what handgun calibers benefit from being in rifle length barrel?

[hansg/Ups]

What handgun calibers benefit from being in a rifle length[>=18"] barrel? I'm referring to significantly flatter trajectory/velocity.
Would any of the following-actually- be flatter shooting,more retained energy:45Colt,45ACP,10mm,9mmx19[luger] ?
Am debating about lever actions or Contender rifle barrels in those,
Thanks.

[kynardsj]

JMHO, 357 Mag, 44 Mag and 45 LC loaded to Ruger/TC levels. A good magnum powder will give you an approximate 300 FPS increase over the same round in a handgun. I shoot 45 LC in a 20 inch Encore. 240 gr Hornady XTP mag over a good dose of Lilgun has got me in the 1700 fps range. I started out shooting the 250 gr XTP's in it but they would come apart on deer. These are the only two I've recovered over the years. 240 gr on the left is a perfect mushroom, on the right is just the jacket of the 250 gr. Pardon the blurry pic. To me it's just a cool factor to have a handgun and rifle chambered for the same round.

[YRUpunting?]

357 Maximum.

Update:

Forgot to add the Handi Rifle section has many members shooting the 357 Maxi and there is a lot of info (FAQ).

The definitive site is below.  He's a member here as well.

http://357maximum.com/

[45-70.gov]

38  spl.......makes them real quiet


the more powerful the more they benefit


i have head a 45 acp  will  loose power with lomg barrels


once they  ''coast '' they slow down


prior to that they accelerate

[Ranger99]

both the 357 and 44 mags get
hot rodded from the extra barrel inches
the 357 imo is a totally different animal
out of a rifle barrel. i've taken animals
with 357 mag rifles that were rendered
as quickly as some regular rifle calibers
i've shot with amazing internal damage.
of course, i've been told by a few that it's
totally unsuitable for hunting, handgun or
rifle , i guess based on their handgun experience,
or from reading it somewhere. when i ask,
most will admit they've never tried to hunt
with a 357 rifle and suitable load.
those two are the only ones i've used.
good luck

[Oldshooter]

I have this Idea that 10 mm will benefit, even if you have to use a slower powder. I am contemplating a mek tek upper and my 10 mm lower to make a "pig gun" that will hold 15 shots and a 16 inch barrel.

[ironglow]

.357 Mag and .44 mag come to mind first..  I have experience with the .44 mag only, but in hilly, eastern woodlands the .44 mag has got to be one of the very best deer/black bear rifles going (IMO).  I have tagged several with a .44 mag rifle, and it really hammers them.

[mcwoodduck]

357, 41, and 44 mag all come to mind.
I think the auto pistol rounds benefit from a longer barrel but not legal rifle length.
Look at the Military Sub guns.  The M3 grease gun, the Thompson both use 10 to 12 inch barrel.
The 9mm subguns are all in the same class. 
The Military does not care about the cool factor.  If the subguns benefited from a 16 or 18" barrel they would have made them that long to maximize the velocity. 
I think the 10mm max out at about 14" anything more becomes drag as all of the powder has expanded. 

[FPH]

I would follow Marlin's lead.

[Oldshooter]

do you think a slower burning powder would help?

[mcwoodduck]

do you think a slower burning powder would help?

No I think it is a Volume thing.  Even if you pack a 45 ACP case and +P a load.  I think the gas generated by that powder will be contained in less than a 16" barrel.  With a 45 ACP case being less than in Inch of space for powder, if that powder exapnds 10X  with the primer all of the volume is going to be contained in 10 inches or less and at that point any barrel length longer than the max space that the gas of the burned powder will fill will act as drag no matter how slowly that powder burns.
I was told maximum speed of a standard velocity 22 is out of a 14.25" barrel.  Anything less and anything more and the bullet is slower.  Less and it does not maximize volume control and more the rifleing acts as drag. 

[YRUpunting?]

This may help.

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/index.html

[Oldshooter]

This may help.

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/index.html

I love to learn! Thanks

[mcwoodduck]

OK I am wrong. 

[Oldshooter]

Other resources
Acknowledgements
Disclaimer
 
 
Well that didn't work, kinda depends on the bullet weight Duck you aint all wrong

[Flynmoose]

I have a 16 1/2" T/C Encore barrel. I ring the gong with boring regularity at 100 yards. I don't know or care how fast it is, just how accurate. It is a hoot to shoot! OOPS! Should have mentioned that the barrel is chambered in 45ACP.
FM

[mcwoodduck]

I have a 16 1/2" T/C Encore barrel. I ring the gong with boring regularity at 100 yards. I don't know or care how fast it is, just how accurate. It is a hoot to shoot!
FM

Townsend Wheeland may have said that only accurate rifles are interesting, but they sure are boring on the range. 
Bang, clang, bang clang  or for the slower bullets  Bang      Clang     Even shooting clays gets old as you trun clays into chips and then chips into dust you can almost run a marathon changing targets. 
Gets kind of old even from trying every position you can think you are going to see in the field. 

[SHOOTALL]

I would think any handgun round would benefit. Look at some of the Sub machine guns that shot 9mm , 40 and 45 . Often sold to the public in legal semi 16 inch barrel models that greatly improved velocity. Them Camp 9 and Camp 45 come to mind as does the Storm in 9mm and 40 cal. There are many others produced from the ground up.
 The 30 carbine is really a pistol cal. that started out with a 18 inch bbl.
 Of course all the others mentioned from 32 to 45 . The 454 is a real good round in a rifle as is the 500 S&W. The list goes on. The Germans added barrel length to the Luger and a stock. 
 
 The 44-40 and 38-40 may have been the best examples though .

[mcwoodduck]

After looking at some of the data the bullets speed up then slow down and then speed up again.  Like in the 115 grain 9mm  at 14", 15" , 16" and then speeds up again at 17" 
How does that happen? 

[darkgael]

The 30 carbine is really a pistol cal. that started out with a 18 inch bbl.

Hmmm.
Why do you say that?
The 30 carbine cartridge was designed from the get go for the Carbine of the same name. Both were designed by  Winchester. The .30 Carbine cartridge owes a debt to an older Winchester cartridge, the .32 Win. SL which itself was designed for a rifle.
So....it is more a rifle cartridge that can be, with difficulty, adapted to a pistol.
Pete

[SHOOTALL]

The 30 carbine is really a pistol cal. that started out with a 18 inch bbl.

Hmmm.
Why do you say that?
The 30 carbine cartridge was designed from the get go for the Carbine of the same name. Both were designed by  Winchester. The .30 Carbine cartridge owes a debt to an older Winchester cartridge, the .32 Win. SL which itself was designed for a rifle.
So....it is more a rifle cartridge that can be, with difficulty, adapted to a pistol.
Pete

because its case is  about the same size as many handgun cases , it was to replace a handgun and its performance is more in line with a handgun. In a Ruger BlackHawk it is quite a performer but loud. I would add it is most always compared to a 4 inch barrel 357 mag. in power.
 
 Of course that is My opinion and one others have stated over the years. And your post is correct also.

[mcwoodduck]

Oh and the 38-40 and the 44-40 you mentioned earlier were designed as rifle Ctgs in the Win 1873 Later adopted for the Colt an Remington handguns. 
Even though the Colt 45 was a 250 frain bullet with 40 grains of black powder and the 44 -40 had the same 40 grain charge with a 200+ grain bullet. 
We used to argue as a joke about it at the club.  And the 30 carbine not being allowed to be shot on the range but a Tokarov 7.62X25 out of a carbine or a 7.63Mauser out of a carbine generate the same speed for similar sized bullets and one is a pistol and one is a rifle.
We had a couple members at the time that had a Mauser Broom handle carbine and a semi auto  russian PPS-41 copy he made in his shop. 
On the same note I am not allowed ot shoot the M1 carbine but my Ruger deerfield that generates more energy is allowed as the 44 mag is a pistol ctg.  As Safety officer of the club I had to argue one way or the other and the line had to be drawn somewhere even though mathmatically it makes no sense.  But then we would have guys on the pistol range shooting 450 Marlin or 45-70 out of their BFR and folding the steel gongs in half on the pistol range or shooting 223 out of a contender and drilling neat 22 holes in the plate rack. 

[jlwilliams]

  Short answer is they all gain from the added barrel length, and they all gain a similar proportional amount.  That proportion being the kicker.  That's why the magnum rounds are your best bet for a carbine length barrel.  They start out with more pepper than the standard round so they and up with more too.  A 9mm out of a 16" barrel is much more effective than it is from a 5" barrel, but it's still got less case capacity than the 357 magnum (just as an example).
 
  The other consideration being what sort of gun you want.  If you go with 9mm or 45acp, you pretty much only have semi autos.  On the other hand, the vast majority of the rimmed cartridge long guns are lever actions.  You can find a few pumps and I think Ruger offers a bolt action in 357 and 44, but the vast majority will be cowboy guns.  So if you want an Uzi, 44 Magnum just isn't an option and if you want a '92, well then 9mm isn't happening.   Of course if you are getting Contender barrels, you can have anything your heart desires.  Case in point, I have a 16 1/2" Contender barrel in 7.62x25 and it's just a ton of fun.  That's a hot little pistol round that makes good use of the extra barrel length.

[GH1]

 I have a .357 lever and a 4" revolver that I was fortunate enough to be able to run across a chrony. The identical loads produced approximately 1250 FPS out of the revolver and 1775 FPS out of the lever.  The loads were 158 gr cast on top of 13.5 gr AA #9, which a relatively slow powder.  A faster burning powder along the lines of Bullseye probably wouldn't see as much of an increase.
 GH1

[LaOtto222]

I realize you are talking about traditional handgun rounds, mostly what has been mentioned already. I have 44 Mag and 357 Maximum with 22" barrels and they both benefit from the longer barrel. I get 1800 fps with 240 grain JSP Winchester White box 44 Magnum ammo and 2200 fps with 180 grain hand loads in the 357 max. However, the 221 Fireball is a pistol cartridge (designed for a 10" barrel) and it benefits greatly from a longer barrel. I can get around 3000 fps with a 50 grain bullet in a rifle length barrel. Some where around 3400 - 3500 fps with a 36 grain bullet.

Good Luck and Good Shooting 

[ironglow]

JMHO, 357 Mag, 44 Mag and 45 LC loaded to Ruger/TC levels. A good magnum powder will give you an approximate 300 FPS increase over the same round in a handgun. I shoot 45 LC in a 20 inch Encore. 240 gr Hornady XTP mag over a good dose of Lilgun has got me in the 1700 fps range. I started out shooting the 250 gr XTP's in it but they would come apart on deer. These are the only two I've recovered over the years. 240 gr on the left is a perfect mushroom, on the right is just the jacket of the 250 gr. Pardon the blurry pic. To me it's just a cool factor to have a handgun and rifle chambered for the same round.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
  I have acquired a CVA Scout in .44 mag, which will share my deer hunting with my Ruger American .308..  You say the 250 gr XTP doesn't hold up as well as the 240 XTP..and the photo backs it up. 
  Do you have any idea why this is so?  I have loaded 240 gr XTPs to about 1660 fps (with 4227), what bullet and speed do you use in your .44 mag for deer..and bear, if you have them ?
 
  I haven't looked at the FTX bullets, they seem to be too fragile to me.

[bilmac]

I would think that with bullets with as poor of ballistic coeficients as we are discussing here, range would be a major factor in their performance. If both the bullets connected at 25 yds. then maybe both would have come apart, and if both had been fired at 150 yds then maybe they would have been perfect mushrooms.

[kmittleman]

I think they all will improve velocity wise, but the magnums seem to get the biggest boost. I've done some testing of my Ruger BH in .357 mag and H&R Trapper in .357 using the same loads. Over a chrony, here were my results using a Beartooth 185 gr WFNGC.

• Ruger Blackhawk .357 4 5/8" Barrel: 1280 fps
• H&R Trapper .357 18 1/2" Barrel: 1715 fps.

Hope that helps.


-Kevin

[petemi]

The big advantage in the single shot pistols and rifles is that you can shoot pointed bullets with a better BC.  For example, I shoot the Hornady 180 gr. SSP in my Handi .357 Maximum and the 123 gr. Speer 7.62x39 in my Handi .32-20 which was built using a .303 Brit barrel.  A friend may be able to make a jacketed pointed 240 gr. bullet for my .445 Super Magnum Handi.  I should know today if he can do it.

Pete