Author Topic: Another point of view about breaking in a barrel (Read 1871 times)

black lab · « **on:** May 17, 2013, 05:46:07 PM »

I've read in the FAQ about breaking in barrels. I've never done it and always felt bothered by it every time I see it. Tonight I came across a article about this subject and thought I would post it. I know a number of people here claim it's the only way to go, but there is two sides to a coin. Maybe have a look at the other side. Some very knowledgeable people discussing barrel break in. http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/Barrel_BreakIn.asp

Itsricmo · « **Reply #1 on:** May 17, 2013, 06:34:26 PM »

Personally, I have never really had a "break in" period for any firearm I owned... I used it as an excuse on my Smoothbore 12 gauge but the Mrs. caught on rather quick lol.. I never noticed any serious difference in performance of rifles comparing mine to my Fathers or Grand Fathers who swear by a "break in" period.

cudatruck · « **Reply #2 on:** May 17, 2013, 06:46:03 PM »

I break in my barrels by putting high speed copper coated lead through them.

HWB13 · « **Reply #3 on:** May 18, 2013, 01:52:28 PM »

I am kind of a mixed bag on the subject. I normally I just shot. Most of my new rifles I take a couple of function / familiarization shots and then start the sight in process. Although on my new 22-250 Ultra Varmint I did fire lap the barrel. Figured it could hurt after the cost of the brake and installation. Look to the left. (Almost as much as the gun) 3 shot at 220grit, clean, 3 shots at 320, clean 5 shots at 400, clean. Next 3 shot group was ½ MOA. Could have been better but was dealing with a tight forend, wasn’t really focused. Don’t shoot enough, unfortunately, to get most of them out of break in if I used 100 round break in period. But in defense of the long break in I have noticed with my 22 Hornet UV that groups got much tighter the more I shot it. But it was also after the UV conversion. Another one I noticed the improvement on ,the more it was shot, was my DPMS Sweet 16. Have only had one rifle that would never give me the accuracy I expected. Never really been a round counter and don’t think I’ll start now.

squirrelslayer · « **Reply #4 on:** May 18, 2013, 02:42:28 PM »

I always try to because I have plenty of range time and ammo and I enjoy it. I don't preach it by any means but just figure that I'd rather waste my time doing it instead of wasting a barrel by not doing it.I will admit I normally don't do it on cheap rifles that I don't expect much out of though. I do get some weird looks at the range when firing a rifle with no sights or scope and never taking it out of the rest.

sr sawyer · « **Reply #5 on:** May 18, 2013, 04:58:06 PM »

Very interesting. Is Gale McMillan the same McMillan as in stocks and custom guns?

Ken

PineyCreek22 · « **Reply #6 on:** May 18, 2013, 05:00:56 PM »

I believe that the best way to achieve the maximum potential accuracy from a rifle barrel is to break it in. This is done in one of 3 different ways. Lap it, shoot and clean min of 10 rounds, or just shoot after cleaning out of the box. Logic behind the procedure is to smooth out the tears and burrs on the edges of the lands and the chatter marks that are at 90 deg. to the axis of the bore. These are created when the barrel is rifled after and during boring and reaming. Lapping achieves this the fastest and provides IMHO the most accurate barrel. The other two are just ho-hum. I believe there is a reason Shilen offers hand lapping of their already fine barrels. I am not a big fan of fire lapping. Regards, Piney Creek

quickdtoo · « **Reply #7 on:** May 18, 2013, 05:57:23 PM »

H&R barrels are button rifled, generally smoother out of the box than cut rifled barrels, I have a bunch(dozens) of Handi barrels that are almost mirror like right from the factory, so I don't generally bother with any break-in, some aren't so nice looking and will get a good polishing with flitz/JB on a bore mop. OTOH the custom rebores that I've had done that are cut rifled usually need a little break-in shooting(shoot/clean/shoot) as well as the lapping process first to help smooth them up.

Tim

http://www.border-barrels.com/articles/bmart.htm

http://www.6mmbr.com/barrelfaq.html#24638

Quote

Which is Better, Button Rifling or Cut Rifling? There is no clearly superior form of rifling. Check the results from major benchrest matches and you will see both cut-rifled Kriegers, and button-rifled Harts, Liljas, and Shilens among the trophy-winners. David Tubb has dominated cross-course and high-power shooting with Schneider pull-buttoned barrels, but Kriegers are favored by many Palma shooters and members of the USA F-class team. Button rifling can produce a very smooth interior finish, and the majority of winning 6PPC barrels are buttoned. On the other hand, many shooters believe cut-rifled barrels last a bit longer. By the nature of the manufacturing process, cut-rifling puts fewer stresses in the steel and twist rate is more likely to be uniform. Additionally, a cut-rifled barrel can be fluted before the bore is rifled. On buttoned barrels, fluting must be done after the bore is rifled and stress-relieved, so there's a chance stresses from profiling/fluting can alter the bore. The only possible issues we've heard with cut-rifled barrels, particularly Kriegers, is that the high, sharp lands can be tough on 6.5mm J4 jacketed bullets, such as the Clinch Rivers and JLKs, when they are driven above 2950fps in an 8-twist barrel.

Sourdough · « **Reply #8 on:** May 18, 2013, 08:40:38 PM »

Been told by more than one Competitive Shooter that barrel break-in was a myth. Either the barrel shoots good or it does not. I've never done a break-in on any gun. I just take them out and shoot them.

squirrelslayer · « **Reply #9 on:** May 18, 2013, 08:43:22 PM »

Aren't most stainless barrels hand lapped or at least lapped after machining? Also, David Tubb had a really neat kit of progressively finer "bore polishing" bullets that saved my bacon once on one of my savage bolt action builds. Cheap barrel and it didn't shoot much better than just over 1 moa and after that kit and alot of cleaning I got it down to just under 3/4. The bore surface has a great significance on fouling therefore accuracy.

OldSchoolRanger · « **Reply #10 on:** May 19, 2013, 06:35:23 AM »

MY barrel break in is easy. Just clean the barrel when you first get it, then shoot a lot. You'll find the barrel settles in, and gets more accurate, the more you shoot it. Or is it that you get better, the more you shoot.

Sourdough · « **Reply #11 on:** May 19, 2013, 08:28:25 AM »

My buddy Norm and I bought new Weatherby Accumarks. He went through this long tedious barrel break-in period. Swabbing between each shot, then a good cleaning with a copper fouling cleaner, after 10 shots. Me I just shot mine, cleaned it, and put it away. Today I'll hit 5 out of 5 gallon jugs at 800 yards. Norm will hit 3 to 4 out of 5. With my Handi 25-06, I'm 5 for 5 at 600 yards. Same thing I just shoot it.

YRUpunting? · « **Reply #12 on:** May 19, 2013, 09:12:49 AM »

I've come to the conclusion some people cannot deal with simplicity. What ever they do has to be unique, elaborate, or have some level of drama attached. They need a long series of steps to do something, which they can discuss and explain the importance of each and every step. The ritual of process is what is important.

PineyCreek22 · « **Reply #13 on:** May 19, 2013, 09:31:58 AM »

It's a ZEN thing YRU. PC

squirrelslayer · « **Reply #14 on:** May 19, 2013, 10:25:28 AM »

I think YRU might be on to something...

mauser98us · « **Reply #15 on:** May 19, 2013, 11:02:14 AM »

I usually lob a hundred or so rounds down the tube with cast bullets and call it a day. Amazing the power of lead to make it shine like chrome.I shoot a lot of cast anyway,rifles and handguns.Pretty much reserve jacketed for hunting when I am lucky enough to draw a permit.

geezerbiker · « **Reply #16 on:** May 19, 2013, 11:17:31 AM »

I really think you hit the nail on the head here... I too just shoot them and clean them when they look dirty. I clean with Ed's Red so copper build up isn't as much of a problem...

I don't expect to ever load any jacketed bullets in my .45-70 so copper fouling isn't even a concern. I wonder if paper patching would help with barrel break in but I think it would help with removing copper fouling. Unfortunately I've never managed to figure it out.

Tony

Quote from: YRUpunting? on May 19, 2013, 09:12:49 AM

I've come to the conclusion some people cannot deal with simplicity. What ever they do has to be unique, elaborate, or have some level of drama attached. They need a long series of steps to do something, which they can discuss and explain the importance of each and every step. The ritual of process is what is important.

FPH · « **Reply #17 on:** May 19, 2013, 11:20:55 AM »

I've never "broken" a barrel in,and I tend to be anal about such things. That being said, I have three absolute tack divers.

Ol BW · « **Reply #18 on:** May 19, 2013, 02:29:51 PM »

My experience has been more the rifle breaking me in rather than me breaking the rifle in. I know that when I bought my 30-06 Handi new, it did copper foul a lot, which I cleaned out with Hoppe's Benchrest after every range session. It always shot good. Can't say that the cleaning regimen was what made it shoot better or my learning curve, as this was the first high-powered rifle I ever shot.

Now, I have bought used guns that didn't shoot well at first, but that shot much better after I cleaned the copper fouling out.

The only other new rifle I ever bought ( a Handi 7.62x39) shot great out of the box also!

BW

Swampman · « **Reply #19 on:** May 19, 2013, 03:06:35 PM »

Barrel break in is a waste of time and ammo. It does nothing except wear out the barrel.

MulberryRiverBoy · « **Reply #20 on:** May 19, 2013, 06:06:05 PM »

OMG, I totally agree with Swampman. This has never, ever happened before!

Signed,

Worried.

geezerbiker · « **Reply #21 on:** May 19, 2013, 07:23:34 PM »

I don't think target shooting is ever a waste of ammo. At worst it's a stress reliever. I can't remember not leaving the range without a big smile...

I do think extra cleaning between shots is a wasted effort and would detract from the fun of a range trip...

Tony

petemi · « **Reply #22 on:** May 20, 2013, 03:58:58 AM »

Yeah, me too. I agree wid ya Swampy. I don't do squaddly crap on any of them. I get the factory junk out with a patch or two and shoot fast jacketed bullets. All my Handis were done with this total lack of respect.....if anyone wants to come up and see it their fire lapped, super cleaned, lapped etc. etc. barrels can outshoot mine...y'all come. I think I'm gonna coin a new motto "Dirt is Wonderful".

Pete

gcrank1 · « **Reply #23 on:** May 20, 2013, 10:03:38 AM »

Once a barrel, or an engine, is 'broke in' it starts 'wearing out'. Either, as a mechanical device, has a lifespan.
I'll take the extra rounds and learning fun leading up to 'broke in' rather than use an artificial means to eliminate them and hurry toward the end.

Ol BW · « **Reply #24 on:** May 20, 2013, 01:00:09 PM »

I think Gcrank has a point. Isn't a break in period for anything mechanical really a process of wear anyway? Technically aren't you starting the wearing out process with the first bullet?

If it ain't broke....

OOOH! MY BRAIN IS CRAMPING FROM THINKING TOO HARD!!

BW

gcrank1 · « **Reply #25 on:** May 20, 2013, 01:38:40 PM »

You got it, BW

Now uncramp your brain an' have some fun

YRUpunting? · « **Reply #26 on:** May 20, 2013, 01:57:51 PM »

The only barrel I've ever seen that was "worn out" was on a 1957 Winchester Model 70 in 220 swift that was shot at max loads at ground hogs. The owner had every intention of shooting it at max loads until the barrel needed to be replaced. He killed A LOT of ground hogs with it back in 60's and 70's. And had many barrels put on that wonderful old rifle.

Brain is currently fitting one of my receivers with a 223 Superlight barrel. Total cost is going to be around $170. For $170 you old farts should be shooting the crap out of your Handi's with your kids, grand kids, and anyone else you can find to shoot with.

If Sourdough hasn't worn out his 30.06 you aren't EVER going to wear out a barrel. If by chance you do Brain will set you up with a bright shiny new one.

PineyCreek22 · « **Reply #27 on:** May 20, 2013, 03:23:30 PM »

Attached are photos of sections of a "premium" aftermarket barrel. One has been lapped and one has not. Draw your own conclusions. Piney Creek

black lab · « **Reply #28 on:** May 23, 2013, 02:26:13 PM »

Some very interesting discussions. Personally I haven't made up my mind if breaking in a barrel is a good thing or a waste of time. I read on the Barnes site that they recommend breaking in a barrel, So I don't know. I can't see myself doing it, for one I don't have time and I haven't seen proof that it helps. It may, I guess it depends on the condition of your barrel. The thing that bothered me was that there is several posts in the FAQ that implied that it was "The Thing To Do" That sort of thing could lead someone new to shooting, to believe they must do that to have a good shooting gun. Just my 2 cents

gcrank1 · « **Reply #29 on:** May 23, 2013, 05:19:18 PM »

I guess it comes down to what is acceptable accuracy for you. For instance, I clean a 'new' to me gun and shoot it, if it shoots OK I dont get wrapped up into a twist because I didnt 'break it in'. If, after messing about with one that is troublesome, I couldnt get acceptable accuracy then perhaps Id consider trying some of those methods.; havent had to yet. BTW, FWIW, I am kinda OC too....
Maybe Im lucky or easy, either way, it works for me; YMMV.