Author Topic: Feds want tolower alcohol limits for drivers, from .08, to .05.  (Read 1706 times)

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Offline powderman

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http://abcnews.go.com/US/ntsb-toughen-alcohol-limits-drivers/story?id=19174487
 
NTSB Wants to Toughen Alcohol Limits for Drivers   PHOTO: The staff of the National Transportation Safety Board recommended that the BAC (blood alcohol content) change from .08% down to .05%, May 14, 2013.  Feds Look to Toughen Alcohol Limits for Drivers Auto Start: On | Off             By DAVID KERLEY (@David_Kerley) and MATT HOSFORD (@ABCaviation)  May 14, 2013 
  A leading government safety entity is calling on the U.S. to lower the allowable blood alcohol level for drivers by 35 percent.
 
The board of the National Transportation Safety Board this morning recommended that the blood alcohol content, or BAC, from .08 percent down to .05 percent. The aim is to cut the nearly 10,000 deaths every year related to alcohol impaired driving.
Most of the industrialized world already has the lower standard. "It will happen," says Robert Molloy of the NTSB. "We are behind the world."
 
In addition to lowering the standard, the NTSB staff asked that penalties for first and repeat offenders be increased. NTSB recommended more technology including a "sniffing flashlight" used by police officers which can detect alcohol odors. There is also a call to accelerate research into cars which can detect if the driver has been drinking and not allow the car to be started.
      Getty Images The staff of the National Transportation... View Full Size    Getty Images The staff of the National Transportation Safety Board recommended that the BAC (blood alcohol content) change from .08% down to .05%, May 14, 2013.       Testing Your Own Blood-Alcohol Level Watch Video        'Super Drunk' Charges for Grade School Principal Watch Video        Confessions of a Doctor Watch Video    The staff report suggests that if the BAC standard is lowered, between 500 and 800 lives could be saved every year. Driving under the influence is responsible for nearly a third of all crash fatalities in the U.S. The NTSB suggests those deaths and the 170,000 yearly injuries add up to a cost of $66 billion every year.
 
The American Beverage Institute called the NTSB's recommendation "ludicrous" and the "latest attempt by traffic safety activist groups to expand the definition of 'drunk.'"
"Moving from .08 to .05 would criminalize perfectly responsible behavior," said Sarah Longwell, managing director of ABI. The institute estimated that the average woman would reach the .05 level after just one drink.
 
The group also disputed NTSB's claim that lowering the BAC threshold would save lives.
"Out of the over 32,000 U.S. traffic fatalities in 2011, less than 1 percent were caused by drivers between .05 and .08 percent BAC," Longwell said.
"Further restricting the moderate consumption of alcohol by responsible adults prior to driving does nothing to stop hardcore drunk drivers from getting behind the wheel," she said.
The NTSB has no authority to change the standard. It can only recommend that each state make the change. Currently every state is at the .08 percent standard. It took more than two decades for states to lower from .1 percent to .08 percent.
        More From ABC News
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Feds want tolower alcohol limits for drivers, from .08, to .05.
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2013, 05:06:19 PM »
very, very bad idea.
nanny staters will love it

Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline Ranger99

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Re: Feds want tolower alcohol limits for drivers, from .08, to .05.
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2013, 05:09:18 PM »
suits me.
nobody should ever drink and drive,
not even one teeny drink.
it's not as if it's unknown that being
impaired and driving is dangerous, much
like everyone knows that cigarettes aren't
good for you. however, i don't think anyone
should be allowed to file suit against a
bar or anywhere for "overserving". the
problem is "overordering".
it's too easy to stay home and be safe
and not endanger yourself or some innocent
person. i like the no-refusal policy we have
here at times. it'd be nice to extend that
to the pot-smokers too.

18 MINUTES.  . . . . . .

Offline Doublebass73

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Re: Feds want tolower alcohol limits for drivers, from .08, to .05.
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2013, 05:39:19 PM »
I agree that this is a bad idea, the feds don't have the Constitutional authority to do something like this. This is a state issue. I'm all in favor of stricter punishments at the state level but I'm not willing to violate the 10th Amendment in exchange for safety.
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."

---- William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783

Offline nw_hunter

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Re: Feds want tolower alcohol limits for drivers, from .08, to .05.
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2013, 09:34:13 PM »
I wonder if one dose of cough syrup will prevent someone from driving? ;)
Why don't we just save time and give the Federal government the full power to determine if it's subjects need to be allowed to do anything they don't approve of. or to live for that matter. That's where all this is leading anyway!We see on the news that drivers have been charged with DUI even if they pass the Breathalyzer test but fail the field sobriety test.I know I would have a hard time passing one at my age on a given day.
I know people who drive and are more dangerous to others than most drunk drivers, and like me don't drink at all.You could lower it down to sniffing the cork, and it wouldn't make bit of difference.A Careless and reckless driving law that covers it all makes more sense. And why should our beloved Federal government make such laws? That should be left up to the states.

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Offline Anna

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Re: Feds want tolower alcohol limits for drivers, from .08, to .05.
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2013, 03:01:57 AM »
It should be left up to the state. Something like this could be too easily abused.
What's the first thing most officers ask you when your stopped besides wanting to see your license,
registration, and insurance? " Have you been drinking and is there anything in the car that I need to
be aware of ?"

No I haven't been drinking and there is nothing in the car that's any of your business unless you
have a warrent. That's not being mean its the way your rights are spelled out.
Even if your so drunk your flowing out of the car make them prove it. Do not ever give them the ok
to search your car,  every lawyer I've ever discussed this with says the same thing.

If they demand you take a breath test or go through the sobriety test then fine but keep your mouth
shut and do as they say. But never surrender your rights drunk or not or your rights about search
and seizure. They may have or use probable cause but that's fine let them do it do not give them
a helping hand. A favorite I've seen them use for stopping people is your license plate light is out.
Even if it isn't they will tap on it saying well it was out, can we search the car?

Say NO, they can get a warrent if you say yes thinking I've got nothing to hide you have still surrendered your rights. That little dance and finger thing along with the counting backwards from
100 in a short time frame is rediculous tell them you want a breath test. Some of you guys are getting up in years and it is difficult for you to stand on one leg while standing in the gravel on the shoulder
of the road. Or they face you into the cold wind and tell you to follow an ink pen, of course your eyes
are going to water. Arthritis could prevent you from touching all your fingers back and fourth with
your thumb within 10 seconds.

But you can be arrested by failing these test even without a breath test. And they can hold you for
12 hours in a drunk tank for no other reason other than they suspected you.
Guys, they can drag you off your property and do this even if all they see is one beer can or say they
smelled it on your breath. They can detaine you without arrest for 12 hours for just about anything they want if they say they suspected you of being under the influence of something.
And you don't have to be driving they say its to protect you from yourself or your being a danger
to the public. If this is the case they do not even have to give you a breath test its on their word
alone.

I'm not making this up I've had to verify one if my patients was on medication that was prescribed
but for 12 hours it made no difference. He was taken from his home and was sober, no breath test,
no arrest, not driving, only because the deputy said he smelled beer on his breath.
Well after 12 hours the only smell on his breath was after the crappy food they had fed him.
The man doesn't drink he can't drink he is 66 years old with a medical condition drinking could kill
Him. No matter let him dry out and we will talk about it later.

While in the tank he was denied any vists by his doctors, they denied our request to see him, no
matter what was said to them. I gushed they figure 12 hours is a safe time to even keep a sick
person behind bars. Then they just threw him out on the streets telling him to walk home.
He stumbled to a tire store where they called an ambulance guys this guy was a dead man walking.
He later said that everytime he tried to tell the jailers he needed help they ignored him or laughed it
off. I guess if he had died they would say it was a suicide that is such an easy cop out for them
anymore.  >:(

Offline gypsyman

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Re: Feds want tolower alcohol limits for drivers, from .08, to .05.
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2013, 03:21:46 AM »
I was in the beer/wine carryout business with my parents untill '85. When they first really stated pushing on the dui laws, prompted by MADD. First intentions started out good, as most thing do. But, in the last 15 years or so, I believe it's morphed into a cash cow for law enforcement and insurance company's. We have billboards all around NW Ohio, with a guy blowing into a brealth alyzar, and big words, You just blew $10,000. Really?? I wonder who gets all those $10,000 fines? While I totally agree, drunk driving is stupid, make the fines the same as texting,hanging on to a cell phone, putting on make up,etc. Lot of accidents from them too. gypsyman
We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!!Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman

Offline guzzijohn

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Re: Feds want tolower alcohol limits for drivers, from .08, to .05.
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2013, 03:39:08 AM »
Quote from gypsyman:
"You just blew $10,000. Really??"


Fines
Alcohol monitoring device in car
alcohol education classes
evaluation fees
insurance rate increases
lawyer costs


Yep, just ask my step-daughter. Easily has cost her 10K counting everything.
GuzziJohn

Offline powderman

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Re: Feds want tolower alcohol limits for drivers, from .08, to .05.
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2013, 03:41:22 AM »
Quote
We see on the news that drivers have been charged with DUI even if they pass the Breathalyzer test but fail the field sobriety test.

 
WE see this locally all the time. DUI, not guilty, but still liable for court costs, etc, but guilty of other things of course.
 OTOH. This past week was the 20 something anniv of the worst drunk driving accident KY ever had. Larry mahoney hit a bus load of kids,  head on driving in the wrong lane, Church bus I believe. The bus exploded in fire, only 40 of the 67 kids aboard lived with many of them suffering burns. 27 dead kids. He spent 10 years in prison. The law then was .10 but that didn't stop him from driving drunk, and lowering the limit isn't going to stop others either. POWDERMAN.  :o :o
 
Heres a link to that trajedy. http://www.whas11.com/news/local/Remembering-the-Carroll-Co-bus-crash-25-years-later--207415641.html
 
Anotherpic of the burned bus.http://www.whas11.com/news/slideshows/A-look-back-at-the-Carrollton-bus-crash-of-1998-79573002.html
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Feds want tolower alcohol limits for drivers, from .08, to .05.
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2013, 03:53:36 AM »
I was in the beer/wine carryout business with my parents untill '85. When they first really stated pushing on the dui laws, prompted by MADD. First intentions started out good, as most thing do. But, in the last 15 years or so, I believe it's morphed into a cash cow for law enforcement and insurance company's.
the founder of MADD left in disgust, as it turned into a crusading organization.

Folks the dwi dui business is just that. The DUI numbers are lies, left and right. I'd like to see statistics on how many accidents are CAUSED by those who then blow between .05-.08 - but you'll not get those numbers, they will not provide them, they don't want you to have them, because they will UNDERMINE THE CASE FOR THE CHANGE THEY ARE WANTING TO FORCE UPON US.

this is about empowering the state, training the sheeple to kowtow, and payoff for ins industry and some 'prevention money' for LE gang. That's it.
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline thumper113

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Feds want tolower alcohol limits for drivers, from .08, to .05.
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2013, 04:25:26 AM »
Someone mark this on the calendar. 

I agree with Yellowtail on something!

This is a state not federal issue.  Around here we are getting more killed from texting and driving than drunk drivers.  The ones killed by drunk drivers are by drivers blowing two and three times the legal limit anyway.

I grew up being taught respect for law enforcement and the system.  In school I learned about due process and our right to a speedy trial by our peers.  As an adult I've seen what others have gone through and realize those days are gone.  I've personally known two people who plead guilty to things they didn't do because they couldn't afford the bail money and didn't want to sit in jail for a year while waiting.  Anna's post just goes to show how bad things have become.  It is so sad the dreams of our forefathers have died and we have slowly given up our rights.

This is just another notch on tightening the choke collar.
God Bless Our Troops!

Offline FPH

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Re: Feds want tolower alcohol limits for drivers, from .08, to .05.
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2013, 04:26:25 AM »
I don't drive with the smallest bit of alcohol in my system. However, I'm not for the Feds telling the States what to do.

Offline Oldshooter

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Re: Feds want tolower alcohol limits for drivers, from .08, to .05.
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2013, 05:03:12 AM »
It is more Nanny state BS.
 
 Drunk driving is a killer no doubt. But so is texting, I see it all the time, I wonder how many accidents are caused by that. Hard to prove but it is prevalent.
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Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Feds want tolower alcohol limits for drivers, from .08, to .05.
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2013, 05:14:40 AM »
It is more Nanny state BS.
 
 Drunk driving is a killer no doubt.
The question is... driving at .06, is that drunk driving?


I'd say, no. But it is a cash cow.
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Feds want tolower alcohol limits for drivers, from .08, to .05.
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2013, 05:18:44 AM »
I don't drink, but I also don't like the nanny state.  First off, 50% of all traffic fatalities are after 9pm on Friday and Saturday nights by people caused by kids under 21 drunk or not, some speeding, reckless driving, etc.  This seems to be a bigger problem.  Hmmm. 
 
The feds can't really pass a law nationwide to lower the limit.  However, they can cut off highway funds to states who don't lower the limit.  Back when Carter lowered the interstate highway speed limit to 55, a few western states like Wyoming said they weren't going to lower the limit.  Government cut their highway funds.  If Congress goes along and passes it, then states will follow to get their money.  Don't know if Obama can sign an executive order doing it, maybe on interstates and US highways. 
 
That is what lawsuits are for, if someone drives drunk and kills someone, he should be guilty of manslaughter and serve time, forced to go to AA etc.   

Offline FPH

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Re: Feds want tolower alcohol limits for drivers, from .08, to .05.
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2013, 05:31:11 AM »
It is more Nanny state BS.
 
 Drunk driving is a killer no doubt.
The question is... driving at .06, is that drunk driving?


I'd say, no. But it is a cash cow.

Apparently, most DUI traffic deaths start at .06.....so I guess it is drunk driving.....still should be up to the States. IMHO.

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Feds want tolower alcohol limits for drivers, from .08, to .05.
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2013, 05:43:03 AM »
Apparently, most DUI traffic deaths start at .06.....so I guess it is drunk driving.....still should be up to the States. IMHO.
Apparently... based on what?

Is that .06 an at-fault driver, or just incidental? You know... if I'm riding my bike at .06, and someone runs a light or fails to yeild right of way and hits me, that goes down in the stats as an alcohol-related accident, when in fact... alcohol had nothing to do with cause.


fine info here: http://www.getmadd.com/


here is who this proposed change will benefit - a POS lawyer & LE buddies, both of who lie shamelessly: [size=78%]http://www.edgarsnyder.com/drunk-driving/drunk-driving-statistics.html[/size]
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline Ranger99

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Re: Feds want tolower alcohol limits for drivers, from .08, to .05.
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2013, 08:10:55 AM »
if one drives impaired and kills a person,
it should be murder, not manslaughter.


everyone knows the result of driving impaired.
so a conscious choice was made to drive anyway,
and someone is killed. that's murder, not an accident.


it's not hard to act responsible and stay out of jail.
i've never been myself. never been in the back
of a patrol car. just stay home and drink or smoke or
whatever where you're least likely to hurt yourself
or an innocent person.
18 MINUTES.  . . . . . .

Offline DDZ

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Re: Feds want tolower alcohol limits for drivers, from .08, to .05.
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2013, 11:45:40 AM »
I'm in agreement with YT on the .06 as being intoxicated. I don't believe an .05 or .06 affects ones driving ability. Heck I'd be willing to bet I could drive better than anyone that is texting, putting make-up on, or even talking on a phone, after drinking a six pack. Not that I ever drive after having a few beers, but I've seen young people,
 and old people driving that probably have no business on a highway. 
As others have said, this whole business of lowering the level is nothing but a cash cow. They like to make people believe they are protecting us, but its all about extracting more money out of Americans pockets. Do any of you think they will stop at .05? If .05 is good than .02 is better. Yet 90 year old granny will be perfectly legal running people off the road.

Ever notice the ever increasing move by government to save us from ourselves, by making more and more draconian laws?     
Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.    Wm. Penn

Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: Feds want tolower alcohol limits for drivers, from .08, to .05.
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2013, 12:02:41 PM »
The government has become about control plain and simple.


Control your guns control your eating habits control your driving habits control the fuels you may purchase control your drinking habits, the list grows.


However anything to do with your sexual conduct, is beyond reproach, anything remotely regarded as odd is promoted, tolerated or defended.


The future lies now in perversion, plastics are so last century.
**Concealed Carry...Because when seconds count help is only minutes away**

Offline ironglow

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Re: Feds want tolower alcohol limits for drivers, from .08, to .05.
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2013, 12:11:08 PM »
 Although this rule would not affect me at all, I can understand the concern of most folks..since the cutoff point seems ridiculously low.
 Along with 3-4 of the local "good old boys", I have coffee most mornings with the commander of the nearby NY state Police baracks. Although he is not in favor of it, he says it is technically not that big a deal.  If they stop a person for weavingbover the white line or speeding..so long as they pass the field sobriety test, they likely won't go any further.
 
  Somehow, I think it is just another "revenue enhancer" for some of the many near-broke states.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline FPH

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Offline FPH

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Re: Feds want tolower alcohol limits for drivers, from .08, to .05.
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2013, 01:44:49 PM »
Texting, phone conversations and farding are separate issues.  We are talking about drinking.  I don't care how much you overestimate your capabilities.  Heck, when I was a kid it was .20 in TX.

Offline DDZ

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Re: Feds want tolower alcohol limits for drivers, from .08, to .05.
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2013, 02:02:48 PM »
Wonder what the percentages are of accidents committed by drivers with a BAC of .08 or lower, compared to completely sober people. Should we makes mountains out of mole hills, and punish everyone that has a fender bender, or runs off the road, or swerves a bit, or looks a bit sleepy? Should the punishment be equal to someone that has an .08 BAC? What level BAC is equal to a sleepy driver, A driver talking on a phone, or texting, or a 90 year old person that just isn't very sharp anymore? 
I'm not arguing this because I want to drive intoxicated. I never drive if I had more than two beers. As far as that goes I hardly ever have more that two beers at one time. Just saying we should be hesitant about applauding government for passing more laws to control how we live. You can bet that the law will not stop at .05   
Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.    Wm. Penn

Offline FPH

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Re: Feds want tolower alcohol limits for drivers, from .08, to .05.
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2013, 02:07:19 PM »
     Just saying we should be hesitant about applauding government for passing more laws to control how we live. You can bet that the law will not stop at .05

On that we agree.  States rights all the way.

Offline ironglow

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Re: Feds want tolower alcohol limits for drivers, from .08, to .05.
« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2013, 12:51:56 AM »
  As I said earlier, I am a tea-totaler and it won't effect me, but this idea stinks;
 
  I see "follow the money trail" written all over it !
 
    AT 0.05..now I'll hav eto be concerned if I have an ice cream cone labelled... " Creme  De Menthe"  or pass by a bar with an open door!   ;) ;D
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Oldshooter

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Re: Feds want tolower alcohol limits for drivers, from .08, to .05.
« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2013, 03:22:45 AM »
I heard a radio show yesterday that said a small woman(120 #) drinking on drink in an hour will be breaking the law to drive. A man, it will take two.
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Offline rkeltner

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Re: Feds want tolower alcohol limits for drivers, from .08, to .05.
« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2013, 03:25:48 AM »
I have seen some literature that the goal is o.o%! the problem exists that below a certain percentage, you can be found legally drunk after using a mouthwash, just from the residual alcohol! this is absolutely a control, not a drunkenness issue. the hidden goal, I believe is to get as many people as possible classified as parolees, thus making them subject to micro-scrutiny by the constabulary, not to mention, ineligible for firearms ownership and carry! in the past, MADD also had close ties to some gun control groups. wouldn't be surprised if that has expanded

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Feds want tolower alcohol limits for drivers, from .08, to .05.
« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2013, 03:27:49 AM »
The States should lower the limits . No one should drink alcohol and drive. Really it should not be an issue it only is because of selfish people . As far as I'm concerned if you get one DUI you should be banned from driving for ever.
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Offline Oldshooter

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Re: Feds want tolower alcohol limits for drivers, from .08, to .05.
« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2013, 03:40:29 AM »
Quote
MADD was formed by Candy Lightner (later to quit the organization in disgust and become a spokesperson for the liquor industry).

Didn't know that before.
 
 
Quote

MADD is not behind The National Transportation Safety Board's recommendation to reduce the legal limit from the current .08% to .05%.
Critics say that is too low and equals just a couple of beers for the average sized man.

MADD says it would prefer to see tougher enforcement of current DWI laws and wider use of ignition interlocks for convicted drunk drivers.
The board can only make recommendations, not laws or regulations, to states and the federal government.Reduce DWI from .08% to .05%? MADD says there are better ways


Hard to believe. But actually makes some sense.
 
A good business to open up should this happen would be a tow truck cab combination, pick up the driver and the car.  ;)
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