Obama calls on Preachers to help disarm Americans

[nw_hunter]

Obama wants  Pastors to help him disarm Americans.At a meeting held by V.P. Biden there were many influential Christian and other denominational leaders in attendance. One in particular that should be ashamed of himself is Franklin Graham.As a former member......I'm ashamed and disgusted with the Southern Baptist Association. I thank God we still have Christians like Chuck Baldwin still preaching from the pulpit.


http://chuckbaldwinlive.com/home/archives/5642

[Old Syko]

He's gonna have a time convincing at least a couple around here.  In the last few years I've been teaching one how to improve his shooting abilities and another to reload.  I'd like to see him try to convince one of these guys.  The guy is just about as adamant about his guns as his religion.      He honestly gives the term spray and pray a whole new meaning.   

[thxmrgarand]

Perhaps Barack Hussein Obama and Franklin Graham can begin by disarming American Jews.  I don't know very many Jews but those I do know are both energetic and resolved about their need to keep and bear arms.  And in rural communities where they may be a small minority I expect they would have lots of friends who would stand with them to help them keep their guns.

[SHOOTALL]

Guess the part about separation of church and state don't mean much anymore ? I know the idea is abused a lot but in this case the state using the church is what it was about .

[gstewart44]

I grew up in a United Methodist Church family........and posted below is the dogma taken from the UMC website - the reason I left this church and joined a nondemoninational Church where the Pastor is Pro 2nd Amendment and carries!


4. develop advocacy groups within local congregations to advocate for the eventual reduction of the availability of guns in society with a particular emphasis upon handguns, handgun ammunition, assault weapons, automatic weapons, automatic weapon conversion kits, and guns that cannot be detected by traditionally used metal detection devices. These groups can be linked to community-based, state, and national organizations working on gun and violence issues;

[/color]5. support federal legislation in the US Congress to regulate the importation, manufacturing, sale, and possession of guns and ammunition by the general public. Such legislation should include provisions for the registration and licensing of gun purchasers and owners, appropriate background investigation and waiting periods prior to gun purchase, and regulation of subsequent sale;[/size]

[jcn59]

Sometimes I think about the second amendment "shall not be infringed".  I believe it is the only amendment that has that wording.  That tells me that the administration CAN'T make/sign a law that trumps our 2a. rights, but as I peruse the various forums, many of you would obey the illegal laws signed by the administration, even if it meant turning your guns in to the so-called authorities.  That is, many of you would obey the laws over the 2a..   Another way to look at it is you would follow congress and the administration no matter what they did or who they are.

We need a generation who will tell congress and the administration that they have overstepped their authority and we WILL NOT obey their illegal, self-serving laws, no matter what the Supreme Corrupt says.  Where will these Patriots come from?

[gstewart44]

many of you would obey the illegal laws signed by the administration, even if it meant turning your guns in to the so-called authorities.  That is, many of you would obey the laws over the 2a.. 

Excuse me Sir,   are you referring to the MANY brothers and sisters on this Forum?    Me thinks You assume too much.   Please read more threads and absorb the sentiment and feelings espoused......

[Mike in Virginia]

Now wait.  Guns and church.  Doesn't sound like two things that go together.  Even though the preacher at my little church is pro-gun and loves to hunt, I'm not sure I'd want him to take a pro-gun stand in his sermon. 
 
We've talked about this before, and because of the kind of site this is, I'm not in the majority.  I'm actually the only one here that agrees with me.
 
Guns and Christ.  Guns and Heaven.  Guns and the rapture of the church.  Guns and angels.  Guns and meekness.  And on the other side of that coin are:
 
Guns and violence.  Guns and war.  Guns and killing.  Guns and slaughter.  Guns and the holocaust.  Guns and the death of children. 
 
I know, I know.  I sound like a liberal or a religious radical.  I assure you I am neither.  I'm as pro-gun as anyone here, but I'm not at all certain my passion for guns, hunting and shooting are pleasing to Jesus. 
 
I am certain he'd want me to protect His children from harm if their was need.  I'm certain I would not be condemned to hell if I had to use a gun in a legitimate way. 
 
But be it gun, spear, bomb, bow, knife, sword or a rock, I don't believe that a Christian preacher should preach about their use.  Neither should the government.  It's a political right in this nation, and I'd fight and have fought for it, but I don't confuse political rights with those ideals that save my soul.   
 
Also, I don't believe Jesus is pleased with the U.S. as a nation.  He has watched it decline, and in my opinion, is very much displeased.  Lots of political entities have departed from Him and were destroyed.  If God watches wars, if He tends to the outcome of wars like He did so many times in the past, I'm not sure we'd have His protection when we go at it again with the big boys. 

[powderman]

I know personally at least 5 pro gun preachers, one posts a lot of pro gun stuff on facebook and his favorite saying is, well, that dog sure aint gonna hunt. City preachers are another thing altogether. Ol hussein is all for seperation of Church and state unless he can use the Church to further his commie aganda. Hussein is pure evil. POWDERMAN. 

[gstewart44]

Luke 22:Luke 22:35-38uke 22:35-38:Then Jesus asked [his disciples], “When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?” “Nothing,” they answered. He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

[gstewart44]

Those words were over 2000 years ago......the sword was the self defense arm of the day.......

[Mike in Virginia]

Luke 22:Luke 22:35-38

44, I know that verse.  It's often used by pro-gun people.  I don't know what He meant.  I've researched that passage everywhere I could.  In doing so, I don't believe Jesus was advocating violence.  His teaching in so many other scriptures say the opposite.  But it is the "go to" verse for pro-gunners, because they can't find anything else He said about doing harm to others.  Indeed, a sword was the "gun" of those times, and I can't say I know what He meant when he said go and buy one.  Those he told to do so, did not.  They wrote and taught love and meekness. 

I'm not saying we can survive in today's world being meek.  Meekness will get you killed.  To not protect ones self seems a sin in itself.  Still, a preacher can find no meaning in the New Testament to give his congregation concerning the keeping and using of guns. 

The scripture you cited is debated among bible scholars.  I don't pretend to know what it means.  22:35-38:[/font][/color]Then Jesus asked [his disciples], “When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?” “Nothing,” they answered. He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.[/font][/color]

[SharonAnne]

Luke 22:36-38 is pretty clear to me. Have a weapon to defend yourself with if you are accosted. Having a weapon does not mean you are not peaceable. It just means you refuse to have violence done upon you. An armed person tends to be left in peace.

[gstewart44]

Luke 22:36-38 is pretty clear to me. Have a weapon to defend yourself with if you are accosted. Having a weapon does not mean you are not peaceable. It just means you refuse to have violence done upon you. An armed person tends to be left in peace.

+1 SA - that is exactly the point my pastor made.....   Self Defense......   your body is your Temple and you should not allow someone else to harm or destroy it.   


Mike/VA -  you state you do not know the meaning of the passage.    Well I have followed many religious scholars writings on this passage and I do believe as they have surmised that this was meant to prepare the disciples for the time after He was gone.    They would need to protect themselves against evil.    This does not mean to wage war or go on the offense, but rather be prepared if harm cannot be avoided.   


This passage was not written as another parable with hidden meanings in the words.    He meant exactly what he was saying.   

[Mike in Virginia]

44, perhaps you are correct.  I'm certain anything Jesus said was meant to be a guide for all time, forever for His flock.  I can't believe He taught anything that pertained to His time on earth only.  It had to be a statement for then and now. 
 
Maybe we can assume our rights to arms was not even in question when Jesus made those statements.  It's a bit confusing to me. 

[ironglow]

  I searched for a news item related to this report.  I only found it with this Baldwin fellow and the Huff Post.  I hope Baldwin didn't believe the Huff..
  In any case if Graham has endorsed as he is accused of doing, it will cost him and it will hurt.  What makes it hard to believe is .. "What's in it for Graham?"  I really can't see him doing that..He doesn't have to kiss up to Obama; Graham's people are not Leftist/socialists...and they don't like the methods and mindset of those who are.
 
  Until I see something different, I suspect something Graham may have said...has been "twisted and tweaked" more than a little bit..

[SHOOTALL]

Luke 22:36-38 is pretty clear to me. Have a weapon to defend yourself with if you are accosted. Having a weapon does not mean you are not peaceable. It just means you refuse to have violence done upon you. An armed person tends to be left in peace.

Most armed populations are peaceful populations .

[Bravo 51...Over]

I may be wrong but I believe the IRS regulations that allow churches to remain in a tax exempt status forbids the pastors from expressing any potical views from the pulpit.  Doesn't that conflict with this plan of using churches to achieve a political objective?

[ironglow]

I may be wrong but I believe the IRS regulations that allow churches to remain in a tax exempt status forbids the pastors from expressing any potical views from the pulpit.  Doesn't that conflict with this plan of using churches to achieve a political objective?

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  The IRS regulations don't apply to Lefties... we see that from Obama's more recent scandals..

[SharonAnne]

laws and regulations do not apply to the obamanations.  They only apply to those who "cling to their Bibles and their guns"

[cabledad]

I quit a church because of there anti gun stand.

[ironglow]

I quit a church because of there anti gun stand.

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  I would too... especially since it would likely be symptomatic of other deep seated problems within their doctrinal stance.

[Oldshooter]

The Dalilama was here last week and the press tried to get him to speak about gun control because he was in NO when the Mothers Day parade was ambushed.
 
He only said "gun control is in the heart of the man" Good for him. What is the Dalilama buddist?
 
Barry will ask anyone he thinks will do his bidding to speak.  A good preacher would simply say There is Gods law and the law of the land and in this case the law of the land is the second amendment and it shall not be infringed!

[nw_hunter]

  I searched for a news item related to this report.  I only found it with this Baldwin fellow and the Huff Post.  I hope Baldwin didn't believe the Huff..
  In any case if Graham has endorsed as he is accused of doing, it will cost him and it will hurt.  What makes it hard to believe is .. "What's in it for Graham?"  I really can't see him doing that..He doesn't have to kiss up to Obama; Graham's people are not Leftist/socialists...and they don't like the methods and mindset of those who are.
 
  Until I see something different, I suspect something Graham may have said...has been "twisted and tweaked" more than a little bit..

Truth can hurt, and sometimes it's hard for some to accept.This is something he said.I know a lot of people wish he had never said it, but it's a known and accepted fact by most    I always had respect for his Dad. Didn't always agree with his personal views, but as an evangelist I think he did a great job of winning people to Christ. Sometimes to get to the heart of a story, we have to look to other sources other than Fox , MSNBC or any other main stream media  There are several other sites that carried the story. Common sense tells me that Graham would be screaming to high Heaven if they had miss quoted him or just outright lied.
It's not a matter of (IF) he endorsed! My question would be why.


This Baldwin fellow is the same fellow who was a Constitution Party presidential Candidate endorsed by then Republican Congressman Ron Paul. He is also a Baptist Preacher who graduated from Falwell's School in Lynchburg, Va. Someone who keeps up with politics like you do surely knows Baldwin As far as the what's in it for Graham question..........We would have to ask him.
I hope this will shed some light on it for you.
http://swampland.time.com/2013/03/13/franklin-graham-backs-universal-background-checks/
http://www.npr.org/2012/12/19/167649305/southern-baptist-leader-gun-free-zones-are-a-fantasy

[thxmrgarand]

I changed eye doctors, even though the fellow is a shooter, a good fellow and great ophthalmologist, because the hospital campus where he operates put up signs that say no guns allowed in the area (in violation of state law I think).  For me, guns are a civil rights issue.  I find any anti-gun position to be offensive.  If any church in my state takes an anti-gun position I will be calling legislators and the governor asking that the exemption from local property taxes provided in state law be removed.  Even if I failed, it would cost the churches time and money to fight it and therefore they would be distracted from opposing us in the gun issue.

[Soilman]

One question:
Considering the persuasions of those in political power in the U.S. now, and likely for the forseeable future, how long do you think you would be allowed to practice Christianity without the citizens rights to own guns?
 
Do you realize that the current adminstration is trying to eliminate ALL clergy (chaplins)  from our military?
 
Remember why most folks came to the Americas to begin with?  Religious freedom
What did it take to maintain that, and other rights?  Guns.
 

[Flash]

Sometimes I think about the second amendment "shall not be infringed".  I believe it is the only amendment that has that wording.  That tells me that the administration CAN'T make/sign a law that trumps our 2a. rights, but as I peruse the various forums, many of you would obey the illegal laws signed by the administration, even if it meant turning your guns in to the so-called authorities.  That is, many of you would obey the laws over the 2a..   Another way to look at it is you would follow congress and the administration no matter what they did or who they are.

We need a generation who will tell congress and the administration that they have overstepped their authority and we WILL NOT obey their illegal, self-serving laws, no matter what the Supreme Corrupt says.  Where will these Patriots come from?

Right you are!!! Belly up like children holding on to their keyboards

[SharonAnne]

perhaps I am of the last generation who says "Hell NO!".  I will go down shooting before I turn over my guns.

Sure getting shot hurts (been there, done that) and it sucks.

 It is better to die standing than live on my knees!