Powder Coating Cast Bullets

[flmason]

Tripped over the idea of powder coated cast bullets. Seems like a neat idea.

I'm also wondering about alternatives like:

1) Since it's basically Poly, could just some normal clear poly liquid coating be used?

2) Would just coating the base of a GC design by filling the GC relief be effective? I.e. a poly gas check?

Your thoughts?

[leadman]

I experimented with powder coating cast bullets. It works but is a pain to set-up the bullets since an electrical contact has to be maintained with the bullet. Bullets had to be free of any dirt or oils, even the oils from your bare hands would be enough to not allow the paint to adhere properly.
As far as shooting they did well, especially in the revolvers and semi-autos. I had great accuracy in the 30-06 up to about 1,800 fps but never tried it faster than that.
It was slow and messy.

[Lloyd Smale]

seems like lots of work to cure a problem that doesnt exist. But i guess i too have played around with stuff that didnt make sense just out of boredom

[mdi]

FYI; There are three or four very extensive threads on coating with powder "paint" and other substances over at Castboolits.com in the lube section.

[flmason]

FYI; There are three or four very extensive threads on coating with powder "paint" and other substances over at Castboolits.com in the lube section.

Was going through those... there was so much there... I wasn't sure what the final verdict was!

[flmason]

seems like lots of work to cure a problem that doesnt exist. But i guess i too have played around with stuff that didnt make sense just out of boredom

I guess. It looked like an attractive, if difficult, method to get jacketed velocity out of cast bullets. Hopefully without a lot of worry about alloy. I guess the idea would be able to do what paper patching claims you can do... jacketed velocity with soft lead.

Apparently it's all the rage over in Australia, for what that's worth.

If I could settle on some paper I believed was without clay and such, I'd probably try what I saw one poster do over on castbullets... just make gas checks from paper stock that fit to a GC shanked bullet. That looked like a nice compromise that uses standard molds.

Like a lot of projects I'm waiting to do, seems like making copper checks from scratch would be good too. "Someday" I hope to tinker with making up the tooling to do it. I mean it's basically a hole punch, a forming punch and a die. The only real question in my mind there is the dimensions really.

[Ranger99]

a tube of liquid alox works great
and goes a long way.

[mdi]

I have been powder coating some bullets for a few weeks. I DT, dry tumble clean bullets in a small container with powder and set them on alum foil and bake them @ 400 degrees for 20 minutes. Actually powder coating this way is easier than pan lubing, less messy than alox, and way cheaper than a lubersizer. I don't use a gun, don't need a compressor, just dry tumble. I have only coated bullets for my .44 Mag (265 gr. RNFP and a Lee 240 gr TL SWC) some for my .35/.357 (125 gr. RNFP). I loaded them with lead bullet data and so far they seem to shoot fine w/no leading or fouling...

Castboolits.com has a Powder Coating section with many, many threads/posts...

[JustaShooter]

Do you have to do anything to get the powder to adhere to the bullets when you dry tumble them?

[res45]

I've tried the TL PC bullets with fairly good success,warming the bullets slightly but not hot to the touch seem to work just fine but I find the ES gun to do a much better job of coating the bullet more evenly.

I coated a number of different size and caliber bullets a few weeks ago for testing in various way in both plain base and gas check version with the gas check to be left off in some test.  Weather and daylight hours after work is putting a hamper on testing time.

I have previously coated and shot the OD Green 158 gr. SWC bullets in my 357 mags. with excellent results.  There was no difference in accuracy and cleanup was much easier and fairly quick with nothing other than slight powder residue left in the bore.

When I get the chance I plan to do some shoot test in my Us and Russian 30 cal. rifles with various load even up to or near jacketed levels.

[mdi]

Tumbling has worked for me. I make sure the bullets are clean, warm them a little, and stuff the container with bullets/powder in a HF tumbler drum (wedged in with a rag), and tumble for 10-15 minutes, then cook...

[JimP.]

I like what your doing, what is the powder, paint or what, where do you buy it....JimP.

[mdi]

So far, my experience with powder coating is that it's cleaner, easier, and faster than pan lubing and much less messy than tumble lubing. I started with a 2 oz. bag of red powder from a feller on ebay (can't remember his name, but search "powder coating" on ebay and he'll pop up). I have ordered 2, 1 lb. jars of powder coating from Harbor Freight at about $5.00 each, and waiting their delivery. Powder by the Pound is another powder coating equipment supplier https://www.powderbuythepound.com/ .

Powder coating may just "solve a problem that doesn't exist", but it's easy, and works. My wax based bullet lubes ain't going anywhere, PC is just another tool. My daddy always said "a stupid idea that works, ain't stupid". I'll bet some also said smokeless powder just solves a problem that don't exist too...

[WayneS]

To para-phase  two quotes;
1. From the "Dirty Dozen" General, they sure do look preddy, BUT can they fight ?
2. Only ACCURATE cast bullets are interesting

[mdi]

To para-phase  two quotes;
1. From the "Dirty Dozen" General, they sure do look preddy, BUT can they fight ?
2. Only ACCURATE cast bullets are interesting

See fer yerself; extensive thread on PC bullet accuracy...http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?220557-Real-Accuracy-(2-moa-or-less)-with-Coated-Rifle-Bullets-at-1800-fps-or-greater/page4

[Kmrere42]

Saw the thread and have been looking for info across the net.



This is the best that I have found,

http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=84219


Check it out and post your thoughts.
Seems easy enough...  ( Yea, I've said that before..... )




Paul,

[Lloyd Smale]

man I had to chuckle at LLoyd in this one!! I haven't lubesized a bullet in 2 years. I pc EVERYTHING now. Probably the greatest cast bullet advancement ever.

[Matt]

man I had to chuckle at LLoyd in this one!! I haven't lubesized a bullet in 2 years. I pc EVERYTHING now. Probably the greatest cast bullet advancement ever.

Kinda funny how things work out isn't it

[Lloyd Smale]

yup I never thought in a million years you could pry me away from the old school. It was lubsized keith bullets for me. Don't lubesize and shoot more lfns then keiths anymore. Still side with Elmer in his love for 44mags though. Best handgun round EVER and ive owned and shot about all of them. Still have a few thousand lube sized 421429s on the shelf. Some day im going to have to shoot those dirty things

[geezerbiker]

I haven't gotten set up to do this myself but Dinny PC'ed a few handfulls of bullets for my .300 Blackout and I'm sold.  It's one more project I need to get going on....

Tony

[Lloyd Smale]

you wont regret it. Best thing that happened to reloading since dillion.

I haven't gotten set up to do this myself but Dinny PC'ed a few handfulls of bullets for my .300 Blackout and I'm sold.  It's one more project I need to get going on....

Tony

[geezerbiker]

I tend to agree.  From shooting the PC'd bullets I have, it has caused me to completely loose interest in gas checks...

Tony

[Land_Owner]

Replying to an old thread rather than starting a new one. I have been pouring a 22 caliber Bator mold like a fiend.  I have made about 3,500,  weighed, and sorted. It is a gas check boolit that I don't want to gas check. Can I get jacketed velocity with PC'd boolits that also cycle my AR? Going to dive in to PC'ing to find out. Spent all morning on castboolits forum reading and taking notes.  That I have been on this fence since '13 when this thread started, I am behind the curve. Got to start with a toaster oven, some dry powder, ASBB's from my boys, and hardware cloth from Ace HW. Should be fun...even after I made a GALLON of Satan's lube for my lubesizer.

Is sizing a 0.224" booilt really necessary - either before PC'ing, after, or both?

Is the gas check really necessary if PC'ing?

[orerancher]

Replying to an old thread rather than starting a new one. I have been pouring a 22 caliber Bator mold like a fiend.  I have made about 3,500,  weighed, and sorted. It is a gas check boolit that I don't want to gas check. Can I get jacketed velocity with PC'd boolits that also cycle my AR? Going to dive in to PC'ing to find out. Spent all morning on castboolits forum reading and taking notes.  That I have been on this fence since '13 when this thread started, I am behind the curve. Got to start with a toaster oven, some dry powder, ASBB's from my boys, and hardware cloth from Ace HW. Should be fun...even after I made a GALLON of Satan's lube for my lubesizer.

Is sizing a 0.224" booilt really necessary - either before PC'ing, after, or both?

Is the gas check really necessary if PC'ing?

I have Found with that Bullet, Gas Checked works Better in My 22's with PC... Installed after PC. During Sizing...With a NOE Push Through..

As Far as Powder...I think, the Clear that "Smoke" over at Cast Bullets Sells is the Best...

Buy a Silicone Baking Mat for Your oven Tray...WAY Better then Foil...Been Using the Same One for Years...

[Land_Owner]

Good advice. I will need a lot of that as there have been a lot of years since PC's inception and a lot that has been written has been discarded for what works.

[orerancher]

Good advice. I will need a lot of that as there have been a lot of years since PC's inception and a lot that has been written has been discarded for what works.

Lot's of Guys really Overthink PCing...  It's really Simple and Easy and Cheap to do...

I shake and Bake a LOT of Bullets...Never goin back to Any Lube...

I'm Sure You Understand, no Matter what Ya do...With Cast Bullets, FIT IS KING!

[Land_Owner]

Is silicon the new Teflon for non-stick?  This looks almost "perfect" at 11" x 16" with pyramid shaped indents to capture Bator boolits:  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32974296884.html?src=bing&albslr=222362474&isdl=y  I don't know what size Toaster Oven will "pop up", but perhaps those dimensions will help.

I am thinking Shake and Bake is the way to go.  I saw a lot of pictures of results this morning and took notes on what powders and colors worked (then) and what didn't.  Saw some real thin coated and some real thick.  I liked the color choices, particularly a Light Blue from Smokes, but his Clear is perfectly fine.  Affordability, reliability, and in the end accuracy are what matter.  Clear is probably a mite thinner, in terms of tens of thousandths of an inch, than a colored powder with embedded pigment.

Still the itch I need to scratch is sizing before AND after PC'ing.  I am headed down a road with Bator boolits for a pair of 223 Handi-rifle single shots, one Std. bbl the other Bull bbl, hoping one of them will tighten up a lot, say to 1/2 moa at 100 yds and "decent" velocity.  Maybe achievable...I am going to give it my best.  Not sure what height the "bar" should be set in velocity.  I suppose testing will lead me.  A goal though is thought to be a "should have".

In concert with that, I will attempt jacketed bullet velocity and cycling through an AR-15.  There is something to like in shooting a lot for a few pennies per round in expendables of primer and powder, stockpiled well before the runup in price and shortness of supply.  Reloading cases with lead boolits costs me nothing - except time.  The lead was free and I have long since amortized the mold, the pot, the rifles, the cases, and "fixed costs".

[Lloyd Smale]

heres what i do for velocity and accuracy. Gas checks designs will always be more accurate especially at high velocits with the gas check installed. Velocity for leading? Any velocity you use with about any alloy wont lead if pc'd properly. You still have to deal with the fact your shooting a cast bullet. They are softer then copper no matter what the alloy so its still possible to strip through the rifling and that is compounded if your using a faster twist barrel. Its also still possible that the pressures your loading to are to much for the alloy and are deforming (some call bumping up) the bullets and if you are your will never get good accuracy because they will never deform the exact same way each time. So for something like ar15s or 3006 ect at full velocity you need HARD lead. I would use something in the 20bhn range. Either linotype or water dropped bullets. Water dropping is easy with pc. Just have a bucket of water by the oven and drop them right out of the bake into the water. With gas checks you have to keep something else in mind. That is installing them. Some go on a bare bullet tight so if so you have to crimp them on before pc. When i can get away with it i prefer after pc. Ive had some get loose that were on bullets i baked. Some say the pc kind of glues on the check. I dont buy into that. I think what happened is the copper and lead heated up and expanded at different rates and loosened the checks. Nice thing about doing the check after too you dont have to size twice. If you size and install a check and want your bullets say 224 and size to 224 your bullet will end up at least .001 and most likely more then that bigger do to the pc and it might keep them from chambering. So you need to size after pcing anyway. As to accuracy with something like a 223. Its not going to shoot moa. So dont bother trying. What ive found for a sweet spot for high velocity accuracy in my ars is using the same powders i use for full power but using something like the starting loads in the manuals. even less can be better but with an ar i have one thing to consider you dont and thats running the action and locking back on the last round. So what i do is start with a low end book load. If that locks back i try a grain less and keep going till it wont lock back on the last round then going up a grain. Then from there i try going up but rarely does going up give better accuracy.

[Land_Owner]

OK.  Gas check after PC.

I want to get a 1:9 twist bull barrel Handi-rifle to a reasonable accuracy through PC, both with 22 Bator boolits (in hand by the thousands) AND an RCBS 22-55-SP gas check mold, which I bought years ago and have not once heated up.  Somewhere I have another 22 caliber mold that also is out of sight and out of mind.  Twenty-two has not been my favorite caliber - until recently.

Cycling the AR is next.  The AR is inherently accurate and I won't be using it for 100 yd. practice.  Just close order "Repel Boarders" type stuff.  No great need for 1/2 MOA accuracy in that.  Just reliable cycling.

PC puts a coating on the outside of the boolit that adds 0.001" to 0.002" to its diameter.  Why then does the sizing die not scrape the PC off the boolit during sizing?  It would seem shearing off the PC would be "easier" than squeezing the lead from 0.226" to 0.224" in the sizing die.

[Lloyd Smale]

its tougher then you think. it will only come off if done right by a sharp object. Like a bur in your rifling or a bur i your sizing die. Try the hammer test. Take a bullet and place it on an anvil or vise and smash it with a hammer. If done right youll see the none of the coating is flaking or scratched off. If it does you havent cured it right or are using crappy pc paint. The lead your bullet is made of is much softer and compresses just like it would without the coating. Only time ive seen sizing scratch it is when ive used my star. Seems some of the dies have a slight bur where the lube holes are that you dont notice with a conventional non coated bullet. But even that is pretty rare. Sized with a lee die it wont happen period.