"Marlin Jam" Vrs. Win '94

[flmason]

Ok, folks tipped me off to the "Marlin Jam"... apparently when the cam on the lever wears into the carrier enough... it throws the timing off and feeding problems follow.

Sound like the solution is to hard face the parts in one form or another and keep going?

Does the Win '94 have any equivalent design trait?

(Have to admit, just purchased an M77, but still have a "jones" going for something that's "faster". Yes, admittedly I'm thinking things like SHTF here. "Firepower" in a word. Guess I should just "bite the bullet" and buy an M1A, or such. But the price... and the fact that I'd have to buy the "Ca. Legal" version (whatever that is) keeps me away. And lessor priced guns of this types seem to be really hard to find locally. I think I've seen one bubba'ed SKS since I started looking. Mini-30, SKS, AK and AR variant here in the "People Republic of Kalifornia" seem to be snapped up as soon as they are off the truck. I Imagine it's going to get worse, heard of another shooting on the radio today.   

Side discussion, why are so many people popping off and shooting people? As if it fixes anything, duh!)

[SHOOTALL]

never had a problem with a Winchester . And one is from 1953 .
 As to your concern in a SHTF and weapon. A rifle is a battle tool and in a crisis may be a good tool with out doubt. But  unless you are firing at attackers at distance longer than normal self defense distances a shotgun may be better for many. No civilian rifle sends more projectiles down range at a time with one pull of the trigger . A scoped hunting rifle is good for distant targets as snipers seem to do fine with a bolt gun. Your idea about the lever gun makes as much sense today as it did when the lever gun hit the market. They were the assault weapon of their time    and still a good choice. And you could have several for the cost of a M1-A .

[mannyrock]

   Yes, a design factor in the Marlin lever is that after firing a huge number of rounds (more than you will probably ever fire in your entire life), the parts can wear from camming and create a jam.


   I had one for 30 years, and used it alot.  Never had a single jam.




   Although the factor exists, it is obviously a non-problem in any practical sense, since the Marlin 336 has been continuously made for more than 60 years and its sales are in the millions.


   
   The one time I saw a rifle with this jam, the owner ordered a replacement lifter from Brownells, installed it in about 10 minutes, and fully resolved the problem.




  If a shtf situation ever arises, you will have a thousand more pressing things to worry about than the question of whether your Marlin will develop this jam, such as food, water, medicine, shelter, disease, and safety.   


   
   The only other time I've heard first hand about this jam, was a friend who had an Marlin 1894, and used it every week in Cowboy shoots or practice for Cowboy shoots.  He fired about 2,000 rounds a year, and after 3 years he wore his rifle out.




  The Winchester 94 can be a fine rifle, if you don't get a cheap clunker made between about 1964 and 1974.  Many people prefer its looks and handling.  But, I wouldn't ever let the potential of  a "Marlin jam" be a factor that would influence my decision.   The Winchesters can wear out too.




  Hope this helps.




Mannyrock

[SHOOTALL]

I also had Marlins but for a short time each. Yea I like 94's . Back to the Marlin , could it be a few bad heat treated parts from time to time not a flaw ?
Kind of amusing , Guy buys a truck for thousands and expects to wear out sometime buys a gun for several hundred and expects it to last for ever . The both are internal combustion engines in their simplest form. One lacks a connecting rod 

[flmason]

I also had Marlins but for a short time each. Yea I like 94's . Back to the Marlin , could it be a few bad heat treated parts from time to time not a flaw ?
Kind of amusing , Guy buys a truck for thousands and expects to wear out sometime buys a gun for several hundred and expects it to last for ever . The both are internal combustion engines in their simplest form. One lacks a connecting rod 

Yes, I hear that.

I don't expect it to last forever. Clearly it wears, and like a revolver, it is a somewhat "timed" device.

Slightly different action... had Rossi .22 pump as a kid that ran flawlessly, family had a 760 Remington in '06. Still can't figure why pump guns aren't even more popular. Only manual repeater I ever did see wear appreciably was an 1890-something pump shotgun that had gone through 3 generations of family... So, just seems the standard used to be "quality that lasts".

So really, just trying to find out how much is "internet legend" and what is reality.

Since I've heard little of guns wearing in such a way that leads to jams, thought I'd ask around.

Have a "jones" going for a lever gun, but no real experience with them. Trying to figure out which one, and whether to wait for exactly the "right thing", or just go ahead and order a Marlin 335 and be done with it,  LOL!

Much as I'd like a stainless 45-70 STP model, those were short run.... OTOH a 336 in blue or even the 336w in matt finish is a fairly low cost rifle.  Hardly more than a few pair of more expensive men's shoes. But still a gun, so you want it to be reliable.

[flmason]

   Yes, a design factor in the Marlin lever is that after firing a huge number of rounds (more than you will probably ever fire in your entire life), the parts can wear from camming and create a jam.

   I had one for 30 years, and used it alot.  Never had a single jam.

   Although the factor exists, it is obviously a non-problem in any practical sense, since the Marlin 336 has been continuously made for more than 60 years and its sales are in the millions.
   
   The one time I saw a rifle with this jam, the owner ordered a replacement lifter from Brownells, installed it in about 10 minutes, and fully resolved the problem.

  If a shtf situation ever arises, you will have a thousand more pressing things to worry about than the question of whether your Marlin will develop this jam, such as food, water, medicine, shelter, disease, and safety.   
   
   The only other time I've heard first hand about this jam, was a friend who had an Marlin 1894, and used it every week in Cowboy shoots or practice for Cowboy shoots.  He fired about 2,000 rounds a year, and after 3 years he wore his rifle out.

  The Winchester 94 can be a fine rifle, if you don't get a cheap clunker made between about 1964 and 1974.  Many people prefer its looks and handling.  But, I wouldn't ever let the potential of  a "Marlin jam" be a factor that would influence my decision.   The Winchesters can wear out too.

  Hope this helps.

Mannyrock

Good points. I have feeling, someday, when this whole frenzy thing is over, I'll probably try both.

Seems to very much be the classic "Ginger or Maryanne" question, LOL!

[SHOOTALL]

I would add it is easier to clear a jam in a Winchester mostly because there is more open room to work.

[spruce]

Mannyrock correctly put the "Marlin jam" in perspective - it does happen when the parts get worn, but it takes a LOT of use before they wear to that point.  Even if it does occur it's easily and cheaply fixed.
 
There are no perfect gun designs.  Some designs are better than others, but with enough use (and/or abuse) they ALL will eventually fail in some way.
 
"Letting in two" is certainly not confined to Marlins.  It happens in a lot of tubular magazine designs when the parts become worn.  Remington actually redesigned the shell lifter on the 870 to make it easier to clear this kind of jam in an emergency.  But, I've owned a few 870's over the years and none of them ever had this jam, even though a couple of them were well worn examples when I go them.
 
Bottom line is, if I were considering buying a Marlin I wouldn't even think about the possibility of a "marlin jamb" - I'd just buy with confidence, it's a great design (as is the Winchester)!

[SHOOTALL]

how is the flex tap lifter on an 870 like a worn part on a Marlin ? The flex tab allows room for the rim to not bind on 12 ga. guns only.

[spruce]

The flex tab lifter's purpose is to allow the operator to clear the gun by just racking the slide firmly - it flexes enough to give some clearance.  Before the flex tab came along it was still possible to clear the jamb, but it required much more force - training was to slam the butt on the ground while forcefully retracting the slide.  This is the jam where there is a shell on top of the lifter, under a closed bolt.
 
I just used that example to illustrate that ending up with too many shells in the receiver area is not limited to Marlin levers, but can happen with any tube fed  design!

[SHOOTALL]

  or use a knife to slide the round back into the magazine . I would like yours better in a fight.