why do folks in the south hold a 150+ year old grudge?

[ChungDoQuan]

So MUCH spin! Slavery was well established by the early 1500s in the new world--- do you really think the black people should just let it slide before 1650 because it was Spaniards instead of English who were enslaving them? And the first slaves owned by Englishmen were in the 1600s. By 1650 25% of people in America WERE BLACK SLAVES. Get your story straight.

[FPH]

Don't you mean their own people were selling them into slavery?  Not saying we were blameless, but we weren't the only ones to blame.

[scootrd]

Scooterd,


  That is an interesting statistic.  As for federal disaster relief (aid), I believe you are probably correct.  In the past two decades far more natural disasters have happened in the deep South than in other places. (Though New Jersey is about to catch up due to the recent hurricane.)


  But as far as gross federal dollars spent, I am highly doubtful.  .......

   Mannyrock

Feel free to look it up and research.

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2004/09/red_states_feed.html

 http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jan/26/blog-posting/red-state-socialism-graphic-says-gop-leaning-state/

Peace


States Receiving Least in Federal Spending Per Dollar of Federal Taxes Paid:

1.

New Jersey ($0.62)
 2. Connecticut ($0.64)
 3. New Hampshire ($0.68)
 4. Nevada ($0.73)
 5. Illinois ($0.77)
 6. Minnesota ($0.77)
 7. Colorado ($0.79)
 8. Massachusetts ($0.79)
 9. California ($0.81)
 10. New York ($0.81)

Source Tax foundation.org

[Mike in Virginia]

scootrd - you live in NJ? 

[FPH]

I  believe the NM amounts.....we have unmarried kids having kids and living off the Government coming out the wazsoo.....and voting straight ticket Demo..

[scootrd]

scootrd - you live in NJ? 

No VT , but I hate this whole North against South grudge crap.

and if someone or some state is in need you help out  irregardless of red state / blue state ...period.
If you can afford to give more , then give more.

I was just making a point. 

We are not north and south ..

Were all Americans.

[FPH]

scootrd - you live in NJ? 

No VT , but I hate this whole North against South crap.

Were all Americans.

Actually, with that I have to agree......We lost.....get over it.

[Oldshooter]

No,sadly we will prolly never get over it because there will always be cdq's out there, stirring the pot, that blame slavery on the people still living today and the people that are at least 3 generations from slavery still want to have that crutch. Notice he didn't mention the white slaves that were here before the black ones, thats because it dont fit the pot stirring and that just wont do. go away! STIR someone else's pot! or whistle Dixie

[wganz]

Having to send a % of the property tax collected to the federal government until the late 1950's didn't help matters.

[LONGTOM]

I will tell you all what I hate.
I hate being forced to honor the heritage of the blacks (MLK Day) but not being able to honor my Southern Heritage by flying a Rebel flag with out being called raciest.
What did he do for me.
I am sure he was a great man to the blacks and they have a right to show him honor but not to force me to honor him.
I don't force them to honor the south.
I will listen to their side and explane my side but I will not force my side on them nor will I let them force theirs on me.
Well they can call me what they want because I fly my Rebel flag right along side the American flag on the back of my van, both my trucks and my bike.
To me it's not about racism or slavery, it about honoring MY SOUTHERN HERITAGE just the same as them honoring their black heritage.
Slavery was a dark part of this countries past and should not be forgotten but that was a long time ago.
Don't forget that it was a black that sold the first slaves.
There were slaves in the north also.
There were even a few wealthy blacks that owned slaves and yes, they were in the north, so it's not all one sided as many would lead you to believe.
 
 
LONGTOM

[ChungDoQuan]

I'm not blaming anybody for anything. I'm just saying that, if you southerners want respect for your own stance on the aspects of the Civil War that you hold so dear, you have to show the same respect for those who were enslaved. It's the continuation of racism that stands in the way of your gaining that respect. Just like mainstream muslims will have to publicly and vociferously denounce muslim radicals to be taken seriously by the rest of the world, so shall you have to do the same to those old south supporters who are racists--- THEY are the ones getting the press; they are your face to the rest of the world.

[scootrd]

I will tell you all what I hate.
I hate being forced to honor the heritage of the blacks (MLK Day) but not being able to honor my Southern Heritage by flying a Rebel flag with out being called raciest.
What did he do for me.
I am sure he was a great man to the blacks and they have a right to show him honor but not to force me to honor him.
I don't force them to honor the south.
I will listen to their side and explane my side but I will not force my side on them nor will I let them force theirs on me.
Well they can call me what they want because I fly my Rebel flag right along side the American flag on the back of my van, both my trucks and my bike.
To me it's not about racism or slavery, it about honoring MY SOUTHERN HERITAGE just the same as them honoring their black heritage.
Slavery was a dark part of this countries past and should not be forgotten but that was a long time ago.
Don't forget that it was a black that sold the first slaves.
There were slaves in the north also.
There were even a few wealthy blacks that owned slaves and yes, they were in the north, so it's not all one sided as many would lead you to believe.
 
 
LONGTOM

I think its wonderful your proud of your southern Heritage. Their is much to be proud of.

However , and this is not a response to your comment but just a comment in general about the thread topic.
When I lived in Atlanta area comment were also stated , why should we pay any compensation for slavery , nobody is even still alive that were slaves.

Well , why should folks (topic of this thread ) continue to perpetuate this perceived grudge. Same could be said in regards ....no one is even alive anymore that participated.

I also agree it's not all one sided as many would lead all to believe.(mostly those pushing hidden agendas ).

I visited Andersonville , (and the same could be said for any number of prisons north or south) very solemn very sad , lots of soldiers , brothers and sisters fathers and mothers cousins on both north and south gave the ultimate sacrifice in that awful war.

Why  people chose to revisit perpetuate this grudge and just stir pots and open old wounds by saying our country should should go through it again is beyond me.

Semper Fi.

God watch over them all ,  North and south.




War is neither glamorous nor romantic. People need to let it lay. 

Civil war prisoner of war survivor. (courtesy of library of congress)



Semper Fi

[mannyrock]

Hey Scootered,


   Thanks for the additional information on the statistic about percentage of dollar received back in each state in aid from the feds.   It does bear out what you said, kinda.  But, the statistic is on a per dollar basis.   It is not expressed in gross dollars.    In gross dollars, the Northern states receive more federal aid than the Southern states, for the plain reason that they pay more in federal tax dollars due to their higher populations.  So, it is not accurate to say that the Southern States receive more federal aid that the Northern states.  They receive back a higher percentage of each dollar they pay in federal taxes, but the Northern states received far more total aid.


  Chung, what?  We are suppose to respect those who were enslaved?  No black person living in America today, or his father or grandfather has ever been enslaved. And by the way, there were tens of thousands of black freemen living in the South before the war, many of whom were highly skilled craftsmen and artsans, Virginia having the largest number.
But if you feel so bad about it, by all means please feel free to take YOUR money and give it to some of these folks, particularly the Hip Hop crowd in the northern cities.  Or, are you just telling other folks what should be done with their money?


 Manny

[ChungDoQuan]

Then, why am I supposed to respect anyone who carries the south's banner? No one is alive that was in the Civil War, either. You keep trying to relate this to a modern political problem. It is not. Wrong board!

[mannyrock]

Chung,


   I don't recall me asking you to respect anything about the South or the Civil War.  Wouldn't care if you did or didn't.


   The original post asked, why do folks in the South still hold a grudge 150 years later.  People gave you their honest answers.   I don't think they particularly care whether you like their answers or not.




   And P.S.-   Maybe you can explain this one to me;   


   Why do the people of China still  hold a grudge against Japan?  I mean, really, that "Rape of Nanking" thing was almost EIGHTY years ago.  They need to just move on, don't you think?    (I guess that in 20 years or so, when every person in China who was alive during that travesty has died, that the rest of China will suddenly just get over it.)


Manny

[ChungDoQuan]

Then you should "respect" the long held grudges of others.

[scootrd]

Hey Scootered,


   Thanks for the additional information on the statistic about percentage of dollar received back in each state in aid from the feds.   It does bear out what you said, kinda.  But, the statistic is on a per dollar basis.   It is not expressed in gross dollars.    In gross dollars, the Northern states receive more federal aid than the Southern states, for the plain reason that they pay more in federal tax dollars due to their higher populations.  So, it is not accurate to say that the Southern States receive more federal aid that the Northern states.  They receive back a higher percentage of each dollar they pay in federal taxes, but the Northern states received far more total aid.

Manny If I was not entirely accurate I stand corrected . However I was just trying to make an over arching point  I hope was not missed....  Were all in this boat together. Playing politics when Americans are in needs is just plain old fashioned stupid.  Bringing up this north south grudge crap in 2013 is just stupid and plays on sterotypes and creates divisions where there should be none. If you have a little more you can spare , you give a little more , irregardless of red state, blue state, north or south.  We are the "UNITED STATES".  This whole north and south crap in 2013 , is just that...... Crap.

Be proud of your heritage wherever you hail from , but this civil war demagoguery really needs a rest.

Anyway Just my two cents.

Probably wont need comment anymore , but will continue to read contributions to this thread.

Peace,

Semper Fi

[Mike in Virginia]

Slavery and racism are two distinct issues.  No black person alive today really believes he is entitled to anything because of the way his ancestors were treated.  If he says that, he just wants something for free. 
 
Much more prevalent than the slavery issue today, is the racism issue.  It's here and it's not going away and it's got nothing to do with the civil war. 
 
It's ridiculous to think that any person in the south holds a grudge against those in the north because of the outcome of the war.  Really silly and stupid, and it only comes up by Yankees who want southerners to hold a grudge.  It's the northerners who can't let it go.  It's the northerners who like to say they won, when the truth is, the stupidity of such a stance speaks aloud of ignorance and hate on their part. 
 
I freely admit I despise Yankees.  I don't want to see them, I don't want to know them, I don't want to speak with them, but I don't hate them.  I don't hate anyone.  It's insane to say you hate an entire group.  We hate individually.  But an individual from New England, no matter where he migrates, is a Yankee and possesses Yankee characteristics which are sickening to me.  Those who say they travel and have met New Englanders and they can't see a difference in their attitudes and actions, are liars, or else they are Yankees themselves. 
 
I'm 65.  I've never met a person from an northeastern state that didn't personify what I've said.  Always, even their most meaningless remarks are spoken to place them above others.  They don't even know it, to some extent.  It's such an ingrained way of life to put down others or to show themselves superior, they can't help it.  To see a northerner go out of his way to be polite is a fantasy.  The reverse is true.  They can't shut up when an opportunity arises for them to glorify themselves.  It's subtle in most situations, but it's always there. 
 
Again I say, I don't think they can help it.  They were raised in environs that demanded rudeness.  Be rude or be less than whomever it is you are in contact with.  Despicable.  I avoid them if possible. 
 
An actual Yankee can't see it.  He gets on the phone with a retail rep to place an order.  The rep is a northerner, short and smart mouthed and condescending.  The Yankee caller can't even recognize that, because he's that way himself. 
 
As Mr. Gump said, that's all I got to say about that.   
 

[scootrd]

Again I say, I don't think they can help it.  They were raised in environs that demanded rudeness.  Be rude or be less than whomever it is you are in contact with.  Despicable.  I avoid them if possible. 
 
An actual Yankee can't see it.  He gets on the phone with a retail rep to place an order.  The rep is a northerner, short and smart mouthed and condescending.  The Yankee caller can't even recognize that, because he's that way himself. 
 
As Mr. Gump said, that's all I got to say about that.   
 

 

An Mike I can honestly say I have been screwed more times over by them "good ole boy" contractors , who shake your hand , Smile , and play that friendly southern drawl to a tee, then take your money,  and don't deliver on the handshake.

My only point is .... Roads run both ways. There are rude , and dishonest folks,  in all walks of life, above and below the Mason Dixon line. Rude and dishonest isn't geography centric.

Ok now I'm done

Semper Fi

[ChungDoQuan]

And none of you southern pride folks have ever seen a bunch of old guys playin' "dumb hillbilly" when lost tourists stop to ask directions? You've never seen anyone from the south ham it up with the accent and local colloquialisms when talking to northerners to the point that they could not be understood? Especially if the northerners are black? I grew up in the south--- that stuff happens all the time. THAT'S exactly how y'all get labeled racist and stupid--- y'all tend to play the part.

[Oldshooter]

Why We Fought the "Civil War"
* * * * * * * * * * *
"Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."
--- The Declaration of Independence

[ChungDoQuan]

And you LOST. Move on.

[Oldshooter]

And you LOST. Move on.

Good Idea We have, you can't seem to. like maybe to Venezuela or sumpn!

[ChungDoQuan]

I live HERE. I live NOW. Not 150 years ago.  I grew up in the south, too.

[Oldshooter]

Then whistle dixie!

[LONGTOM]

Let me tell you a little story.
 
When I was about 9 or 10 years old in grade school a bully type senior varsity football player who had been left back a year (so he was 18 or 19 at the time) beat the crap out of me on the bus because I wouldn't give up my seat to him.
I fought back as best I could and got in some good licks but he was just to big.
He told m e as he was pounding on me that all I had to do was cry for his friends and he would quit hitting me.
Each time he hit me I would laugh and he would land another one.
It lasted about 10 or 12 minutes.
I guess he got tired.
Anyway, two days latter I started passing blood and was so swelled up in my stomach and privates that I could barely walk.
No, I hadn't reported it.
This was back in the mid 60s and unlike now, you fought your own battles and lived with the out come.
It was so bad that I had to tell what happened.
Sure, he got kicked off the bus for a few weeks but he was the star man on the football team so nothing else became of it except that I spent the next 2 weeks in the hospital wit internal injuries.
And that was the end of it, or was it?
I guess I could have got over it and moved on but it was in the back of my mind all the time.
It took me 9 years but in my mind I got my revenge.
Late one night I was coming home from a meeting out of town in a used truck I had just bought.
A brand of which I don't normally own or drive and I recognised his prised 71 F 100 coming towards me.
It was late and no one else was on this lonely back wood stretch of narrow 2 lane road with heave woods and fences on both sides.
At the last possible moment I played the game of chicken and swung over in his lane with my lights on bright and held it there.
The last I saw was in my mirror was his truck going through the fence and head on into a tree.
I never even slowed down, with a big smile on my face I drove on home knowing that I had gotten him back in my own way.
A few days latter I drove by his house and what was left of his once prised ride was something to be proud of, (scrap metal only)!!!
I later heard that he had a broken arm and a few cuts and bruises.
No matter, it cost him and the best part is to this day, (unless he is a member of GBO reading this and I don't know it) is he never knew who it was or that I gave him his payback!!!.
 
What this story tells you is that if you are a true Southerner at heart you may move on but you never forget when you or your family have been wronged.
Our family had nothing in that war until Sheridan burned the Shenandoah Valley and stole everything we owned except our land.
In our eyes we were wronged and we did something about it, we joined the fight.
Like many from the south, we have moved on with our lives and are very prosperous now, but we never forgot from what we had to overcome and to that extent I will fight for what I deem as mine!!!
 
 
LONGTOM
 
 
 

[BBF]

Bells of Hades !!
Why didn't you just torch his place??

[hunt-m-up]

Bells of Hades !!
Why didn't you just torch his place??

That was Plan B, the gas can was in the truck...

[BBF]

Bells of Hades !!
Why didn't you just torch his place??

That was Plan B, the gas can was in the truck...

Now that is a plan.   A little bit of arson feels good.

[scootrd]

Seems cowardice to me. Not something to be proud of in my eyes.

If your were still carrying that grudge after all those years , you should have confronted him directly.