Wesson and Harrington - Cost Effective Sights?

[flmason]

Well... there was this Wesson and Harrington sitting there... looking basically unfired but with one scratch on the stock... nick or two in the metal...and it sort followed me home, LOL!

 Didn't have the guns sock or case...

But it's also unfussed with enough that it looks like sights or a scope were never mounted on it.

The Smith sight, at 150 to 200 is way out of line, could do a low end scope for not to much more, but seems optics short of one of those long tube scopes would be out of character.

Any suggestions on inexpensive iron sights that fit?

To be honest, if I had any sort of tooling around these days, I'm sure I could make reasonable sights for it. Say the leaf spring type.

But thought I'd ask around, see what other folks are doing.

Anyone know about when a serial in the 710,000 range was made?

[quickdtoo]

Lots of fellas using Krag sights on them, usually available on ebay, I've got a Williams FP-TK on my 45-120 BC, works fine for target work. Wesson & Harrington BCs were made 1995-2001, even H&R doesn't know what specific year a WH frame was made, they have no record of them and they won't fit barrels to the frames since the serial number doesn't start with N or H, the build records were apparently lost prior to or during the move from Gardner to Ilion in 2008. 

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,174403.msg1098823361.html#msg1098823361

[flmason]

Lots of fellas using Krag sights on them, usually available on ebay, I've got a Williams FP-TK on my 45-120 BC, works fine for target work. Wesson & Harrington BCs were made 1995-2001, even H&R doesn't know what specific year a WH frame was made, they have no record of them and they won't fit barrels to the frames since the serial number doesn't start with N or H, the build records were apparently lost prior to or during the move from Gardner to Ilion in 2008. 

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,174403.msg1098823361.html#msg1098823361

Leave it to me to pick the most non-standard Handi in existence. LOL!

So is it just me or is the rifling so shallow on all of them that it looks almost printed on?

[quickdtoo]

They're all like that, all seven of mine are anyway. 

Tim

[flmason]

They're all like that, all seven of mine are anyway. 

Tim

Seven Buffalo Classics? Really?

[quickdtoo]

Seven modern H&R 45-70s, 3 BCs, an SS Ultra Hunter, 2 Handis and a Talo Trapper, all have shallow rifling.

Tim

[flmason]

Seven modern H&R 45-70s, 3 BCs, an SS Ultra Hunter, 2 Handis and a Talo Trapper, all have shallow rifling.

Tim

Any tips on reloading with cast bullets for the 45-70's?  Hardness, best weight, velocity range, etc?

Have to admit, just got an M77 but am more attracted to this rifle for no good technical reason. When in to pick up the M77 and decided the BC was coming home too.

I was leaning toward ording the Lee 405-HB mold or the 500-3R and using Unique, 2400, 4198 or 4895 in it. Leaning towards the Unique and 2400 as I'm not out to exceed Trapdoor velocities really. Especially since I plan to cast for it and am wanting to avoid gas checks, paper patching and such.

All I can say is it just felt like the right gun in hand.

I will say I've changed my mind on extractor vrs. ejector now that I know how they work. Would rather positive extraction than spring loaded ejection.

Anyway, haven't shot it yet but it gives me a grin.

[quickdtoo]

Best I can recommend is to load cast bullets as big as you can chamber, one sized to just fit in a  fireformed case prior to resizing, that gives you the size the chamber neck will handler, .460" fit fine in mine, haven't shot em yet, but they chamber just fine, have a batch of 405gr from Western to shoot in the Trapper next range trip. Bernie shoots the Lee 500r in his BC, lots like the Lee 405gr HB.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,239294.msg1099362484.html#msg1099362484

[flmason]

Best I can recommend is to load cast bullets as big as you can chamber, one sized to just fit in a  fireformed case prior to resizing, that gives you the size the chamber neck will handler, .460" fit fine in mine, haven't shot em yet, but they chamber just fine, have a batch of 405gr from Western to shoot in the Trapper next range trip. Bernie shoots the Lee 500r in his BC, lots like the Lee 405gr HB.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,239294.msg1099362484.html#msg1099362484

That's an interesting approach to selecting bullet size. Hadn't heard that one before.

Yes, I hope to pick up the Lee 405HB, 500R and something lighter eventually, as well as RB. Seems to be a really flexible cartridge in terms of bullet weight, but less so in terms of flat shooting options until you get to really modern velocities.

[gcrank1]

And that is not a new methodology on choosing the 'right size' bullet either; the Cast Bullet Assoc., among others, has been recommending it for years.
It WORKS.
My H&R Ultra Hunter shoots the 340gr. and 405 gr. Lee bullets quite well, as does my 1886 Mdl of the '73 Springfield and the Siamese Mauser 45-70 conversion sporter (though it is throated for at least long 500gr.'ers. I can verify that the 500s will go through a pound of lead surprising fast and they wump on both ends. That 340 is a fine plinkin', funnin' hunting bullet for about any normal, non-dangerous North American game. It is hard to make a 'bad' load for a 45-70 if your bullet is the right dia. for the all important throat.
You can buy the 'basic' type rear peep sights from our fine custom suppliers or the factory type Williams (see the FAQs) and for all-round and field use a Rem. 700 ramp/blade combo pretty cheap. Or, get a ramp and use it to mount your bead, fire-sight or globe of choice.

[flmason]

And that is not a new methodology on choosing the 'right size' bullet either; the Cast Bullet Assoc., among others, has been recommending it for years.
It WORKS.
My H&R Ultra Hunter shoots the 340gr. and 405 gr. Lee bullets quite well, as does my 1886 Mdl of the '73 Springfield and the Siamese Mauser 45-70 conversion sporter (though it is throated for at least long 500gr.'ers. I can verify that the 500s will go through a pound of lead surprising fast and they wump on both ends. That 340 is a fine plinkin', funnin' hunting bullet for about any normal, non-dangerous North American game. It is hard to make a 'bad' load for a 45-70 if your bullet is the right dia. for the all important throat.
You can buy the 'basic' type rear peep sights from our fine custom suppliers or the factory type Williams (see the FAQs) and for all-round and field use a Rem. 700 ramp/blade combo pretty cheap. Or, get a ramp and use it to mount your bead, fire-sight or globe of choice.

I'm thinking of holding off until I have a decent work space again and trying to fabricate something maybe. Seems like an interesting challenge. Wanted to do flintlock from scratch, but at the rate I'm going, I don't think I'll ever get to it. Just wishful thinking.

An easy method to fabricate an easy to change windage and elevation rear sight does escape me though. I can think of lots of ways to do it, but none that are as likely to be as refined as commercial offerings or salvaged antiques.

Is there some theory on how tall a front sight and rear sight should be?

I mean, clearly, some calculation of drop and some angles should make it not to hard to figure out on paper... but am curious if there are rules of thumb I've just never heard?

[gcrank1]

Basic is that the front sight cant be higher horizontally (using the bore-line, not the barrel exterior) than the center of the rear peep or top of an open sight due to trajectory being a parabola.
Depending upon the ballistics of the cartridge used and the distance you want to shoot at the final height varies considerably, but ya gotta start someplace. A bore sight at 25-50yd and cut&try front mock-up sight will get you a usable test and measurement to work from. After that use can use 'the chart' for height changes at a given barrel length, but I recommend you stay with an initial rear sight setting at no more than 1/3 up, and I like about 1/4 (if I set it there and -0- I will need more elevation in the future, rather than less).

[quickdtoo]

There are at least a couple sight height calculator links in the FAQs Peep and Firesights.

Tim