the ability to exercise wisdom in our use of these resources. As Mr. Graham has pointed out, "The Bible also warns against the misuse of those resources or exploiting them in the wrong or greedy way. You see, how we use (or misuse) our resources affects other people as well as ourselves. If we waste the earth's resources today, we will be harming our children and grandchildren. Jesus said, 'In everything, do to others what you would have them do to you' (Matthew 7:12). This can be applied to the way we treat our earth and its resources as well as our ordinary relationships."
 
http://www.billygraham.org/articlepage.asp?articleid=2096

Offline ChungDoQuan

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Re: Attention Flat-Earthers- CO2 levels set record- and it ain't volcanoes!
« Reply #111 on: June 13, 2013, 02:06:44 AM »
None of that translates to "destroy the environment and make the world uninhabitable."
If you give up, THEY don't have to win.

"'Cause what they do in Washington, they just take care of number 1. And number 1 ain't you. $__t, you ain't even number 2!" Frank Zappa

The greatest idea the right ever had is personal responsibility; the greatest idea the left ever had is social responsibility. Both take effort.

The Founding Fathers had complete access to the Bible, but they came up with the Constitution as our governing document.

Offline two-blocked

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Re: Attention Flat-Earthers- CO2 levels set record- and it ain't volcanoes!
« Reply #112 on: June 13, 2013, 06:26:14 AM »
We need to get some more nuclear reactors under construction!
 
"Pandora's Promise" asks us to rethink nuclear energy
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-205_162-57589019/pandoras-promise-asks-us-to-rethink-nuclear-energy/
 
Seeking Constructive Debate on Nuclear Energy
http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/13/welcoming-a-real-debate-about-nuclear-power/?ref=science
 

Offline ChungDoQuan

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Re: Attention Flat-Earthers- CO2 levels set record- and it ain't volcanoes!
« Reply #113 on: June 13, 2013, 08:19:43 AM »
Coal and petroleum?>  Stop gap technology from an earlier age, lets move ahead forward as 'God' intended..  You guys see that young high school girl that got a national science award for designing a nano thin super capacitor that can charge your cell phone in 20 seconds?
.
.
..TM7

She was not home schooled, either--- in fact she's in public school.  ;)

If you give up, THEY don't have to win.

"'Cause what they do in Washington, they just take care of number 1. And number 1 ain't you. $__t, you ain't even number 2!" Frank Zappa

The greatest idea the right ever had is personal responsibility; the greatest idea the left ever had is social responsibility. Both take effort.

The Founding Fathers had complete access to the Bible, but they came up with the Constitution as our governing document.

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Attention Flat-Earthers- CO2 levels set record- and it ain't volcanoes!
« Reply #114 on: June 13, 2013, 11:21:25 AM »
I gave a solution to satisfy everyone, but do Democrats want to compromise?  NO  Do wacko environmentalists want to compromise?  NO
 
1) Use our abundant supply of natural gas for fleet vehicles.  Sure, it is a fossil fuel.  However the cleanest most abundant to use and the lowest costs.  Fleets include government vehicles, buses, utility trucks, UPS, postal delivery, garbage trucks etc.  This can be done NOW, this can be PHASED in with vehicle replacements.  Is is AMERICAN PRODUCED, and would keep jobs and MONEY HERE instead of the pockets of foreigners.  It produces 60% LESS carbon dioxide per unit of power delivered vs gasoline or diesel or coal. 
 
2) Build thorium reactors to produce power instead of uranium/plutonium reactors.  Decay life of thorium is months instead of centuries.  No meltdowns with pebble bed reactors.  More abundant than uranium, and CANNOT be made into bombs. 
 
Doing both would reduce our carbon dioxide output by multitudes and vehicles can be phased in while thorium reactors might take 10 years or so if we started today.
 
In order to keep coal miners and the coal industry going, build coal gasification plants to make synthetic diesel. 
 
Result would keep Americans working, keep money at home, stimulate the economy in the energy sector with good paying jobs, and by keeping money at home get more into circulation for spending thus creating more jobs and more tax revenue.
 
It would however require tax breaks for natural gas conversion, coal gasification plants, and thorium reactors.  It could be offset by tarriffs on imported oil. 
 
Problem is wackos in charge see natural gas as a fossil fuel even if we have a 200 year supply that would last us until new technologies can come on line cheaply.  Also wackos are also against all things nuclear, even if thorium is far safer. 
 
Future new technologies that I see that are not yet cost effective, is algae oil (carbon neutral), flywheel assisted acceleration instead of lithium batteries for hybrids, lighter materials for vehicles, semi-underground home building. 
 
Flywheels only help about 20% vs hybrids 30-40% with lithium batteries.  However, steel flywheels are far cheaper to make than batteries, yet can increase mileage by 20% if use began today.  Only company I know of that is experimenting with this now is Jaguar in England who said in their prototype care it got an average 20% better fuel economy at only a few hundred dollars per car increase. 

Semi-underground homes would require little in the way of heating and air conditioning thus saving both electricity and natural gas.  This also would require approval of loans for energy efficient alternative contruction. 
 
Another thing I saw about flywheels is a plan to build 300' diameter flywheels partially burried next to all power plants.  When power use is low, the power plant continues to operate at maximum output to turn these giant flywheels.  When peek power is needed, they kick in to release power to supplement the power plant.  If all plants had these flywheels next to them, maximum power output could increase by 1/3 thus no new plants would be needed for several years.  Just putting these beside the existing nuclear plants, natural gas plants and hydro and wind power plants would virtually eliminate coal useage now. 
 
Coal being abundant, would be converted to synthetic diesel and gasoline for what vehicles would continue to use them.  Oil companies would be encouraged to invest in these alternatives to stay in business. 
 

Offline KIMBER45

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Re: Attention Flat-Earthers- CO2 levels set record- and it ain't volcanoes!
« Reply #115 on: June 13, 2013, 01:48:53 PM »
Let me ask this again; I never did get an answer, or perhaps I framed my response more as a statement.
 
Regarding coal and oil (which when used produces emissions), why are those two elements in the earth?  Are they an accident?  Are they simply a byproduct of elapsed time?  Or are they a gift from God, like every other natural resource He gave us.  They are both in such ample supply, and both so very useful for His children's comfort, I can't imagine coal and oil being anything but a gift to be used. 
 
Even if the emissions from using those gifts pollutes the air, the good earth will not be destroyed any sooner or any later than God determined from the time He made it.  The earth renews itself and will continue to do so until we are called away. 
 
If you don't believe that the earth is short lived (in the sense of time), think about the solar energy Obama and his followers are all about.  The sun itself is on fire.  The gasses it burns can't last forever.  Like any star, it will burn out. 
 
Don't be concerned.  We and our children and our great, great, great grandchildren have a home that ain't here.  I say use what God gave us to use, just the same as we gnaw on the carcasses of dead deer and every other consumable thing God gave us to consume.  It's for us and no one else. 
 
That said, I don't mean we shouldn't be good stewards.  We have an obligation to take care of any gift from God.  But not to use it at all, is just a stupid political notion from Democrats and hippies that thrive on lies and ignorance.
Regarding coal and oil (which when used produces emissions), why are those two elements in the earth?
1. Coal and oil are  NOT  elements.
2. Ask the people in the large cities in China about air pollution. There was a report of a building burning for hours before anyone realized it was on fire. That's how bad the air is polluted.Factory fire goes unnoticed for 3 hours amid thick smog in Zhejiang ...www.whatsonsanya.comNewsChina National News
  • Jan 16, 2013 – Factory fire goes unnoticed for 3 hours amid thick smog in Zhejiang ... Air pollution is a major problem in China due to the country's rapid industrialisation. ... Xinhua said the party's promise to build a beautiful China was "in jeopardy". ... not burn coal, and also cutting down on car use in the city," he told AFP.
"In the final analysis, it is between you and God.  It was never between you and them anyway."__Mother Theresa
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Not everyone will understand your journey. That"s fine. It's not their journey to make sense of. It's yours.
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Hawkeye: My father warned me about you...
Chingachgook, he warned me about people like you. He said "Do not try to understand them".
 "do not try to make them understand you. That is because they are a breed apart and make no sense".
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Offline Mike in Virginia

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Re: Attention Flat-Earthers- CO2 levels set record- and it ain't volcanoes!
« Reply #116 on: June 13, 2013, 02:42:00 PM »
I know coal and oil are not elements.  Wrong word.  Sorry.
 
Still, we have huge masses of both.  Why do you think that is? 
 
And who has any control over what Chinese do?  We can get as green as a bullfrog, but it won't matter if China does not, and they won't.  That said, going green is political hype developed recently and means nothing.  It costs more to recycle a plastic bottle than it does to make a new one.  And where do you suppose the energy comes from to charge the batteries in yuppie hybrid cars?  Burning good old coal and oil. 
 
As for me, I'm keeping my gasaholic truck and make as many trips as I please when I might have done it all in one.  I'm not rolling up my windows just because the a/c is on.  I burn trash outside.  I pour used motor oil on my gravel driveway to keep the dust down.  I keep my thermostat on 70 in the summer, and 80 in the winter.  It's my life, and my money and my choice.  The more I'm told by the gov't how to live, the more I'll do the opposite.  I'm not the least concerned about increasing the CO2 levels.  I know for sure that manmade climate change is a hoax. 

Offline two-blocked

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Re: Attention Flat-Earthers- CO2 levels set record- and it ain't volcanoes!
« Reply #117 on: June 13, 2013, 05:30:59 PM »
Rock on dude! It's still America and it's still legal to be an obstinate old crank! ;) :D ;D
However I am going to do my best to do my duty to mend your ways and counter you actions via the ballot box and public opinion.
Consider yourself warned. ;)

Offline two-blocked

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Re: Attention Flat-Earthers- CO2 levels set record- and it ain't volcanoes!
« Reply #118 on: June 13, 2013, 07:05:48 PM »

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Attention Flat-Earthers- CO2 levels set record- and it ain't volcanoes!
« Reply #119 on: June 14, 2013, 01:51:23 AM »
Problem with the liberals.  They want change immediately.  They want to FORCE people to change.  They want a big government program to do it, even if global warming was true, their way to make the changes are Force, Big Government, and Immediately which is more costly and people can't afford it and it doesn't compete yet with current technology and us.
 
My way doesn't involve big government except tax credits where it will do the MOST good for the LEAST cost.  We can't change overnight, but we do have alternatives and most of the infrastructure is ALREADY in place.  Natural gas is available almost everywhere, especially in the most crowded areas.  A compressor station can be installed in a few days.  GM, Chrysler, and Ford can make CNG vehicles off the assembly line now, we already order the trucks for our fleet straight from the factory.  Government could lead the way by converting their own vehicles first, then when the more CNG compressor stations are installed, people like Fed Ex and UPS can convert theirs and already have in some place.
 
Thorium reactors have been around since the 1960's.  However all nuclear fuel is processed and made by the government and they were in Uranium and Plutonium big time back then for bombs, so all the reactors were built to use Uranium and Plutonium.  Thorium production can be cranked back up and the government can speed up approval of thorium power reactors.  It will not take that long, but in 15-20 years enough of them could be built by power companies with tax credits to completely eliminate coal burning power plants.  Then like I said, to eliminate imported oil, build coal gasification plants to produce synthetic liquid fuels.  All fossil fuel burning vehicles aren't going away overnight.  Planes can last for 20 years, diesel trucks for years, diesel earth moving equipment lasts for 20-30 years.  So, we will have a need for diesel, jet fuel, and gasoline for another 50 years.  Lets quit importing it, keep the money at home creating jobs.  Natural gas will not completely take over fuel use for vehicles, but can at least take between 25-40% of them. 
 
My ideas would drastically cut coal burning emissions over a 10-30 year period, drastically cut gasoline burning and a lot of diesel burning.  Using flywheels made from steel wire compressed, reviving the steel industry, to assist power plants, and for vehicle acceleration assistance would further cut emissions.  All can be phased in, using tax credits, and taxes.  No FORCING, but Encouraging from the feds.  Some of my ideas would actually cut costs, like CNG is actually much cheaper than gasoline.  Synthetic fuel from coal can probably be made for $50 a barrel, once the plants to produce it are built.  It is just going to take some investment capital to get started, capital without capital gains taxes, and with tax credits.  People do use these tax credits when available, like to insulate their homes, or install more efficient equipment, when they are available.